Windows 10 Color management

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  1. Posts : 6
    Win 10 Pro 64
       #1

    Windows 10 Color management


    New to forum (Hello, all)
    Did not know where to post this, so I did a search on Color Management and this forum seemed to be the place, so...

    -------------------------------------------------
    I am not asking how to do Win 10 color management. I know how to do it. I'm wondering if my old software is really working or being overridden by Win 10.

    Let me explain.

    I upgraded to Win 10. For CM I use an old Monaco Optix XR DTP94 puck, circa 2006. Even tho the (puck) driver is not signed, I got it installed by putting Win10 into a developer mode.

    I profiled the monitor, created an .ICM file, and set it as the default. Everything is as it should be.

    But here's the kicker. I've researched it and cannot find an answer.

    The app loads an old .exe file, puts it into the startup stream, and supposedly remaps the colors to the ICM file on startup. The old (2006) monocogamma.exe file is in the startup thread and shows as active in Win 10.

    However, because it is so old I am wondering if it is working or needed. In other words, even tho the .exe is being loaded at startup, is it possible that after execution Win 10 comes along and reloads its own profile, overriding what was loaded by the .exe?

    Or perhaps the .exe should be removed from the startup stream. If the .icm profile is still set as default, will win 10 use it and load it with its own startup procedures? Note: the monocagamma.exe file seems to be executing on startup - I see a quick tray window pop up and say so.

    Don't know, and cannot find an answer. Any help would be appreciated.
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  2. Posts : 1,594
    win10 home
       #2

    Has the driver for the Optix been updated since 2006?
    If not,then you might not get it to work correctly,I think it was designed around the Vista era.Also ,gamma was a product of the cathode ray tube years.
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  3. Posts : 6
    Win 10 Pro 64
    Thread Starter
       #3

    joeandmarg0 said:
    Also ,gamma was a product of the cathode ray tube years.
    Incorrect. The app info screens before the actual profiling (calibration) sequence clearly specify LCD which, of course, is what I am profiling. Also, gamma is not limited to old cathode ray tubes. Typical gamma for a windows os is a native value of 2.2, and for a mac os is 1.8. Here is an article for you that will help you better understand the relationship between luminance, gamma, color temp and profiling.
    How to calibrate your monitor | Creative Bloq
    Last edited by TheFineArtPlace; 23 Oct 2020 at 20:26. Reason: used "profiling" which is correct. calibration is not
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  4. Posts : 1,594
    win10 home
       #4

    It is correct for me.My benq fp92 does not have gamma calibration.The Adobe gamma tool does not work on it.
    It's a case of 'agree to disagree'.
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  5. Posts : 5,899
    Win 11 Pro (x64) 22H2
       #5

    joeandmarg0 said:
    It is correct for me.My benq fp92 does not have gamma calibration.The Adobe gamma tool does not work on it.
    It's a case of 'agree to disagree'.
    You're still incorrect and you should look it up > What Is a Monitor's Gamma? A Basic Definition.

    This as well > Is the beauty of a curve decisive for color reproduction? Learning about LCD monitor gamma. Notice the title says LCD, not CRT

    All monitors use gamma and it can be changed.
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  6. Posts : 5,899
    Win 11 Pro (x64) 22H2
       #6

    TheFineArtPlace said:
    I upgraded to Win 10. For CM I use an old Monaco Optix XR DTP94 puck, circa 2006.
    Hi, photographer, photo editor, and printer here. First off, I remember Monaco Optix. Yeah, you really need to upgrade to something more modern as I'm not even sure that company is still exists, or at least is still producing monitor profiling kits. Anyway....

    TheFineArtPlace said:
    But here's the kicker. I've researched it and cannot find an answer.

    The app loads an old .exe file, puts it into the startup stream, and supposedly remaps the colors to the ICM file on startup. The old (2006) monocogamma.exe file is in the startup thread and shows as active in Win 10.

    However, because it is so old I am wondering if it is working or needed. In other words, even tho the .exe is being loaded at startup, is it possible that after execution Win 10 comes along and reloads its own profile, overriding what was loaded by the .exe?
    If the Monaco Optix software is working correctly (or compatibly) with Windows, the profile should show up in Color Management (under Control Panel) under "Profiles"....

    Windows 10 Color management-windows-color-management.png

    Above is my profiled NEC monitor using NEC's monitor calibrating software. In it you can see the monitor profile it created and is using. It should also have the "Use my settings for this device" box checked indicating said profile is used.

    Depending on how off the adjustments between the base settings and the Monaco profile adjustments you "might" notice a color shift when enabling/disabling the check box.

