1.    27 Mar 2017 #1

    Windows Sort sequence irritant -- wrong sequence


    Hi there

    when browsing through tagged music files Windows seems to come up with the WRONG sort sequence

    For example if I'm browsing Mozart

    Mozart symphonies /CD 1
    Mozart symphonies /CD 10
    ------- /CD 14
    Mozart symphonies /CD 2
    Mozart symphonies /CD 3


    What I want is for the list to be displayed as /CD 1
    /CD 2 ....../.CD 10 etc.

    Excel also hoses it up too

    any ideas on how to fix this without a whole slew of file / track re-tagging / re-numbering.

    Seems bonkers to have 10-19, 20-29 etc displayed before 2, 3 etc. I don't want to renumber a whole slew of stuff to for example /CD 01 etc to force sequence correction. I've about 1.7 TB worth of tagged music files !!!.

    Cheers
    jimbo
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  2.    27 Mar 2017 #2
    Join Date : Dec 2015
    Posts : 6,015
    Windows10

    It has always been this way - it is called lexicographical sorting ie text is sorted from left to right. No easy way round it without 3rd party apps.

    Basically, sub ten numbers have to be numbered xxxx01, xxxx02 etc ie with a leading zero (or two zeros for sub one hundred if more than one hundred,three if more than 1000 and so on).
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  3.    27 Mar 2017 #3
    Join Date : Apr 2014
    Space coast of Florida
    Posts : 5,347
    Windows 10 Pro X64 16299.19

    This worked in Windows 7, may still be valid in Windows 10:
    Microsoft Windows 7 Explorer Numerical Sort Order
      My ComputersSystem Spec
  4.    28 Mar 2017 #4

    Quote Originally Posted by cereberus View Post
    It has always been this way - it is called lexicographical sorting ie text is sorted from left to right. No easy way round it without 3rd party apps.

    Basically, sub ten numbers have to be numbered xxxx01, xxxx02 etc ie with a leading zero (or two zeros for sub one hundred if more than one hundred,three if more than 1000 and so on).
    Hi there

    @cereberus

    On my NAS server there's no problem - It's just Windows / File explorer hoses it up.

    Also if a Directory / Folder / file / track name etc is longer than around 200 chars then File explorer can't handle it at all !!!!!

    Here's what I believe something like it Should look like. (From my NAS server)

    Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	126962


    These files > 200 chars can't be handled by File explorer -- Why should I rename them - the tracks etc are descriptive of the content.

    Click image for larger version. 

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Views:	2 
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ID:	126963

    Cheers
    jimbo
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  5.    28 Mar 2017 #5
    Join Date : Jan 2015
    UK, Midlands
    Posts : 11,081
    Win 10 Pro (1703)

    @Ztruker- the GP still exists in '10 so should work- and does. Thanks.

    These files > 200 chars can't be handled by File explorer -- Why should I rename them
    Presumably path length restriction. If they are as long as that, wouldn't you have other problems with them?

    Good musical taste.. hope you've got some good speakers.
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  6.    28 Mar 2017 #6
    Join Date : Dec 2015
    Posts : 6,015
    Windows10

    Quote Originally Posted by jimbo45 View Post
    Hi there

    @cereberus

    On my NAS server there's no problem - It's just Windows / File explorer hoses it up.

    Also if a Directory / Folder / file / track name etc is longer than around 200 chars then File explorer can't handle it at all !!!!!

    Here's what I believe something like it Should look like. (From my NAS server)

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	snapshot15.png 
Views:	1 
Size:	208.3 KB 
ID:	126962


    These files > 200 chars can't be handled by File explorer -- Why should I rename them - the tracks etc are descriptive of the content.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	snapshot16.png 
Views:	2 
Size:	192.7 KB 
ID:	126963

    Cheers
    jimbo
    Sure - Different software using different basis.

    Windows has always used lexicographical sorting since day 1. All computer systems in old days used that basis (dates back to mainframe days)

    Just for clarity, lexicographical sorting does not consider numeric numbers. Numbers are just treated as letters - sorting is in effect on the ascii value of characters from left to right (but clever enough to handle A and a as the same letter). As numbers have ascii numbers lower than letters, this means file names starting with numbers will be before file names starting with a (A).

    In essence, it is an overstatement to say Windows hoses it - it just works on a different basis. In the end, I doubt Windows will ever change.

    If the regedit proposed works, fine.

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Re. length - long filenames are supposed to be in W10 now but .....

    You can fudge long file name by mapping a root drive to be a long path.

    Z:\ = C:\dir1\dir2\dir3\......dir n\

    A bit of a hassle but it works.
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  7.    28 Mar 2017 #7
    Join Date : Jan 2015
    UK, Midlands
    Posts : 11,081
    Win 10 Pro (1703)

    Doesn't look like long file names are supported- I just tried creating a couple of 262 characters.

    If your file name + folder path < 255, then adding characters to the file name stops at the path limit.

    Couldn't rename one that exceeded the limit- and I had file explorer crash trying to do so.
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  8.    28 Mar 2017 #8

    Quote Originally Posted by cereberus View Post
    Sure - Different software using different basis.

    Windows has always used lexicographical sorting since day 1. All computer systems in old days used that basis (dates back to mainframe days)

    Just for clarity, lexicographical sorting does not consider numeric numbers. Numbers are just treated as letters - sorting is in effect on the ascii value of characters from left to right (but clever enough to handle A and a as the same letter). As numbers have ascii numbers lower than letters, this means file names starting with numbers will be before file names starting with a (A).

    In essence, it is an overstatement to say Windows hoses it - it just works on a different basis. In the end, I doubt Windows will ever change.

    If the regedit proposed works, fine.

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Re. length - long filenames are supposed to be in W10 now but .....

    You can fudge long file name by mapping a root drive to be a long path.

    Z:\ = C:\dir1\dir2\dir3\......dir n\

    A bit of a hassle but it works.

    Hi there

    @cereberus and @dalchina

    Thanks for replies - but :

    BTW the regedit doesn't fix the problem of File explorer not showing long names.

    Long file names will fail on any software relying on Windows / File explorer -- so for example browsing a directory to play a file with say VLC will fail -- or at the best it will truncate the file to something unrecognizeable but sill actually play.

    For example

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Will need some way without renaming stuff to be able to serve this music up to Windows clients though without a mega rename operation !!!.

    My smart TV handles the files OK but I suppose that's because it's an Android based type system with no historical limit on files (based on the old DOS 8.3 format) which Windows still uses - even though we are well into C21 now !!!.

    Cheers
    jimbo
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  9.    28 Mar 2017 #9
    Join Date : Jan 2015
    UK, Midlands
    Posts : 11,081
    Win 10 Pro (1703)

    BTW the regedit doesn't fix the problem of File explorer not showing long names.
    Hi, it's not specified or expected to do so- merely change the sort order rule.
    Click image for larger version. 

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Views:	10 
Size:	78.1 KB 
ID:	126986
      My ComputerSystem Spec

 


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