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  1. Joined : Oct 2013
    Posts : 1,962
    Windows 7
       23 Apr 2015 #21

    Hi David, thanks for explaining your scenario. I do have a MS account for my 8.1 systems but not for this W10TP. I was trying to see how one survives without a MS account.

    As far as I can tell up to now, it is probably a 'false positive'. Nothing to really worry about. Maybe it is just a plain bug or a plain bugger.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec


  2. Joined : Nov 2013
    Land of 10,000 lakes
    Posts : 10,346
    W10 Pro, W10 Home
       23 Apr 2015 #22

    whs said: View Post
    LJ, I posted the question on the feedback system.
    Good. I'd like to know the answer as well. It will be interesting to see if MS responds.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec


  3. Joined : Oct 2013
    Posts : 1,962
    Windows 7
       25 Apr 2015 #23

    I just saw someone posting the troubles he ran into when he accidentally signed into a Microsoft account from a local account installation (in Windows 8). Interesting.

    Accidentally created a Microsoft account for Windows 8 - now are settings gone - Super User
      My System SpecsSystem Spec


  4. Joined : Apr 2014
    Space coast of Florida
    Posts : 4,351
    Windows 10 Pro X64 14393.576
       25 Apr 2015 #24

    I got burned with that too when Win 10 converted my local account to a MS account when was trying to report problems. I had to convert it back, redo some settings then create a separate MS account before I had everything straightened out again. Very painful.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec


  5. Joined : Oct 2013
    Posts : 1,962
    Windows 7
       25 Apr 2015 #25

    Here is another victim of this account mess.

    Windows 8 Store Broken... 0xc03f40c8 - Super User
      My System SpecsSystem Spec


  6. Joined : Oct 2013
    Penns Forrest
    Posts : 3,506
    Win_8.1-Pro, Win_10.1607-Pro, Mint_17.3
       26 Apr 2015 #26

    whs said: View Post
    After I succeeded to install W10TP with a local account - which we know is not obvious and probably impossible to do by most users - I now get nagged with IMPORTANT security alerts if I don't sign into the MS account. Does anybody know what the possible security issue with a local account could be ?

    This adds to the fact that I cannot use many of the W10 applications without a MS account. What does MS gain that they are pushing so hard for an account ?

    Attachment 17511
    In 10061, the install process moves local account to a new category
    "Owned by my company". The other category is "Owned by me" and only lets you create a MS account sign-in.

    This is a bit duplicitous in that I own the computer, but the only way top create a local account is to lie and tell Windows that my company owns the computer.


    +Correction
    In 10061, the install process adds two categories, one for business use, and one for personal use. I looked at "This computer belongs to me" and saw the Sign Up button. I looked at the "This Computer belongs to my company" and saw the familiar Create account link (which was known to get you to the local account option)
    -Correction

    I'm in the KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid) world - all MS needs to do to make me happy about this subject is to follow their own User Account rules. There's no implied good or bad about the choice made (local versus MS Account), nor is it an argument on the benefits of a MS account.

    It is simply about a clear an unambiguous choice. (Of course MS has buried the local account one level down on the Add User Account - at least they're being consistent, albeit, IMO, in the wrong direction)

    Click image for larger version. 

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    re: the Security message . MS categorizes levels the way they choose - WU often has important updates that aren't all that important
    I'm not getting the message you posted Wolfgang, so I wonder if it was resolved the first time I logged in to my MS account to install apps on 10061.

    An interesting observation: Excel Preview was brain dead until I signed in using my MS account. It would open an existing spreadsheet, but nothing could be modified. The filename in the title bar was NOT appended with (read-only) ... but it is a Preview, so I checked the file and it was not read only. I put this issue aside and at some point later I was connected and logged in to my MS account - fired up Excel Preview and everything worked!

    Once Excel was working, it continues to work whether or not I'm connected or logged in - beats me why it needed to touch base - there wasn't an update. Perhaps it was just home sick

    Turning off MS account msgs isn't a good idea IMO. This is a nuisance message, but what if there are msgs that you SHOULD take action? Better would be to determine if logging in to your MS account resolves the security message being displayed.

    Is there an app that needs some 'refresh' that might be causing the "You have to log in" message (Excel, in my case)?

    That's all I can think of - if I had the same notification I might be of more help.

