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  1. Joined : Dec 2013
    Sydney, Nova Scotia, Canada
    Posts : 8,246
    Windows 10 IoT
       11 Jul 2015 #11

    Unless they change the EULA, retail have always been transferable in the past. For what its worth, I upgraded from an OEM Windows 7 to Windows 10 Preview and the Windows 10 key shows as Retail. As far as showkey is concerned anyway. What happens when I upgrade to the final release is anybody's guess. And that's what most are doing as Microsoft hasn't officially released all the details yet.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec


  2. Joined : Sep 2014
    Posts : 92
    64-bit 10240 10 Pro
       11 Jul 2015 #12

    Windows 10 is a brand new ball game. They can change to EULA to read whatever their building full of Lawyers tells them to put in it.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec


  3. Joined : Dec 2013
    Sydney, Nova Scotia, Canada
    Posts : 8,246
    Windows 10 IoT
       11 Jul 2015 #13

    Geneo said: View Post
    I may leave it. It is not a free upgrade to Windows, as the version I have is transferable.

    Will purchased retail versions of Windows 10 be transferrable? If not this is horrible IMO.
    What's the difference if you do the free upgrade and then buy a retail copy for your new PC, versus buying a retail copy installing it on one Pc and then moving it to another PC? It will cost you the same either way. Do the free upgrade and you get 10 on both PC's.
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  4. Joined : Dec 2013
    Sydney, Nova Scotia, Canada
    Posts : 8,246
    Windows 10 IoT
       11 Jul 2015 #14

    If your a pessimist, anything they do is doom and gloom. And it seems free will never be free enough for some people. That's life I guess.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec


  5. Joined : Jan 2014
    Oak Ridge TN, USA
    Posts : 23,939
    Windows 10 Pro x64
       11 Jul 2015 #15

    alphanumeric said: View Post
    If your a pessimist, anything they do is doom and gloom. And it seems free will never be free enough for some people. That's life I guess.
    MS should just have charged in the first place.. some people don't like free I guess.. or just want to have something to complain about.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec


  6. Joined : Jan 2015
    Posts : 167
    Windows 7 Ultimate 64
       11 Jul 2015 #16

    Geneo said: View Post
    That is not what Microsoft is saying I think. Anyhow hopefully we will soon know.
    Well Microsoft cannot unilaterally void your owned retail license. That license, according to its terms upon purchase, is your personal property. After upgrading, it will retain all its original definition - which means transferable but can only be used on one PC at a time.

    OEM keys are meant to be tied to a particular system's hardware, and so the life of the license is equal to "for the lifetime of the device". But in the case of a retail key, the license is good permanently for one machine. If the license has received upgraded status, then it has upgraded status. And if Microsoft provide an upgrade to that license for use with Windows 10, then that upgraded status is the new definition of the personal property which is a retail license, and it is no longer for Microsoft to say whether or not that license may be transferred, because Microsoft does not hold domain over a person's retail license.

    A license purchase is not a rent, or a lease. An owned software license is a personal property - not over the software itself, but over the right to access and use a particular software. Transferable, single-PC use is already the identity and definition of a retail license, and Microsoft cannot take that from a retail license owner, because that license is not Microsoft's to make such unilateral changes over.

    If Microsoft wishes to provide an upgrade to that license, that is Microsoft's call to make. However, it is not in Microsoft's power to amend the terms of the retail license from what they were at the time of their purchase, because, again, that licenses originally-agreed-to rights is the legal property of the purchaser, and not the company who sold those particular rights in a license-agreement.

    An upgrade to that license still preserve's the license-agreement as a right of the purchaser.

    That's the legal reality.
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  7. Joined : Jan 2015
    Posts : 167
    Windows 7 Ultimate 64
       11 Jul 2015 #17

    alphanumeric said: View Post
    If your a pessimist, anything they do is doom and gloom. And it seems free will never be free enough for some people. That's life I guess.
    The upgrade is free - the eligibility for the upgrade, and what it is that is upgraded, was not free. What is upgraded is an existing Windows license. It is for Microsoft to decide that they want to provide a free upgrade (which is to get people using the MS store and make things easier for MS), but it isn't for Microsoft to choose whether the existing licenses that are receiving the upgrade lose any of their authorizing definition.

