Windows 10: 3 weeks on Windows 10 as main OS - My thoughts...

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  1.    15 Apr 2015 #11

    husseinHr said: View Post
    Hearing that MS is stopping the W10 preview today was a huge surprise to me. I really hope the final isn't much like the current W10. They have a lot of work to do before the Summer 2015 release date... The new start menu is horrible. It's not very functional. I don't have time to elaborate, but yes, there's lots of work to do.
    Not stopping just some early builds are timing out
      My ComputerSystem Spec

  2.    15 Apr 2015 #12

    First... Why three separate posts? You do know you can edit your posts, right? If you want to add more to it, please do so rather than posting a long stream of consciousness in a never ending stream of posts.

    musiclover7 said: View Post
    They just need to take out the stupid letters under all apps. Totally not needed and serve no purpose, other than to break up the flow and make you scroll further to get where you want.
    I agree that the letters take up space, but they are mostly useful in touch when you "flick" a scroller at high speed and let you more quickly zone in on what you want when the letter is larger. You see this in Android and iOS as well, although they tend to pop up an overlay while scrolling. MS could do that as well here IMO.

    musiclover7 said: View Post
    I still don't see a lot of businesses coming on board with Windows 10. There is so much that they could do to improve the start menu/screen that they have not done up to now, and it is just crazy. Like, who is designing this stuff?
    This is a long game. Microsoft has to build the ecosystem and they have to start somewhere. Businesses may not be on board today, but in 5 years they will be, and in that time a large number of apps will have been built. Microsoft is not like Google... where if something doesn't become a smash hit in 6 months, they drop it like a hot potato... (although there have been exceptions... like the Kin).

    musiclover7 said: View Post
    Why can't we have folders to help us get rid of bloat and keep things organized on the start screen?

    Ok, I've got 30 programs installed on my machine, and yeah, I tend to use all of them. Do you know what a mess my start screen/menu would be if I tried to link to them all there given the tools that they have forced upon us. I usually just install rocketdock and call it a day. However, if we had folders where I could toss less used programs etc, I could see the start menu becoming a lot more useful.
    You CAN have folders. In fact, there are several there already. Not sure why you think you can't... It's one of the major new features of the new Start Menu.

    musiclover7 said: View Post
    When are we going to get native dual view built into File Explorer? Seriously, how often do you find yourself moving/copying files from one location to another, and how lame is it that you have to manage 2 windows to accomplish this? Yeah, I know, it's not a huge deal, but it seems like this should have come around long ago... Seriously, rather than just change the way icons look, and changing the word 'favorites' to 'quick access', buff up file explorer with some real muscle. Give us the means to easily retag or rename large groups of files. Give us better management tools without having to resort to 3rd party apps to accomplish this. These are things they can do at the OS level that are true improvements.
    Probably never... simply put, almost nobody needs it. The only real use for this is people that need to compare two folders, and frankly there are much better tools than your eyes to do that. Get a folder comparison tool. I can think of not other good reason why you would need to have two folders open side by side and have to move folders back and forth between them... That doesn't mean such a reason doesn't exist, just that the reason is so obscure that I can't think of it, which means it's got to be pretty rare.

    At most, all you need to have drop targets, ala your explorer tree in the left pane to drop files into.

    Even so, even if you absolutely have this need... all it takes is to open two explorer windows and hit WindowsKey-LeftArrow and WindowsKey-RightArrow and you have two full-screen side-by-side explor windows in half a second. That takes too much time? Use any number of scripting tools to write a script to do it in one click. If you're that much of a power users, that shouldn't take much effort.

    musiclover7 said: View Post
    As far as the start screen/menu goes, 90% of their user base hated the changes that came in Windows 8, so what they are doing in Windows 10 is a clear backtrack, but in my opinion the changes are way to miniscule/conservative. They don't go far enough. All they really did was shrink the start screen, tuck all apps along the left side (Glad they did this - I hated all apps on the old start screen and felt a little bit dummer every time I had to look at it), made it see through and added the power button back to it. These are all clear improvements, but not enough to justify a two version marketing leap. Yes, they added some new stuff under settings, but nothing ground breaking.
    90% is stretching it. Check out the Feedback app for all the people that want the Windows 8 start screen back. All it took was a little getting used to, and now that they've done that... lots of people found out they liked it. Another larger percentage of people didn't care one way or another... it's just a program launcher, and they usually just put icons on their desktop or taskbar anyways. I'd say, and i'm pulling this number out of my rear end... 45% of users had an intense dislike for it. At most.

