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  1. Joined : Nov 2013
    Chicagoland
    Posts : 20,775
    Tower: W8.1; Laptop: W10 Pro build 10586; Windows Phone 8
       06 Jul 2015 #111

    Windows said: View Post
    Those are interesting facts. It would be good to ascertain what the usage share is, globally, for tablet computers versus desktop PCs and laptops in primary, secondary, further and higher education. As things stand now, I personally cannot envisage tablet computers ever overtaking traditional desktop PCs and laptops in these institutional environments. I contend that, in general, traditional application software is far more useful and comprehensive — in comparison with tablet-based apps — for businesses, educational and other institutions.
    Forget the iPad. Surface Pro with or without a docking station should answer to it.

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  2. Joined : Jul 2015
    Posts : 21
    Windows 8.1 Pro (x64)
       06 Jul 2015 #112

    HippsieGypsie said: View Post
    Firstly let me state this; Although you have every right to, you and others that install Classic Shell are in reality creating Windows 7.5. I understand your reasoning so far as speed of one system over the other is concerned, but you are not using the 8/8.1 systems as intended by its creator. It is liken to driving a car without a steering wheel. The Start screen, Charms, and any other navigational features that Classic Shell might eliminate being the “steering wheel”. Also, it is liken to spray painting graffiti on the Mona Lisa; the Classic Shell Start menu over the Start screen.
    I appreciate and respect your observation, HippsieGypsie, although I respectfully disagree with some of the points you have made.
    In a nice way, I chuckled at your cool "Mona Lisa" analogy; I did, indeed, find that very funny. I can see where you're coming from as regards your "Windows 7.5" comment (although I would say more like Windows 7.8.9! ) From my perspective, however, as a consumer I do not feel the need to justify the way in which I utilise Windows 8.1. Even if WinRT applications are "the future", it is not concerning to me. All I really care about is having a solid, fast and reliable OS that performs tasks that I want it to perform. Windows 8.1 Pro (x64) is an outstanding OS in terms of system functionality; I now believe that Windows 8.1 is Microsoft's best ever OS. However, as explained previously, there are certain aspects of its original UI that I dislike, such as the "Start" screen, "Settings", the lack of Aero and WinRT Universal Windows Apps (apps). Therefore, I installed Classic Shell and Aero Glass 8.1 to return to the much loved familiarity of Windows 7; this, along with the raw power of Windows 8.1's core system functionality, will do me very nicely indeed! I am completely indifferent as to whether or not WinRT apps will eventually supersede Win32/Win64 API application software. It means not a great deal to me because I will continue to use Win32/Win64 programs for as long as they're useful to me. As you may have gathered, I am a non-conformist and I do not mind if other people consider me to be a technological dinosaur.

    HippsieGypsie said: View Post
    Forget the iPad. Surface Pro with or without a docking station should answer to it.
    I like the hybrid approach with the Surface Pro and docking station; it is a great idea. In practical terms, however, I cannot see this ever superseding desktop PCs in business and institutional settings due to the costings of such. I would hazard a guess that an "Intel Core i7" 16 GB RAM Surface Pro machine is double the price compared with an "Intel Core i7" 16 GB RAM desktop PC with an almost identical specification. If the price of the Surface Pro reduces dramatically, then I believe it could certainly overtake the desktop PC in business and institutional environments.
    Last edited by Windows; 06 Jul 2015 at 18:39.
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  3.    06 Jul 2015 #113

    Windows said: View Post
    I like the hybrid approach with the Surface Pro and docking station; it is a great idea. In practical terms, however, I cannot see this ever superseding desktop PCs in business and institutional settings due to the costings of such. I would hazard a guess that an "Intel Core i7" 16 GB RAM Surface Pro machine is double the price compared with an "Intel Core i7" 16 GB RAM desktop PC with an almost identical specification. If the price of the Surface Pro reduces dramatically, then I believe it could certainly overtake the desktop PC in business and institutional environments.

    No mobile hybrid is going to replace a desktop class processor in terms of speed and power, at least not yet. But, it can match that of a user that needs an occasional use of x86 processing and a tablet when they don't. The cost is driven by the hardware and components to get there in that small package. You simply cannot do a direct comparison as it is just a tool for mobile use. Just like high end phones that can cost upwards of $6-900 these days, they are different tools for different purposes.