    For Microsoft to change the usability terms of an existing license, the ownership of the original bought license would first have to revert back to Microsoft and become their property again, with a new license and agreement being then delivered from Microsoft. If a license reverts to Microsoft, that would have to happen through an explicitly clear legal agreement - but then there is no upgrade taking place, and rather a barter, an exchange of one license for another. But who would knowingly exchange their forever-lasting Windows 7 / 8 retail license for a very temporary Windows 10 OEM license? Even just changing the advertising for Microsoft's Windows 10 offer at this point could be worthy of a class-action lawsuit, for people who would get confused and hand over their full retail license under unexpected terms.

    Microsoft doesn't hold the legal authority to claim that a person's license is now their property anymore than a car salesman who sell you a car could unilaterally claim that the car they sold you has once again become their property.

    Therefore, OEM licenses should upgrade and still function as OEM licenses (lasting for the lifetime of the device), while retail licenses continue to function as their purchased agreement stipulated (install on one machine, transferable).

    If some people have been using Windows under the impression that their bought licenses are not actually their property, then that's a misunderstanding on their part. But would they make the same mistake regarding a house they buy, or clothing they buy?
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  8. Joined : Sep 2014
    Posts : 92
    64-bit 10240 10 Pro
       11 Jul 2015 #18

    Delicieuxz said: View Post
    The upgrade is free - the eligibility for the upgrade, and what it is that is upgraded, was not free. What is upgraded is an existing Windows license. It is for Microsoft to decide that they want to provide a free upgrade (which is to get people using the MS store and make things easier for MS), but it isn't for Microsoft to choose whether the existing licenses that are receiving the upgrade lose any of their authorizing definition.

    For Microsoft to change the usability terms of an existing license, the ownership of the original bought license would first have to revert back to Microsoft and become their property again, with a new license and agreement being then delivered from Microsoft. If a license reverts to Microsoft, that would have to happen through an explicitly clear legal agreement - but then there is no upgrade taking place, and rather a barter, an exchange of one license for another.

    Microsoft doesn't hold the legal authority to claim that a person's license is now their property anymore than a car salesman who sell you a car could unilaterally claim that the car they sold you has once again become their property.

    Therefore, OEM licenses should upgrade and still function as OEM licenses (lasting for the lifetime of the device), while retail licenses continue to function as their purchased agreement stipulated (install on one machine, transferable).

    If some people have been using Windows under the impression that their bought licenses are not actually their property, then that's a misunderstanding on their part. But would they make the same mistake regarding a house they buy, or clothing they buy?
    Are you an Attorney? You are posting all of this legal stuff as to what MS can do and can't do. How about posting a source?
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  9. Joined : Jan 2015
    Posts : 167
    Windows 7 Ultimate 64
       11 Jul 2015 #19

    Gary said: View Post
    Are you an Attorney? You are posting all of this legal stuff as to what MS can do and can't do. How about posting a source?
    It's language I deal with often and regularly regarding law to the extent that I know commercial law is not whatever a company decides they want it to be at their arbitrary discretion. An EULA is not law, but an EULA is subject to the law. Also, a software license is a personal property. EULAs can change arbitrarily, but a license purchase is a matter of legal and binding contract, and that cannot change by one side's unilateral action.


    "You are posting all of this legal stuff as to what MS can do and can't do."

    Would you feel the same if someone told you any other item you bought wasn't yours to choose what to do with? Would you respond as if you expected you had no rights to your property (thereby meaning it is not your property at all, and that you have no property) and that someone would have to prove to you that the businesses you bought stuff from weren't your overlords?
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  10. Joined : Sep 2014
    Posts : 92
    64-bit 10240 10 Pro
       11 Jul 2015 #20

    Delicieuxz said: View Post
    It's language I deal with often and regularly, and also regarding law to the extend that I know commercial law is not whatever a company decides they want it to be at their arbitrary discretion. An EULA is not law, but an EULA is subject to the law. Also, a software license is a personal property. EULAs can change arbitrarily, but a license purchase is a matter of legal and binding contract, and that cannot change by one side's unilateral action.


    "You are posting all of this legal stuff as to what MS can do and can't do."



    Would you feel the same if someone told you any other item you bought was yours to choose what to do with? Would you respond as if you expected you had no rights to your property and that someone would have to prove to you that the businesses you bought stuff from weren't your overlords?
    Then I would suspect that you are aware of a RTU?
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