    Good luck.
    Last edited by Slartybart; 27 Apr 2015 at 00:18.
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  7. Joined : Oct 2013
    Posts : 1,962
    Windows 7
       26 Apr 2015 #27

    The whole account business is a mess. They tied too much to the MS account. Both options should be equal except for the sync ability. I do not understand why they make it so difficult to operate with a local account.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec


  8. Joined : Oct 2013
    A Finnish ex-pat in Germany
    Posts : 9,571
    Windows 10 Pro
       26 Apr 2015 #28

    It really seems it is impossible to get this through to you geeks: Windows 10 is designed and intended to be used with an online account, a so called MS Account, which can be compared with a Google Account you need for an Android device and Apple ID needed for iOS and MacOSX.

    As a goodwill gesture from Microsoft, the conspiracy theoretics, users with a cloud phobia and other "I won't be forced to use this" lot out there can still install Windows 10 using a local account, although in my honest opinion especially after reading these threads you would be better of if you stopped complaining and using Windows 10 and migrated to Linux.

    Slartybart said: View Post
    In 10061, the install process moves local account to a new category
    "Owned by my company". The other category is "Owned by me" and only lets you create a MS account sign-in.
    Two sentences, three invalid and untrue statements. For the first, the company option is meant to be used if you need to sign in with organisational credentials, for instance your workplace's Office 365 for Business or Enterprise account.

    Then the three invalid and untrue statements:
    1. This company credentials sign-in option came already with build 10041
    2. The local account option was not moved anywhere
    3. It is of course not only possible but also the intended way to create a local account by selecting "This device belongs to me". It might be that the four mouse clicks is too much for some users but anyway, the instructions on how to do it can be found for instance in a Ten Forums tutorial (Step 22), or in a post I made over a month ago. "Inspired" by your post now I even made a video about it today:

    Kari said: View Post
    A new video. How to install Windows 10 creating a Local Account instead of an MS Account.



    Tutorial: Windows 10 Technical Preview - Clean Install - Windows 10 Forums, Step 22 in the tutorial shows the process of creating a local account.

    Please notice: My microphone is dying, I apologize for the audio quality. I will redo this video as soon as I have got a better mic.

    That's it for now.

    Kari
      My System SpecsSystem Spec


  9. Joined : Oct 2013
    Posts : 1,962
    Windows 7
       26 Apr 2015 #29

    The fact that Google does it does not make it right. But you are correct, Linux looks better every day - maybe one legacy Windows 7 in virtual to run the few Windows programs where there is no good Linux alternative.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec


  10. Joined : Sep 2014
    Posts : 2,923
    Windows 10 Pro
       26 Apr 2015 #30

    Slartybart said: View Post
    In 10061, the install process moves local account to a new category
    "Owned by my company". The other category is "Owned by me" and only lets you create a MS account sign-in.

    This is a bit duplicitous in that I own the computer, but the only way top create a local account is to lie and tell Windows that my company owns the computer.
    That's simply not true. You can create a local account by choosing "Owned by me". You simply click "Create New Account" and then click the link at the bottom that says "Create my account later" (or something like that, recalling it from memory). The next screen lets you create the local account.

    Slartybart said: View Post
    I'm in the KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid) world - all MS needs to do to make me happy about this subject is to follow their own User Account rules. There's no implied good or bad about the choice made (local versus MS Account), nor is it an argument on the benefits of a MS account.
    The benefit is that you can use all of Windows features with a MSA, you can't without one. So yes, there is a difference in choice.

    You might argue that this is non-intuitive, but Microsoft is doing this for a reason. Anyone that doesn't know why they would need a local account shouldn't be creating one. If they made it ridiculously easy to create a local account, they would have ton of tech support issues from users that created local accounts and didn't understand that doing so means you can't use most apps. Those who know what they're doing, want a local account and understand the consequences can find it if they really want to. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure it out. But it does take someone interested in figuring it out, rather than just complaining about it.

    Slartybart said: View Post
    re: the Security message . MS categorizes levels the way they choose - WU often has important updates that aren't all that important
    "Important" doesn't mean what you think it means in Windows Update. Microsoft has several levels of updates. Critical, Important, Moderate and Low.. These relate to the severity of the flaws they fix, or the level of which it is suggested they be installed. Important means :
    A vulnerability whose exploitation could result in compromise of the confidentiality, integrity, or availability of user data, or of the integrity or availability of processing resources. These scenarios include common use scenarios where client is compromised with warnings or prompts regardless of the prompt's provenance, quality, or usability. Sequences of user actions that do not generate prompts or warnings are also covered.

    Microsoft recommends that customers apply Important updates at the earliest opportunity.
    For patches that are not security related, they are typically marked as "Optional" or "Recommended", These do not get auto-selected most of the time from what I remember.

    I've just looked through my update history going back almost a year in Windows 8, and I can't find any "Important" updates that weren't important from what I can tell. What are you referring to exactly?
      My System SpecsSystem Spec


 
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