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  1. Joined : Jun 2016
    Posts : 170
    Windows 10 64-bit home
       13 Oct 2016 #21

    Driver version 10.0.14393.0
    7/15/2016

    That is the driver details for most of the entries I listed above.

    Driver version 10.0.14393.0
    6/21/2006

    That is the listing for the USB Composite Devices listings.

    Strange how they are the same version but with widely different dates.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec


  2. Joined : Jun 2016
    Posts : 170
    Windows 10 64-bit home
       13 Oct 2016 #22

    I got a response back from Icy Dock:

    "Thank you for your email regarding the drive corruption with our MB174U3S-4SB model. We are really sorry to hear you have lost data with usage of our product, and we would like to find the cause of the issue since there are various factors that could cause the data corruption. One lead we have as of now with the information you have provided may be linked to the usage of WD drives and our unit. Your case sound somewhat similar to a different case that has some of the same issues, which is the data corruption and the usage of WD drives and when the data became corrupted.

    The WD drives are a significant factor as various models of the WD drives have this power saving feature that spins down the drives when the drives are not active. However, with that spin down feature, it is possible that enclosures could misinterpret this spin down to a disconnect due to the voltage change. This could lead to corrupted data, as the drives are not properly powered off before being disconnected from the computer. Those error messages could possibly be related to the drives spinning down and the computer interpreted that as a disconnect, causing issues with the disk identifiers on the operating system. We do have a firmware for the MB174U3S-4SB that could disable this spin down function for WD drives, but we need more testing to confirm this firmware could be used on various hardware and operating systems.

    I know you are still reorganizing your drives to get a few testing drives for the issue you have experienced and we understand if you have to spend extra time to get the testing drives ready. We are willing to send a MB174U3S-4SB with the new firmware installed that disables this spin down for WD drives for you to test. This testing can provide more insight on the issue you have experienced and could help in finding a solution for this model and the issue you have."
      My System SpecsSystem Spec


  3. Joined : Oct 2014
    Posts : 1,284
    win 10 Insider
       13 Oct 2016 #23

    Very interesting. At least they are actively trying to find an answer.

    Hope the new firmware fixes things but you need to have test drives to go any further so that may take a bit of juggling.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec


  4. Joined : May 2016
    Posts : 524
    Windows 10
       14 Oct 2016 #24

    @rivre:
    As I said before, I lost 1TB of data that was on a Seagate HDD also in Icy Box enclosure.
    At that time I suspect that could be something wrong with enclosure and send it to Dust Bin, just as a caution measure. And I also had the Feeling that the OS somehow "mismatch" Users/Permissions/ID´s, somehow was "confused".

    I think the Auto-Parking of Heads feature, is something "old" and every HDD today has that feature to prevent Head-Crash, and I doubt that could be the cause.
    But there could be other factors involved, 2 days ago I was getting a error in event viewer about WUDFRD Driver not loading for another external HDD USB3.0. That HDD is a native external HDD from Toshiba.
    I am also very interest to find out what was causing that Lost of Data, that are production machines and I can not afford losing Data
      My System SpecsSystem Spec


  5. Joined : Jun 2016
    Posts : 170
    Windows 10 64-bit home
       14 Oct 2016 #25

    Interesting that you mention WudfRd not loading. I also had one of those errors in my event viewer also:

    - Driver\WudfRd

    The only link I could find about that was a discussion in another forum about that not loading. They discovered their external enclosure had somehow set "windows driver foundation" in services from the default automatic to manual and that was the cause of the driver error. They set it back to automatic and said it fixed the issue. Sure enough, under services, mine was set to manual. Now, I have no idea if this will have any effect or make any difference, but at this point I'll try anything that promises to help point to the issue. I set my windows driver foundation to automatic (upon rebooting I see it's now set to "automatic (trigger start)". For some reason it won't let me set it to delayed start.

    From the other forum:

    "The driver \Driver\WUDFRd failed to load for the device"

    "it was an external hard disk enclosure (basically a box in which you can put any hard disk). The problem is I had set the Windows Driver Foundation - User-mode Driver Framework service to Automatic and everything worked fine, however, that external hard drive somehow set it back to Manual."
      My System SpecsSystem Spec


  6. Joined : Jun 2016
    Posts : 170
    Windows 10 64-bit home
       14 Oct 2016 #26

    Adalwar said: View Post
    @rivre:
    As I said before, I lost 1TB of data that was on a Seagate HDD also in Icy Box enclosure.
    At that time I suspect that could be something wrong with enclosure and send it to Dust Bin, just as a caution measure. And I also had the Feeling that the OS somehow "mismatch" Users/Permissions/ID´s, somehow was "confused".

