Fast Boot has the devil inside

roy111 · 07 Oct 2017

Using an usb external drive (spinning HD) i have found a issue
with vanishing files:

PC_A and PC_B windows 10 with fast boot active

plug the usb on PC_A and copy some files, turn off PC_A

unplug usb from PC_A, plug in the usb HD on PC_B turn on PC_B: no new files

turning off fast boot restore the normal and expected beavihour (copied files are actually there).

Is this the expected behavior? am i doing something wrong?
It seems to me a very serious issue is this not considered a bug but a fast boot feature?

It would be interesting to see if someone else have the same results step to reproduce:

1 enable fast boot (if not already enabled) and turn off PC_A
2 plug external usb HD
3 turn ON PC_A
3 change drive letter to high, let's say "T"
4 turn OFF PC_A
5 turn ON PC_A
6 copy a couple of files from PC_A to USB "T", file_a and file_b
7 turn OFF PC_A
8 unplug USB "T"
9 enable fast boot (if not already enabled) and turn off PC_B
10 plug USB "T" on PC_B
11 Turn ON PC_B
12 Browse USB "T" no file_a and file_b found

thanks.

cereberus · 07 Oct 2017

roy111 said:

Using an usb external drive (spinning HD) i have found a issue
with vanishing files:

PC_A and PC_B windows 10 with fast boot active

plug the usb on PC_A and copy some files, turn off PC_A

unplug usb from PC_A, plug in the usb HD on PC_B turn on PC_B: no new files

turning off fast boot restore the normal and expected beavihour (copied files are actually there).

Is this the expected behavior? am i doing something wrong?
It seems to me a very serious issue is this not considered a bug but a fast boot feature?

It would be interesting to see if someone else have the same results step to reproduce:

1 enable fast boot (if not already enabled) and turn off PC_A
2 plug external usb HD
3 turn ON PC_A
3 change drive letter to high, let's say "T"
4 turn OFF PC_A
5 turn ON PC_A
6 copy a couple of files from PC_A to USB "T", file_a and file_b
7 turn OFF PC_A
8 unplug USB "T"
9 enable fast boot (if not already enabled) and turn off PC_B
10 plug USB "T" on PC_B
11 Turn ON PC_B
12 Browse USB "T" no file_a and file_b found

thanks.

Are you properly ejecting drive before removing from pc?

roy111 · 07 Oct 2017

cereberus said:

Are you properly ejecting drive before removing from pc?

I turn OFF the PC, then i remove the drive.

cereberus · 07 Oct 2017

roy111 said:

I turn OFF the PC, then i remove the drive.

That does not guarantee usb drive has been properly written to. You should click on usb icon in action centre, and properly reject usb drive first. Failure to do so can leave it in an indeterminate state, and unpredictable behaviour upon reinsertion.

roy111 · 07 Oct 2017

cereberus said:

That does not guarantee usb drive has been properly written to. You should click on usb icon in action centre, and properly reject usb drive first. Failure to do so can leave it in an indeterminate state, and unpredictable behaviour upon reinsertion.

Thanks for your reply but what you say does not make much sense to me (i understand you say file are in an indeterminate state after the PC is turned OFF), that would defeat the purpose of the
"copy" command.

Should i seriously expect that *after* a pc is turned off the files are not copied? Nevertheless what you say is not
the case because the files are *actually copied* (verified on PC without fast boot).

lx07 · 07 Oct 2017

I don't trust it (or hibernation) and always disable both (although upgrades recently have a nasty habit of turning them on again).

This is discussing dual booting with Linux but seems to cover what is happening.

The Fast Startup feature creates an issue because it doesn't shut Windows*8 down completely but switches it to a special hibernation state instead – although it looks like it has been freshly booted when switched back on because all applications have been closed. However, for the Fast Startup feature's hibernation state, Windows*8 will store Windows session information – such as the cache with the current filesystem state of any mounted FAT and NTFS partitions – in a memory image that is restored during Fast Startup.

Linux and Windows 8: Fast Startup puts data at risk - The H Open: News and Features

In your test example you could try restarting PC-A before shutting it down. You should then see the files on the drive when you connect it to PC-B. This is because restart always shuts down fully whereas shutdown (with fast startup enabled) doesn't. This isn't supposed to be a solution of course just for information.

If you want to use fast startup (not that it is particularly faster in my experience) then you need to flush the cache by using safely remove hardware or sync.exe. Easier to just disable the lot of it with powercfg -h off and be done with it.

Nice thread title by the way - it made me smile.

alphanumeric · 07 Oct 2017

What he said.

Files copied to external drives are queued for transfer, they aren't always written immediately. I do believe there is an optimize for fast removal option that will force immediate file transfers etc. Otherwise, you need to eject the drive as mentioned, that also forces all files queued to be written.
Windows Fast Startup puts the PC in a hybrid sleep mode. It's not a full shut down, that's likely why your file transfers don't finish. They are still in the queue. That state is remembered though and they will eventually be copied when you next turn the PC back on.
I have never been a fan of sleep or hibernate and one of the first things I do is disable it. It's been my experience that it causes more issues than it fixes. I have SSD's, so Fast Boot doesn't do anything for me anyway.

alphanumeric · 07 Oct 2017

Just for clarification, are we talking about the BIOS Fast Boot or Windows Fast Startup? I think the latter, just want to make sure we are all on the same page.

cereberus · 07 Oct 2017

roy111 said:

Thanks for your reply but what you say does not make much sense to me (i understand you say file are in an indeterminate state after the PC is turned OFF), that would defeat the purpose of the
"copy" command.

Should i seriously expect that *after* a pc is turned off the files are not copied? Nevertheless what you say is not
the case because the files are *actually copied* (verified on PC without fast boot).

I have many times removed a usb with copied file, but forgot to eject properly first, and put in PC again, and files have not been "finished off". Sometimes you are lucky, and PC will read file, other times it will not.

It is only for external drives that this is required.

Until you can show the issue arises with properly ejected usb drives, you cannot categorically say it is an issue with fast boot. Even if it looks like a fast boot issue, I do not believe this is a common issue - it suggests a problem with your PC. I have certainly never experienced such issues.

ThrashZone · 07 Oct 2017

Hi,
Yes indeed if one does not want fast start in 10 one should also disable bios fast start as well
The only sure way in 10 to disable fast start is through cmd as said already and seems to be applied in that way by the op.
Still after updates it should be confirmed in power options
If it hasn't changed one will not see fast start listed as an option.

In testing win-10 bricked quite a few older hdd's for either an incompatible hdd or incompatible motherboard
Interesting question here about bricking older hdd's :/ - Windows 10 Forums