    While the cost may not be justified for you, it would be for many of the buyers like myself out there looking for that all around package that meets their needs.

    If you think businesses aren't looking at it, think again. There are a number of people on the Tablet and Surface forums that use it in that very environment.

    Not only can the cost be justified with a Surface, but any low cost 2 in 1 would work for that user and myself.

    MS will soon be releasing new phones with Continuum too. I don't see why businesses couldn't save tons of money dropping their tired old deskop pc's, expensive ipad's and iphones in favor of a phone that can work independently as a phone while wirelessly projecting a Windows App on a monitor with just a wireless bluetooth and mouse, eliminating the costs and management of those other devices. Imagine the cost savings even a small company could save.
    Last edited by EMINENT; 07 Jul 2015 at 02:09.
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  4. Joined : Jul 2015
    Posts : 1,102
    Windows 10 Pro (64 bit)
       07 Jul 2015 #114

    I see your points. Unfortunately windows 8/8.1 never appealed but with 10 and the return of the start menu I am pleased. The great thing about 10 is, unless I have this wrong, is it's going to be the last release so it will become really mature. Imagine in 10 years time how stable it will be plus compatibility issues will be far less. I like the idea of never having to get to grips with a new windows. Of course Microsoft could change their minds years down line

    I just get fed up with new releases breaking functionality or removing things. They all do it, MS and apple (who with every iOS release seem to ruin things!)
    Last edited by Scottyboy99; 07 Jul 2015 at 01:15. Reason: Extra lines
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  5. Joined : Nov 2013
    Idaho USA
    Posts : 4,534
    OS X, Win 10
       07 Jul 2015 #115

    . . .just never could see living in the past. Times change. . .really. . .
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  6. Joined : Jul 2014
    UK
    Posts : 16,465
    Windows 10
       07 Jul 2015 #116

    Scottyboy99 said: View Post
    I see your points. Unfortunately windows 8/8.1 never appealed but with 10 and the return of the start menu I am pleased. The great thing about 10 is, unless I have this wrong, is it's going to be the last release so it will become really mature. Imagine in 10 years time how stable it will be plus compatibility issues will be far less. I like the idea of never having to get to grips with a new windows. Of course Microsoft could change their minds years down line

    I just get fed up with new releases breaking functionality or removing things. They all do it, MS and apple (who with every iOS release seem to ruin things!)
    It's going to be the last version of Windows, but it is still going to evolve and have changes, they will just be more frequent and constantly updated

    Think how Apple do it, they have OS X but it changes every year, MS are now doing similar and as far as I can see the changes are not optional you have to update

    The look/feel of windows 10 today could be totally different in 5 or 10 years time, but you cant see I liked windows 10 in 2015 I want to stay on that version, you will always be on the latest (if H/W can handle it I assume)

    Someone correct me if I am wrong, but that's how I see windows from 10 onwards
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  7. Joined : Nov 2013
    Chicagoland
    Posts : 20,775
    Tower: W8.1; Laptop: W10 Pro build 10586; Windows Phone 8
       07 Jul 2015 #117

    Scottyboy99 said: View Post
    I see your points. Unfortunately windows 8/8.1 never appealed but with 10 and the return of the start menu I am pleased.The great thing about 10 is, unless I have this wrong, is it's going to be the last release so it will become really mature. Imagine in 10 years time how stable it will be plus compatibility issues will be far less. I like the idea of never having to get to grips with a new windows. Of course Microsoft could change their minds years down line
    I just get fed up with new releases breaking functionality or removing things. They all do it, MS and apple (who with every iOS release seem to ruin things!)
    I see you're new here, so welcome to Windows 10 Forums. And good luck with your purchase of Surface Pro. Great hybrid convertible.

    Since you chose to skip the 8 series, I'd lke to take the oppurtunity to catch you up on a few things. For now, the old Win32 system and the new WinRT system are running side by side pretty much as they did in the 8 series. 10 as of today is a combination of both also. It's rearranged a little to make it look more "Desktoppy". I call it 8.1 with training wheels on it.

