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  1.    26 Jul 2015 #11
    Join Date : Oct 2014
    Jensen Beach Florida
    Posts : 173
    W-10 Pro Insider Preview
    Thread Starter

    Both my 7 and 8.1 are Retail.
    So what happens if I do the upgrade on both machines and then "install" the 7 or 8 back in a dual boot mode?
    Sounds like a lot of work "for what".
    My laptop with 8.1 is the only one I'd like to have both.
    It's my work machine and I'm in the home small office IT work.
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  2.    26 Jul 2015 #12
    Join Date : Oct 2013
    A Finnish expat in Germany
    Posts : 13,122
    Windows 10 Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by cfourkays View Post
    Right now, I'm dual booting on 2 machines. One on w-7 and the other on W-8. Both 7 and 8 are Pro.
    I'd like to continue this after release.
    Will I have to upgrade in place and then reinstall my 7 and 8.
    I would much prefer to leave my 7 and 8 intact with their existing data and programs and then install 10 with a dual boot config.
    That would require an iso but will it be activated?

    Pete
    If I understand you correctly, you have originally installed Windows 10 as an Insider Preview to two computers, neither of them as an upgrade from a previous version of Windows but instead both a clean install in a dual boot system. If this is the case, Microsoft has made the future of your installations very clear:

    If you opt out from the Windows Insider Program your Windows 10 (both of them) will no longer be activated and valid. However, if you remain as an Insider opting either for the Slow or the Fast Ring, both of your Windows 10 licenses will remain valid and activated.

    In your case your Windows 7 and Windows 8 licenses have nothing to do with your two clean installed Windows 10 installations. They are not needed nor required for your Windows 10 installations to remain active.

    You have absolutely nothing to worry about as long as you stay with both of your Windows 10 installations in the Insider program.

    See this post for more information.

    Kari
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  3.    26 Jul 2015 #13
    Join Date : Oct 2013
    Penns Forrest
    Posts : 3,506
    Win_8.1-Pro, Win_10.1607-Pro, Mint_17.3

    Quote Originally Posted by cfourkays View Post
    Both my 7 and 8.1 are Retail.
    So what happens if I do the upgrade on both machines and then "install" the 7 or 8 back in a dual boot mode?
    Sounds like a lot of work "for what".
    My laptop with 8.1 is the only one I'd like to have both.
    It's my work machine and I'm in the home small office IT work.
    Until you upgrade a qualifying OS the Win10 will be Technical Preview releases, meaning the same risks using pre-production code exist, just as they always have for Insiders. Any ISO you create will be Preview Release ISOs.

    The only way to get production code is to upgrade a qualifying system.

    Kari and I don't see it the same way. We'll all know what reality plays out in a few days, so I suggest waiting a little bit to determine how to prepare for the upgrade. Multi-booting is one of the other BIG questions.

    There won't be an issue multi-booting Win10 production + Win10 Preview, the question is multi-booting the previous Win8.1 (or Win7) with the upgraded production Win10.

    Most members say that will not be possible since the previous OS key is upgraded to grant the use of Win10 ... as with many things, I see it a bit differently - but again, only time will tell.

    I'm not sure what you mean here: Sounds like a lot of work "for what"
    You only want to mutli-boot the Win8.1 laptop and the updrate is automatic. The only 'work' is putting Win8.1 back on the machine because that's what you want to do. A little preparation (Macrium image) can make this very lite duty.

    The "for what" is what I really don't get - if you want Windows 10, you're going to have to do some work. If it's possible to multi-boot the previous OS with Win10 production, you'll have to do a little more work. So the "for what" is to have a system you said you wanted without purchasing Win10 (caveats on multi-booting still apply)

    It would be easier if you could just install Win10 as the 2nd OS ... and you can.
    The catch there is that you'll have to shell out $$$ for Win10.

    Of course you know what that means, right?
    More work to earn the $$$
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  4.    26 Jul 2015 #14
    Join Date : Oct 2013
    A Finnish expat in Germany
    Posts : 13,122
    Windows 10 Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by Slartybart View Post
    Kari and I don't see it the same way.
    True. I base my replies solely on the facts told by Microsoft: Any clean installed and activated Windows 10 will remain valid and activated after the 29th as long as the user does not opt out. Simple, logical, not possible to misunderstand.

    I don't know what your replies are based on.
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  5.    26 Jul 2015 #15
    Join Date : Oct 2013
    A Finnish expat in Germany
    Posts : 13,122
    Windows 10 Pro

    To clarify my previous posts in this thread, here's the same from the official source:

    The crux of it is this:
    • Do you want to continue as a Windows Insider and keep getting preview builds after 7/29?
    • Or do you want to upgrade your Genuine Windows 7 or Windows 8.1 system that has been getting Windows 10 Insider Preview builds to the 7/29 release and stop being an Insider?