    Let me know if this answered your question or if there's more
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  7. Posts : 6
    Win 10 Pro 64
    Thread Starter
       #7

    Thanks Sygnus21 for the additional links.

    I have thought about this logically and it may be a moot point. The colorimeter works correctly, I am sure about that. It produced an icm file which I have designated as the default.

    If the old monaco icm loader in the startup stream loads the profile, but then is overridden by windows loading a profile, it will probably load the default (same) icm profile which means either way, the correct profile will be loaded.

    On the other hand, if the old monaco profile loader does not correctly load the file, windows will pick up the same icm profile set as the default and load it. No matter what happens, the same default icm profile will be loaded.

    - - - Updated - - -

    sygnus21 said:
    Hi, photographer, photo editor, and printer here. First off, I remember Monaco Optix. Yeah, you really need to upgrade to something more modern as I'm not even sure that company is still exists, or at least is still producing monitor profiling kits. Anyway....



    If the Monaco Optix software is working correctly (or compatibly) with Windows, the profile should show up in Color Management (under Control Panel) under "Profiles"....

    Windows 10 Color management-windows-color-management.png

    Above is my profiled NEC monitor using NEC's monitor calibrating software. In it you can see the monitor profile it created and is using. It should also have the "Use my settings for this device" box checked indicating said profile is used.

    Depending on how off the adjustments between the base settings and the Monaco profile adjustments you "might" notice a color shift when enabling/disabling the check box.

    Let me know if this answered your question or if there's more
    We cross posted.

    Yes, when the monitor was profiled the icm produced did show up in the color management area and, as normal, it had also automatically set that icm files as the default.

    Yes, your post was very helpful. Thanks. The reassurance that it produced the icm, put it into the color management area, AND automatically made it the default gives me confidence things worked as they always have !

    Edit: yes, xrite still exists and is going very strong. However, it appears they are not very active in the end-user product sector. They seem to be very heavy into the industrial and commercial markets.
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  8. Posts : 5,899
    Win 11 Pro (x64) 22H2
       #8

    TheFineArtPlace said:
    We cross posted.

    Yes, when the monitor was profiled the icm produced did show up in the color management area and, as normal, it had also automatically set that icm files as the default.

    Yes, your post was very helpful. Thanks. The reassurance that it produced the icm, put it into the color management area, AND automatically made it the default gives me confidence things worked as they always have !
    Glad I was able to help ease your mind. You might still consider upgrading your calibration software to include the puck as colorimeters do go bad with age.

    Peace 😎
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  9. Posts : 6
    Win 10 Pro 64
    Thread Starter
       #9

    sygnus21 said:
    Glad I was able to help ease your mind. You might still consider upgrading your calibration software to include the puck as colorimeters do go bad with age.

    Peace ��
    Yes, I have been considering a hardware renewal. I've been checking reviews off and on for a long time now. So far, the Spyder X Pro looks promising. If you have any recommendations, I would appreciate them. Thanks again.

    (By the way, and off-topic, does your sig have anything to do with (the astronomical) Cygnus X? Many moons ago I was very deep into astronomy and variable star research. Was just curious.) Cheers.
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  10. Posts : 5,899
    Win 11 Pro (x64) 22H2
       #10

    TheFineArtPlace said:
    (By the way, and off-topic, does your sig have anything to do with (the astronomical) Cygnus X? Many moons ago I was very deep into astronomy and variable star research. Was just curious.) Cheers.
    Yes and no. As a kid I was always interested in space and spaceships. In fact I used to draw spaceships using those shape templates. Anyway, the name's a combination of the constellation and a spacecraft found there (my inner space travels )

    TheFineArtPlace said:
    Yes, I have been considering a hardware renewal. I've been checking reviews off and on for a long time now. So far, the Spyder X Pro looks promising. If you have any recommendations, I would appreciate them. Thanks again.
    I've used both Spyder and am currently using X-Rite's i1Pro - well just the puck since my NEC has it's own calibrating software (SpectraView II). I got X-Rite for the puck because that's the puck used by NEC's spectraView.

    Anyway either brand is good, it just depends on features, price, and use. The "industry standard" is X-Rite, though there's nothing wrong with Spyder (in my opinion). I will note that my calibrations with Spyder tended to produce cooler results where X-Rite seems to produce warmer results. The other observation is I think the X-Rite software is more user friendly than Spyder, but that's "personal preference" speak.

    All that said, if you're just looking for the basic either brand will do you well.

    Good luck.
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