    Still, I do find that the new menu has issues for me as well... I find it responds poorly, and I preferred the integrated search in the menu/screen rather than the separate cortana/taskbar search. But maybe i'll get used to it.
      My ComputerSystem Spec

  3.    15 Apr 2015 #13

    Mystere said: View Post
    I agree that the letters take up space, but they are mostly useful in touch when you "flick" a scroller at high speed and let you more quickly zone in on what you want when the letter is larger. You see this in Android and iOS as well, although they tend to pop up an overlay while scrolling. MS could do that as well here IMO.
    Again, this was the huge mistake they made with Windows 8, choosing to cater to touch users who represent a very small percentage of their user base. For the rest of us, they are useless and annoying.


    Mystere said: View Post
    This is a long game. Microsoft has to build the ecosystem and they have to start somewhere. Businesses may not be on board today, but in 5 years they will be, and in that time a large number of apps will have been built. Microsoft is not like Google... where if something doesn't become a smash hit in 6 months, they drop it like a hot potato... (although there have been exceptions... like the Kin).
    Businesses were already on board. The vast majority of PC's running in the business world today are running windows by a long shot. They had already embraced windows xp, and were beginning to embrace windows 7 in droves. All they had to do was release an OS with smart new features that catered to all users, did not get in anyone's way, and/or did not attempt to heard their entire user base like cattle in a touch based direction. Had they done that, businesses would have been on board with 8 as well. I work in the IT world. IT folks in hospitals call me when they can't solve things, so I wind up talking with a lot of different end users and support personnel. I still have yet to hear anyone with anything positive to say about the Windows 8 start screen outside of these forums. This contributes to my distaste.

    Mystere said: View Post
    You CAN have folders. In fact, there are several there already. Not sure why you think you can't... It's one of the major new features of the new Start Menu.
    Uh, no you can't. When you said this I got all excited and raced over to the start menu to try to put some of my apps into folders. Unless I am missing something obvious, this cannot be done. I am not talking about the documents folder, that when clicked opens up the actual documents folder in windows explorer. I am talking about a folder, or a subdivision of the start menu, where I can put all my tools related apps, another for my office related apps, another for my social related apps, etc, and access them without leaving the start menu, like I do now on my android phone and did before on my IOS phone via launcher. This should have been obvious improvement that they could have made to the start menu, and I am surprised they have yet to implement it.

    Mystere said: View Post
    Probably never... simply put, almost nobody needs it. The only real use for this is people that need to compare two folders, and frankly there are much better tools than your eyes to do that.
    No, I disagree, it would get used if it were there. Sometimes I find myself re-arranging the thousands of files I have scattered all over the 6 different hard drives I have, and I wish I could just utilize a single window to accomplish it. I use the snap functions all the time, which is ok, but I would prefer it in one window with an arrow pointing both ways between for copy/move vs the clumsy drag and drop we now have with only a small shred of available space to drop into just to the left of the file name. Plus, this is actually a useful improvement. File management is a big deal and adding this and other features like it would be great improvements that could be made at the OS level.


    Mystere said: View Post
    90% is stretching it. Check out the Feedback app for all the people that want the Windows 8 start screen back. All it took was a little getting used to, and now that they've done that... lots of people found out they liked it. Another larger percentage of people didn't care one way or another... it's just a program launcher, and they usually just put icons on their desktop or taskbar anyways. I'd say, and i'm pulling this number out of my rear end... 45% of users had an intense dislike for it. At most.
    I really don't think it was a stretch. As I said, I have yet to talk with anyone in person who actually liked the new interface. I've loaded classic shell for probably 20-30 friends, most of whom had a good month or 2 to fuss with the new interface, all of whom were thrilled to have the old way of doing things back when I gave it to them. I manage a team of 53 engineers, all of whom hate it. I've probably spoken with several hundred folk about windows 8 over the past 3 years, and still have yet to hear a favorable opinion. For your figures to be true, I would expect at least one person of the many I interact with outside of these forums to agree with you, but I have yet to talk with that person... I stand by my 90%. If anything, I would say it is higher. The only reason it sold, is because it was the most available option. By and large, it was a consumer failure, and that is a fact that cannot be argued.
      My ComputerSystem Spec

  4.    15 Apr 2015 #14

    Hello Mr. Music lover,

    if you want to be able to move files between folders (if you don't have two monitors) here is an easy way to do it. . .hit the Windows key plus the E key twice then go to the task bar and right click and choose "show windows side by side (ensure no other programs are running or they will also come up in the side by side mode. Now you can move whatever number of files, folders, etc., from one folder to another to your hearts content. . .. . .
      My ComputerSystem Spec