    “I want to continue as a Windows Insider!” If you want to continue as a Windows Insider past 7/29 there is nothing you need to do. You’re already opted in and receiving builds in the Fast or Slow ring depending upon your selection. This is prerelease software and is activated with a prerelease key. Each individual build will expire after a time, but you’ll continue to receive new builds so by the time an older prerelease build expires you’ll have received a new one. Since we’re continuing the Windows Insider Program you’ll be able to continue receiving builds and those builds will continue to be activated under the terms of the Windows Insider Program. We provide ISOs for these builds for recovery from any significant problems, but they are still pre-release software. As part of the program we’ll upgrade Insiders to what is for all intents and purposes the same build as what other customers will get on 7/29, but that will be just another build for Insiders, and those who stay in the program will simply get the next build after as well.

    “I want to opt out of the Windows Insider Program on 7/29.” If you decide to opt-out of the program and upgrade to the 7/29 build you will be subject to exactly the same terms and conditions that govern the offer* that was extended to all Genuine Windows 7 and 8.1 customers. This is not a path to attain a license for Windows XP or Windows Vista systems. If your system upgraded from a Genuine Windows 7 or Windows 8.1 license it will remain activated, but if not, you will be required to roll back to your previous OS version or acquire a new Windows 10 license. If you do not roll back or acquire a new license the build will eventually expire.
    (From Upcoming changes to Windows 10 Insider Preview builds [UPDATED 6/22] | Blogging Windows )

    Absolutely clear text, no room for interpretations.

    Kari
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  6.    26 Jul 2015 #16
    Join Date : Oct 2014
    Jensen Beach Florida
    Posts : 173
    W-10 Pro Insider Preview
    Thread Starter

    The "for what" was myself talking to myself about how much need I would have for the dual boot.

    Then what I said in my earlier post applies:

    "So I could just keep using my Insider Windows 10 Pro dual booted with my 7 SP1 or 8.1."



      My ComputerSystem Spec
  7.    26 Jul 2015 #17
    Join Date : Oct 2013
    A Finnish expat in Germany
    Posts : 13,122
    Windows 10 Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by cfourkays View Post
    The "for what" was myself talking to myself about how much need I would have for the dual boot.

    Then what I said in my earlier post applies:

    "So I could just keep using my Insider Windows 10 Pro dual booted with my 7 SP1 or 8.1."

    Yes. Absolutely sure, subject to them being activated. They are activated if you have gradually upgraded from earlier Insider Preview builds to current one.
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  8.    27 Jul 2015 #18
    Join Date : May 2015
    Posts : 112
    Win 7

    Quote Originally Posted by Fafhrd View Post
    Indefinitely - not necessarily forever, but indefinitely is long enough for me!
    I though MS said we can do a clean install after upgrade to Win 10. So if I not wrong, I can restore the backup of the old system to another partition after I do a clean install of Win 10? In this way, I may dual boot Win 10 and the old Win7?
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  9.    27 Jul 2015 #19
    Join Date : Oct 2013
    Penns Forrest
    Posts : 3,506
    Win_8.1-Pro, Win_10.1607-Pro, Mint_17.3

    Quote Originally Posted by Molyy View Post
    I though MS said we can do a clean install after upgrade to Win 10. So if I not wrong, I can restore the backup of the old system to another partition after I do a clean install of Win 10? In this way, I may dual boot Win 10 and the old Win7?
    Yes, MS has stated that an ISO will be available after you upgrade and you will be able to do a clean install using that source. The Win10 FAQs add this " a clean install on the same device"

    Multi-booting: Possibly ... that's one of the outstanding questions. This is a long post - but the short answer is maybe. It really comes down to will both OSes activate.

    You can skip the rest if you just want to read the EULA on your machine.
    Settings > System > About > Read the Microsoft License Terms

    The End User License Agreement that governs the use of Windows has always stated that you can only run one install of Windows on one machine at one time. Retail licenses allow you to transfer the OS to a new machine if you remove the OS from the original machine, OEM licenses do NOT allow transferal-the OS is bound to the machine by the EULA. That's the legalese of Windows.