    I think the Auto-Parking of Heads feature, is something "old" and every HDD today has that feature to prevent Head-Crash, and I doubt that could be the cause.
    But there could be other factors involved, 2 days ago I was getting a error in event viewer about WUDFRD Driver not loading for another external HDD USB3.0. That HDD is a native external HDD from Toshiba.
    I am also very interest to find out what was causing that Lost of Data, that are production machines and I can not afford losing Data
    Icy Dock seems very insistent that it is the green drives at fault here. I have no idea personally. If it was the green drives, why didn't this ever happen on my old PC with Windows 7? I was using the same drives and enclosures all along and never had these problems. On the other hand, as I mentioned, my SansDigital enclosure also acted up the other night when I tried to make a full system backup. It didn't corrupt thankfully but it did freeze up during the backup. And that enclosure also had a green drive in it. Maybe it's all just a coincidence, but Icy Dock does explain how the intellipark can cause that error about the disk identifiers. Maybe somebody else can chime in here about this "feature" existing on other drives than WD. There's a reason why green drives are notorious for this intellipark issue. The problem was that they parked every 8 seconds, leading to excessive parking that killed the drives within months. But Icy Dock seems to say any spin down while idle could trigger a problem as the enclosure could misinterpret the spin down as a disconnect. So I have no idea really.

    One of my Icy Docks had 1 Toshiba and 3 Seagates in it, and that also didn't want to get recognized by Windows 10 when I was first trying to get my enclosures up and running. Eventually Windows 10 was able to see them. I have no idea why. But I didn't try copying to that enclosure. I had just turned it on to see if the drives could be recognized. The only enclosures I have written to was the Icy Dock with the green drive and 3 Seagates, and the SansDigital with 1 Seagate, 1 WD Black and 1 WD green. Both drives I have written to have frozen, and both had a green. Only the Icy Dock resulted in corruption.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec


  7. Joined : May 2016
    Posts : 524
    Windows 10
       14 Oct 2016 #27

    Well, I think one important aspect is that for to corrupt the MFT (Master File Tables) of NTFS can only occur due a Power Failure, even small, or directly from a bad Software. I tend more to the possibility of Power issues.

    EDIT: I do not believe that special Feature of WD green could cause that error.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec


  8. Joined : Jun 2016
    Posts : 170
    Windows 10 64-bit home
       14 Oct 2016 #28

    But, according to Icy Dock, the Intellipark is what is causing the power issues. Read what they wrote again:

    "However, with that spin down feature, it is possible that enclosures could misinterpret this spin down to a disconnect due to the voltage change. This could lead to corrupted data, as the drives are not properly powered off before being disconnected from the computer. Those error messages could possibly be related to the drives spinning down and the computer interpreted that as a disconnect, causing issues with the disk identifiers on the operating system."

    So it sounds plausible to me that the drives are "dropping out' suddenly, causing refreshes of the enclosure. It's literally like the drives are being yanked out in the middle of writing, which is I think what happened basically - in the middle of writing one of the drives dropped out. When I started copying, everything went fine for the first 10 seconds or so, then it instantly froze, and the window at the top turned green, as if it was searching for the drive again. You know, like when you run a search for a file in a folder full of tons of files and it takes a minute for Windows to find it and you get that green bar letting you know it's searching? So I'm guessing that for whatever reason - driver issue, bad enclosures, esata card messing thing up, I don't know - but for whatever reason, drives are dropping out while copying which is resulting in corruption.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec


  9. Joined : May 2016
    Posts : 524
    Windows 10
       14 Oct 2016 #29

    I am not very Technical , but for my understanding, if there is a "Command Operation" going on , the Drive will not Spin Down.
    So, how should that exactly go?!
    I have a Seagate and it also happened, but I do not know if it has the same feature as WD green.
    Well, seems that it is recognized that the problem has to do with "Power". That is a least a point.
    I would like to hear from WD what they say about that explanation, for me it is not convincing.

    EDIT: Also, should not forget, seems it also affects Internal Drives as well , although I do not if they were WD green.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec


  10. Joined : Jun 2016
    Posts : 170
    Windows 10 64-bit home
       14 Oct 2016 #30

    I don't think the drives are spinning down during a write. I think they are literally dropping out like if I just physically yanked the drive out. I don't' know what would cause this but that's where Icy Dock suspects it's Intellipark. Of course this makes me wonder why this never happened in the years I've been using these drives in various enclosures on my old system.

    I did have to return an older model Mediasonic enclosure a couple years ago that was USB 3. The USB 3 refused to work with my USB 3 card on my old PC. My PC just wouldn't see the drives. So I sent it back for their esata version which worked great with my esata card (the same one that is on my new Windows 10 PC). This is what I was running into last week before my corruption hit - my new PC wasn't seeing the drives over USB 3. It was seeing them over esata. But then I keep remembering how I had that freeze-up this week when I was trying to make a system backup, and that was over esata. So back to square one again.

    I'm far from an expert, and it seems this issue is stumping the guys at Icy Dock too, so this is a tricky problem for sure. What makes this problem so bad is the potential for data loss, which has already happened.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec


 
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