  5.    15 Apr 2015 #15

    musiclover7 said: View Post
    When are we going to get native dual view built into File Explorer? Seriously, how often do you find yourself moving/copying files from one location to another, and how lame is it that you have to manage 2 windows to accomplish this? Yeah, I know, it's not a huge deal, but it seems like this should have come around long ago... Seriously, rather than just change the way icons look, and changing the word 'favorites' to 'quick access', buff up file explorer with some real muscle. Give us the means to easily retag or rename large groups of files. Give us better management tools without having to resort to 3rd party apps to accomplish this. These are things they can do at the OS level that are true improvements.

    If I need to have 2 drives or folders open at the same time I use FreeCommander XE. If File Explorer had dual view I would use it instead. What one person find unnecessary another finds useful.
    Last edited by Winuser; 15 Apr 2015 at 18:03.
      My ComputerSystem Spec


  6. Posts : 713
    Windows 10 Build 14267
       15 Apr 2015 #16

    I've been using Windows 10 as my main OS since build 9926. Currently I'm running build 10056 and I feel confortable with it. I have a lot of programs and some games installed, and all goes fine by now. The new features and modifications aren't really that awesome, but I like the trend its development is going.

      My ComputerSystem Spec

  7.    15 Apr 2015 #17

    Lee said: View Post
    Hello Mr. Music lover,

    if you want to be able to move files between folders (if you don't have two monitors) here is an easy way to do it. . .hit the Windows key plus the E key twice then go to the task bar and right click and choose "show windows side by side (ensure no other programs are running or they will also come up in the side by side mode. Now you can move whatever number of files, folders, etc., from one folder to another to your hearts content. . .. . .
    I already do this. My point is it can be clumsy and there are advantages to being able to do it within one window. Also, it would be an easy addition to the OS that would be a real improvement, whether or not you make use of it. You gotta admit, trying to paste into a directory full of folders in Windows Explorer current is pretty interesting, given that you really only have a very small tiny space in which to right click and paste, just to the left of the folder list. This is just a small improvement. I could list of many more as well.
      My ComputerSystem Spec

  8.    15 Apr 2015 #18

    musiclover7 said: View Post
    Again, this was the huge mistake they made with Windows 8, choosing to cater to touch users who represent a very small percentage of their user base. For the rest of us, they are useless and annoying.
    Touch is not a "very small percentage". Last figures I saw were between 35 and 40% of notebooks shipping have touch capability. That's just notebooks. That doesn't count all the tablet sales (which are huge), Phone sales (which are not so huge, but MS is hoping that Windows 10 for Phones may change that... but they need vendors on board to get more penetration), and all-in-one PC's desktops with touch. Touch enabled devices are now > 50% of the Windows market. So yeah, stop thinking you're the majority.

    By 2017, Notebooks are expected to be 60-70% touch enabled.

    musiclover7 said: View Post
    Businesses were already on board. The vast majority of PC's running in the business world today are running windows by a long shot. They had already embraced windows xp, and were beginning to embrace windows 7 in droves. All they had to do was release an OS with smart new features that catered to all users, did not get in anyone's way, and/or did not attempt to heard their entire user base like cattle in a touch based direction. Had they done that, businesses would have been on board with 8 as well. I work in the IT world. IT folks in hospitals call me when they can't solve things, so I wind up talking with a lot of different end users and support personnel. I still have yet to hear anyone with anything positive to say about the Windows 8 start screen outside of these forums. This contributes to my distaste.
    Desktop windows is tied to Win32. That's x86/x64. By the end of this decade, the landscape will be totally different. People won't want desktop apps anymore, except for very specific purposes. They'll want apps they can use on their phones, tablets and pc's... and the only way to do that is to move them to a cross-platform operating system. That OS is called Windows Runtime, or WinRT and is what all "Modern" or "Universal" or "Metro" apps run on.

    WinRT is what Windows is transitioning into. By the end of the Decade, it will be 100% WinRT (with the exception of an x86/x64 emulation system for legacy app compatibility). That's the "long game". Settings is a WinRT app. Spartan is a WinRT app. The Mail and Calendar apps are WinRT apps. Office will have a WinRT version.