    Since the 1 year offer is an upgrade, some members feel that the original license (Win7 or Win8.1) is upgraded to grant you the right to run Win10 and cannot be used when that license is activated for Win10. The license is still valid for the previous OS, but it can only be used for one of the OSes at any given time. This line of thinking basically rules out multi-booting the original OS and the upgraded Win10 OS. The device description in the EULA supports that because it defines a separate partition is a device. No matter how you slice it, you cannot run the licensed OS (original & upgraded license) on two devices at the same time.

    The other school of thought is that when you multi-boot, you cannot possibly run the two OSes at the same time ... but that partition as a device clause throws a wrench into that. One member did chat with MS online (Contact support app) and he asked that question "Can I dual boot the original OS and the upgraded Win10?", the agent said yes but one of the OSes might require phone activation. If you add that the EULA states the OS (singular) and Win7, Win8.1, and Win10 are separate OSes (multiple), I think it might still be legally possible to multi-boot.

    Win10 should follow the same rules.


    Notable EULA section:
    2. Installation and Use Rights.
    1. License. The software is licensed, not sold. Under this agreement, we grant you the right to install and run [hl]one instance of the software/[hl] on your device (the licensed device), for use by one person at a time, so long as you comply with all the terms of this agreement. Updating or upgrading from non-genuine software with software from Microsoft or authorized sources does not make your original version or the updated/upgraded version genuine, and in that situation, you do not have a license to use the software.

    2. Device. In this agreement, “device” means a hardware system (whether physical or virtual) with an internal storage device capable of running the software. A hardware partition or blade is considered to be a device.

    3. Restrictions. The manufacturer or installer and Microsoft reserve all rights (such as rights under intellectual property laws) not expressly granted in this agreement. For example, this license does not give you any right to, and you may not:
      1. use or virtualize features of the software separately;
      2. publish, copy (other than the permitted backup copy), rent, lease, or lend the software;
      3. transfer the software (except as permitted by this agreement);
      4. work around any technical restrictions or limitations in the software;
      5. use the software as server software, for commercial hosting, make the software available for simultaneous use by multiple users over a network, install the software on a server and allow users to access it remotely, or install the software on a device for use only by remote users;
      6. reverse engineer, decompile, or disassemble the software, or attempt to do so, except and only to the extent that the foregoing restriction is permitted by applicable law or by licensing terms governing the use of open-source components that may be included with the software; and
      7. when using Internet-based features you may not use those features in any way that could interfere with anyone else’s use of them, or to try to gain access to or use any service, data, account, or network, in an unauthorized manner.

    4. Multi use scenarios.
      1. Multiple versions. If when acquiring the software you were provided with multiple versions (such as 32-bit and 64-bit versions), you may install and activate only one of those versions at a time.
      2. Multiple or pooled connections. Hardware or software you use to multiplex or pool connections, or reduce the number of devices or users that access or use the software, does not reduce the number of licenses you need. You may only use such hardware or software if you have a license for each instance of the software you are using.
      3. Device connections. You may allow up to 20 other devices to access the software installed on the licensed device for the purpose of using the following software features: file services, print services, Internet information services, and Internet connection sharing and telephony services on the licensed device. You may allow any number of devices to access the software on the licensed device to synchronize data between devices. This section does not mean, however, that you have the right to install the software, or use the primary function of the software (other than the features listed in this section), on any of these other devices.
      4. Use in a virtualized environment. This license allows you to install only one instance of the software for use on one device, whether that device is physical or virtual. If you want to use the software on more than one virtual device, you must obtain a separate license for each instance.
      5. Remote access. No more than once every 90 days, you may designate a single user who physically uses the licensed device as the licensed user. The licensed user may access the licensed device from another device using remote access technologies. Other users, at different times, may access the licensed device from another device using remote access technologies, but only on devices separately licensed to run the same or higher edition of this software.
      6. Remote assistance. You may use remote assistance technologies to share an active session without obtaining any additional licenses for the software. Remote assistance allows one user to connect directly to another user’s computer, usually to correct problems.


    5. Backup copy. You may make a single copy of the software for backup purposes, and may also use that backup copy to transfer the software if it was acquired as stand-alone software, as described in Section 4 below.
    I'm not exactly sure what clause d.v. Remote access means
    or what a licensed user is

    Thanks for asking the question, it made me look at the most recent EULA in 10.0.240 - it's interesting that a partition is considered a device in the EULA.
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  10.    27 Jul 2015 #20
    Join Date : Oct 2014
    Posts : 2,505
    W10 Pro + W10 Preview

    Just chipping in with my own experience of dual booting W8.1 and W10 Preview latest two versions on two separate SSD,s both connected in the computer.

    Each update messed up the MBR on both systems.

    Have overcome the problem by hot swopping, one in one out.
      My ComputersSystem Spec

 
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