    The Start menu in 10 may look a little similar to the one in 7 that so many cherish, but it is in no way the same. The 7 menu is a Win32 item and the 10 menu is a WinRT item aimed to be touch-centric to include live and non-live tiles.

    e.g. There is no Control Panel shortcut on it as in 7, but rather a link to the new WinRT Settings app. One can pin a tile for it on the right.

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    However, for now you can find a link to CP in the Advanced Power User Context menu carried over from Windows 8 series by left clicking the Start flag or WinKey/X combo.

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    Sooner or later MS will pull the plug on CP. I dare say a few years down the road they'll pull it on File Explorer also in exchange for something very similar to the OneDrive app in 8.

    10 is indeed the last OS, just as MS has stated. I'll have to disagree that it'll take 10 years to stablize it. That'll be accomplished within the first year or less, especially with the Insider program being extended.

    I'll assume "compatibility issues will be far less" meaning older Win32 programs/apps will continue to run. I'm quite sure they will if there be any more devs to write them, for Win32 apps will only run on a limited amount of device hardware architecture, mainly tower PCs and the more powerful laptops. From what I understand it's much easier to create universal apps for the WinRT and to have them run across multiple types of devices, therfore selling more of their apps. IOW they'll follow the money. Touch-centric mobile devices sales are on the rise and tower PCs have been on the decline. Put that together with MS creating an OS to run across multiple devices for familiararity and you've got a winner. It's not a matter of "Microsoft could change their minds years down line". They made their decision during the development of 7 which way they were headed > WinRT. BTW, 7 is where they introduced touch UI.

    10 In tablet mode is very similar to 8.1. It's just that the Start screen and All apps are combined.

    Here's an interesting article explaining their plan of attack and attraction:

    http://social.technet.microsoft.com/...indows-10.aspx

    In closing; Something I checked tonight with the Taskbar just as in 8 whether it be hidden or not. Take it and hold it with right mouse button an move it to any side and release. Must be a touch-centric item. I don't have a 7 for to test. I'm quite sure it's the same.

    Edit:

    Changed to right click on Start flag for Power User Context menu.

    Changed to Universal apps within the development paragraph subject.
    Last edited by HippsieGypsie; 07 Jul 2015 at 12:13.
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  8. Joined : Jul 2015
    Posts : 1,102
    Windows 10 Pro (64 bit)
       07 Jul 2015 #118

    Wow, thank you so much for taking the time to post all this information which I will digest. Yeah sorry I just meant that years down the line I felt by the OS would be so mature that many glitches/anomalies would be hopefully in the minority. I'm not really knocking MS for bugs. I am sure some exist but on the whole I have found Windows XP through to 7 a joy. One or two hairy incidents on patch Tuesdays aside Windows 7 has been so faithful. I think Apple has soured my experiences with updates to their iOS and iTunes - some horrific bugs / feature removals on that side of the fence. But I really like how Windows 10 is looking, the aesthetics of the start menu look great too. The surface is actually for my sister in law as she moves away from an old XP laptop and it seemed the hybrid tablet/laptop design fits her needs really well. She wants computing on the move (not a watered down iPad experience) but not be weighed down, plus wants to be able to setup at home in a familiar laptop position. It'll come with 8.1 initially but I'll be urging a windows 10 upgrade to her right away.

    I am still using windows 7 on my 4 year old Alienware laptop. I plan to upgrade to a desktop soon-ish but am waiting for OEM Windows 10 shipping with the new systems. I'll keep Windows 7 going on the old laptop partly for nostalgia and partly so I know some older software / games will continue to run!
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  9. Joined : Dec 2013
    Portsmouth Hampshire
    Posts : 1,197
    Windows 10 x86 14383 Insider Pro and Core 10240
       07 Jul 2015 #119

    I hate the thought that one day Windows 10 might give me the message that my hardware is too old or underspecified to continue to run Windows after a particular update, and thus will stop receiving updates, and that I should consider upgrading my computer.
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  10. Joined : Jan 2014
    Oak Ridge TN, USA
    Posts : 23,935
    Windows 10 Pro x64
       07 Jul 2015 #120

    Fafhrd said: View Post
    I hate the thought that one day Windows 10 might give me the message that my hardware is too old or underspecified to continue to run Windows after a particular update, and thus will stop receiving updates, and that I should consider upgrading my computer.
    I don't think that will occur. But I could be wrong. It would be bad if MS did allow that to happen.
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