Windows 10: Retail license W10 upgrade permanent?

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  1.    11 Jul 2015 #41

    Delicieuxz said: View Post
    Very simple to say, but not true. Microsoft cannot void somebody's previous contract unilaterally, there needs to be a very clear agreement - one which would render the upgrade offer from Microsoft as being not an actual upgrade, but an exchange of properties, which would need to be clearly broadcast as such to the person accepting it. Lack of clarity would render the terms of any such ownership exchange void in the eyes of the law.

    When people defend the notion of them having a full lack of ownership and rights regarding their licenses, I wonder this: Why is your interest to claim all natural rights as belonging to Microsoft? Are you working for their legal department? If you are a individual consumer, then there is no benefit to expressing this line of reasoning, just as there is no legal substantiation for it.
    You don't own it you have a license to use it, subject to terms and conditions. Notice what's in bold type.

    This is from the Windows 8.1 EULA, http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/windo...e/default.aspx

    How can I use the software? We do not sell our software or your copy of it – we only license it. Under our license, we grant you the right to install and run that one copy on one computer (the licensed computer), for use by one person at a time, but only if you comply with all the terms of this agreement. Typically, this means you can install one copy of the software on a personal computer and then you can use the software on that computer. The software is not licensed to be used as server software or for commercial hosting, so you may not make the software available for simultaneous use by multiple users over a network. For more information on multiple user scenarios and virtualization, see the Additional Terms.
    May

    What about updating the software? If you install the software covered by this agreement as an update to your existing operating system software, the update replaces the original software that you are updating. You do not retain any rights to the original software after you have updated and you may not continue to use it or transfer it in any way. This agreement governs your rights to use the update software and replaces the agreement for the software from which you updated. After you complete your update, some apps may not migrate or may be incompatible with Windows 8.1 Pro and additional software may be required to play back or record certain types of media, including DVDs.
    Can
    Last edited by alphanumeric; 11 Jul 2015 at 16:00.
      My ComputerSystem Spec


  2. Posts : 167
    Windows 7 Ultimate 64
    Thread Starter
       11 Jul 2015 #42

    Geneo said: View Post
    They wouldn't be redefining the license to use the Windows 7 software I own. This would be a new license for Windows 10 software - it isn't even the same software they are licensing! Don't you get that? I expect they may not be able to take away my licensed rights to Windows 7 - so I could revert and transfer that if I want. But I am confident they could set any terms for the Windows 10 software license.
    Then you would have 2 licenses, and the offer from Microsoft would be that those people who already own a Windows 7 / 8 license would be to receive a complimentary Windows 10 OEM license. That is a position that Microsoft has not taken. Microsoft has instead publicized a free Windows 10 upgrade. What is being upgraded?

    If Microsoft is giving a new license, then people will have two Windows keys: One for their original Windows version (7 or 8), and one for Windows 10.

    This means that people may then Install Windows on one machine with the license that is given them, and also install their original Windows 7 / 8 license on a separate machine, and run two instances of Windows on two machines at one time.


    Why are you thinking that this is the case?
      My ComputerSystem Spec


  3. Posts : 167
    Windows 7 Ultimate 64
    Thread Starter
       11 Jul 2015 #43

    [QUOTE=alphanumeric;276819]You don't own it you have a license to use subject to terms and conditions.

    I've been making this distinction myself: Windows is not owned, but a license to access and use Windows is owned.

    Notice what's in bold type.

    This is from the Windows 8.1 EULA, http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/windo...e/default.aspx

    How can I use the software? We do not sell our software or your copy of it – we only license it. Under our license, we grant you the right to install and run that one copy on one computer (the licensed computer), for use by one person at a time, but only if you comply with all the terms of this agreement. Typically, this means you can install one copy of the software on a personal computer and then you can use the software on that computer. The software is not licensed to be used as server software or for commercial hosting, so you may not make the software available for simultaneous use by multiple users over a network. For more information on multiple user scenarios and virtualization, see the Additional Terms.
    May

    What about updating the software? If you install the software covered by this agreement as an update to your existing operating system software, the update replaces the original software that you are updating. You do not retain any rights to the original software after you have updated and you may not continue to use it or transfer it in any way. This agreement governs your rights to use the update software and replaces the agreement for the software from which you updated. After you complete your update, some apps may not migrate or may be incompatible with Windows 8.1 Pro and additional software may be required to play back or record certain types of media, including DVDs.
    Can
    Then this is what I have been saying: that the license itself is upgraded. If the license is a retail, transferable, one-machine use, then ifs upgraded status is to access Windows 10, rather than Windows 7 or 8, the same still applies to Windows 10. "You may not continue to use it or transfer" the original software, but the definition of the type of license should still apply to the new software that the license is now for, Windows 10, and the now-Windows-10 license should continue to be transferable.