    This is not a fad, or a trick... This is what Microsoft has bet the company on (along with cloud services). Nothing, no matter how much people complain will stop this. It's happening. Just like when Apple went from OS9 to OSX, then from Motorola to PPC, and again to Intel. There were lots of changes, and old apps wouldn't work except in an emulation mode.

    musiclover7 said: View Post
    Uh, no you can't. When you said this I got all excited and raced over to the start menu to try to put some of my apps into folders. Unless I am missing something obvious, this cannot be done. I am not talking about the documents folder, that when clicked opens up the actual documents folder in windows explorer. I am talking about a folder, or a subdivision of the start menu, where I can put all my tools related apps, another for my office related apps, another for my social related apps, etc, and access them without leaving the start menu, like I do now on my android phone and did before on my IOS phone via launcher. This should have been obvious improvement that they could have made to the start menu, and I am surprised they have yet to implement it.
    Apparently I'm imagining this then.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    No, I disagree, it would get used if it were there. Sometimes I find myself re-arranging the thousands of files I have scattered all over the 6 different hard drives I have, and I wish I could just utilize a single window to accomplish it. I use the snap functions all the time, which is ok, but I would prefer it in one window with an arrow pointing both ways between for copy/move vs the clumsy drag and drop we now have with only a small shred of available space to drop into just to the left of the file name. Plus, this is actually a useful improvement. File management is a big deal and adding this and other features like it would be great improvements that could be made at the OS level.
    I fail t understand how having two explorer windows side by side can make that any easier. I agree that dropping in a folder in the explorer tree can be difficult, but there are better solutions than two windows side by side. I can't even fathom a reason why I would want to copy a file from one window to another window and then copy a file from that other window back to the first... that would be the only reason you would need two windows open... to see the contents of both so you could drag files from either folder... and frankly, I just don't see the need for almost anyone.

    I really don't think it was a stretch. As I said, I have yet to talk with anyone in person who actually liked the new interface. I've loaded classic shell for probably 20-30 friends, most of whom had a good month or 2 to fuss with the new interface, all of whom were thrilled to have the old way of doing things back when I gave it to them. I manage a team of 53 engineers, all of whom hate it. I've probably spoken with several hundred folk about windows 8 over the past 3 years, and still have yet to hear a favorable opinion. For your figures to be true, I would expect at least one person of the many I interact with outside of these forums to agree with you, but I have yet to talk with that person... I stand by my 90%. If anything, I would say it is higher. The only reason it sold, is because it was the most available option. By and large, it was a consumer failure, and that is a fact that cannot be argued.
    Most people believe what you tell them. If you tell them that Windows 8 sucks, they will start believing it... and when you tell your 20 or 30 friends how great classic shell is, they'll believe that too.

    I have a similar experience, but I told people how great Windows 8 is, and showed them how useful the start menu can be, and how to use it efficiently, and you know what? They love it.

    My experience is just as valid as yours, but I don't pretend that 90% of people love it. There's this weird thing with technology... people become dumb when they use it... otherwise smart people just become totally stupid, and they refuse to figure things out for themselves... thus they rely on "experts" to tell them their opinions... I have never seen anything like it in any other field.
      My ComputerSystem Spec


  9. Posts : 14,328
    Windows 10 Insider Preview
       15 Apr 2015 #19

    Dave44 said: View Post
    the start menu in build 10056 is resizable and better IMO and the power button near bottom so close to start button so that should please windows 7 users ect cant wait to try the RC when it released

    the RC should have some more nice improvements
    I don't like that they moved the power button. It was just fine where and what it was.
      My ComputerSystem Spec


  10. Posts : 1,467
    W7 Ultimate SP1 (64 bit), LM 18.1 MATE (64 bit), W10IP VM, W10 Home
       15 Apr 2015 #20

    3rd Party File Managers


    Winuser said: View Post
    If I need to have 2 drives or folders open at the same time I use FreeCommander XE. If File Explorer had dual view I would use it instead. What one person find unnecessary another finds useful.
    I'm using the older version of FreeCommander.
    The newer version had something broken in it (without reinstalling it I can't tell you what it was).

    The extra features in 3rd party file managers like FreeCommander are handy:
    • Twin panes + Tabs
    • Mass Rename tool
    • Hash check/generation
    • Built-in Command Prompt
    • Folder size
    • File/Folder:
      • Colour coding
      • Compare
      • Flat view
      • Filters


    "Twin panes + Tabs" are extremely useful when dealing with multiple folders (i.e. more than 2).
    For example, when I am working with videos I often need 4 folders open:
    • Edited video
    • Source:
      • Video
      • Audio
      • Subtitles

      My ComputerSystem Spec


 
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