    Retail, transferable -> OEM, non-transferable is a downgrade, and a retail owner would be losing value and power of their license. They would be losing property rights.

    But regarding the Windows 10 upgrade, it has been said that users will be able to revert to their previous OS. I hope that the license registration, which identifies a PC based on hardware and registers that hardware on MS servers, will also allow for dual-booting Windows OS' on the one license.
      My ComputerSystem Spec

  4.    11 Jul 2015 #44

    [QUOTE=Delicieuxz;276884]
    alphanumeric said: View Post
    You don't own it you have a license to use subject to terms and conditions.

    I've been making this distinction myself: Windows is not owned, but a license to access and use Windows is owned.



    Then this is what I have been saying: that the license itself is upgraded. If the license is a retail, transferable, one-machine use, then ifs upgraded status is to access Windows 10, rather than Windows 7 or 8, the same still applies to Windows 10. "You may not continue to use it or transfer" the original software, but the definition of the type of license should still apply to the new software that the license is for. Retail, transferable -> OEM, non-transferable is a downgrade.
    The new license replaces the previous one. And the previous one is null and void. It clearly states that in the section I marked as bold. "replaces the original software that you are updating. You do not retain any rights to the original software after you have updated and you may not continue to use it or transfer it in any way."
      My ComputerSystem Spec

  5.    11 Jul 2015 #45

    [QUOTE=alphanumeric;276886]
    Delicieuxz said: View Post

    The new license replaces the previous one. And the previous one is null and void. It clearly states that in the section I marked as bold. "replaces the original software that you are updating. You do not retain any rights to the original software after you have updated and you may not continue to use it or transfer it in any way."
    wait wat?

    No.

    No.

    NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

    Nah kidding. MS confirmed that people can downgrade to old OS within 30 days. MS won't deactivate, just make it EITHER for 10 or 7/8
      My ComputerSystem Spec

  6.    11 Jul 2015 #46

    Delicieuxz said: View Post
    Then you would have 2 licenses, and the offer from Microsoft would be that those people who already own a Windows 7 / 8 license would be to receive a complimentary Windows 10 OEM license. That is a position that Microsoft has not taken. Microsoft has instead publicized a free Windows 10 upgrade. What is being upgraded?

    If Microsoft is giving a new license, then people will have two Windows keys: One for their original Windows version (7 or 8), and one for Windows 10.

    This means that people may then Install Windows on one machine with the license that is given them, and also install their original Windows 7 / 8 license on a separate machine, and run two instances of Windows on two machines at one time.


    Why are you thinking that this is the case?
    I give up.
      My ComputerSystem Spec

  7.    11 Jul 2015 #47

    [QUOTE=bromanbro;276888]
    alphanumeric said: View Post
    wait wat?

    No.

    No.

    NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

    Nah kidding. MS confirmed that people can downgrade to old OS within 30 days. MS won't deactivate, just make it EITHER for 10 or 7/8
    That is the Windows 8.1 EULA, I quoted it because Delicieuxz has been saying Microsoft can't null and void your previous license and clearly they can. We'll have to wait and see what the Official final Windows 10 EULA says.
      My ComputerSystem Spec


  8. Posts : 167
    Windows 7 Ultimate 64
    Thread Starter
       11 Jul 2015 #48

    [QUOTE=alphanumeric;276886]
    Delicieuxz said: View Post

    The new license replaces the previous one. And the previous one is null and void. It clearly states that in the section I marked as bold. "replaces the original software that you are updating. You do not retain any rights to the original software after you have updated and you may not continue to use it or transfer it in any way."
    All that says is that Windows 10 replaces Windows 7 or 8, and therefore a person cannot use or transfer Windows 7 or 8 anymore. But not that the license changes from transferable to non-transferable for Windows 10.
      My ComputerSystem Spec


  9. Posts : 167
    Windows 7 Ultimate 64
    Thread Starter
       11 Jul 2015 #49

    [QUOTE=alphanumeric;276896]
    bromanbro said: View Post

    That is the Windows 8.1 EULA, I quoted it because Delicieuxz has been saying Microsoft can't null and void your previous license and clearly they can. We'll have to wait and see what the Official final Windows 10 EULA says.
    Microsoft is not unilaterally voiding a person's license in that case - it is an agreement entered into by both parties, and it updates the software which the license refers to. The license, with its key remains the type of license that it is. In the case of that agreement, a person would then be able to use and transfer Windows 8.1 instead of Windows 8, or whatever the license was previously for
      My ComputerSystem Spec

  10.    11 Jul 2015 #50

    Just a thought.. what if MS uses the same license/key that we used for either Win7/Win8 and then you can't activate both OS's at the same time.
      My ComputerSystem Spec


 
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