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  1.    14 Apr 2015 #41
    Join Date : Oct 2014
    Posts : 17,861
    Windows 10 Insider Preview Build 16281

    Quote Originally Posted by Gary View Post
    It is retail, I purchased it
    In that case, Gary, I withdraw my answer . . . you could then use it on a different machine.

    I was assuming you bought the computer with Windows 7 as an OEM. And we all know what Assume does . . .
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  2.    14 Apr 2015 #42
    Join Date : Oct 2014
    Posts : 17,861
    Windows 10 Insider Preview Build 16281

    Quote Originally Posted by Gary View Post
    But I would be able to install the Windows 7 I bought on the new MOBO.
    Right . . . I assumed it was an OEM copy. Whoops!
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  3.    14 Apr 2015 #43
    Join Date : Feb 2014
    Posts : 9,466
    Windows 10 Professional

    Oh it's a business strategy alright, and yes, the crux of the issue is money.
    MS wants everybody using Windows 10!
    MS 'looses' piles and piles of money every year offering support to 7 different operating systems, on 'umpteen' different devices, in who knows how many different languages in whatever countries for 'X' number of years to come......
    ... and that's just the beginning!
      My ComputersSystem Spec
  4.    14 Apr 2015 #44
    Join Date : Sep 2014
    Nashville, TN
    Posts : 3,143
    Windows 10 Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by Gary View Post
    So then you upgrade from Windows 7 for free. Then say 6 weeks later your MOBO goes bad. No more Windows 10? They had better allow a return to Windows 7 if something like this were to happen. My PC is 4 + years old.
    Well, this is something of a grey area. Technically, once you upgrade your license to the free license, it will likely be tied to that machine, so its equivalent to an OEM (this is a guess, I don't know how it will be handled). You are free to "downgrade" in certain circumstances again, but it's hard to say what this will be...

    However, in reality, there isn't any "license police" that will prevent you from going back and installing your retail copy on a different computer if your first one died. I think most people would consider this "fair game", even if the letter of the license may not.

    You could then upgrade to Windows 10 on the new computer. In reality, there is talk of MS allowing "non-genuine" copies of Windows to upgrade to Windows 10 for free as well anyways, so the point may well be moot.

    The key is that you can't upgrade your copy of Windows 7, then install that copy of Windows 7 on a new computer, leaving Windows 10 on the old one. You would have to not be able to use Windows 10 on the old one.
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  5.    14 Apr 2015 #45
    Join Date : Sep 2014
    Nashville, TN
    Posts : 3,143
    Windows 10 Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by Delicieuxz View Post
    Hey Mystere, I wrote what I think is poor business planning. For you to have written so much while skipping over the premise for the whole statement kind of nullifies the point of the rest of your response.
    I did not skip over the premise. In fact, I pointed out that MS seemed to be doing the very thing you suggested they do. My comment was that it was experimental though (Offer good for 1 year), and not something they were going to commit to for all eternity. I then went on to explain how you were mistaken on your assumptions that your premise was largely based on.

    Quote Originally Posted by Delicieuxz View Post
    "For the life of the machine" means that the license is dependent upon the machine that receives it. When a license is tied to core hardware, changing that core hardware should make the license serial not work on a new installation. It has been my understanding that this is traditionally the case with Windows licenses that are received when Windows comes preinstalled on a new PC.
    That is an incorrect understanding, as the license is tied to the motherboard and is in fact burned into the BIOS. You can install and reinstall windows as many times as you like for all eternity on that computer and you won't have a problem. If the motherboard dies, then if it's in warranty, your OEM will provide you with a new motherboard with a valid license key in the BIOS. If not, then you will need to buy a new copy of Windows.

    Quote Originally Posted by Delicieuxz View Post
    Who's begging? Your stance seems more to be that beggars can't be discerning, as you're not willing to analyse and understand exactly what is involved in this offer from MS, and what it means to a person who accepts it. You must not be very responsible with the things that you own.
    It's a euphemism. A beggar can certainly be discerning, but they have no right to demand that the person giving them something give them more, and complain if they don't. That's just rude.

    I'm not suggesting Microsoft is doing this out of the goodness of their heart. But the fact is, you're getting it for free. And there is no requirement that you buy anything else (certainly MS hopes you will, but you don't have to). To complain because they aren't giving you a totally unencumbered copy you can transfer to any PC for all eternity is just being greedy in my book.
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  6.    14 Apr 2015 #46
    Join Date : Sep 2014
    Posts : 91
    64-bit 10240 10 Pro

    Microsoft should just clarify everything about the upgrade soon.
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  7.    14 Apr 2015 #47
    Join Date : Oct 2014
    Posts : 17,861
    Windows 10 Insider Preview Build 16281

    Quote Originally Posted by Delicieuxz View Post
    I want to strongly refute the often-arising notion that this maneuver of offering Windows 10 as a free upgrade is a generosity from Microsoft. This is a business strategy, and it is being done because Microsoft's traditional business strategy failed for their previous OS release - and because that one largely doesn't seem right to most people, a lot of whom only upgrade after being strong-armed by Microsoft into doing so.
    You make an assumption that we're all ignorant in this forum. We're not! We all know the "free upgrade" is a Microsoft business strategy. However, your reasoning of why Microsoft is offering the free upgrade fails.

    Quote Originally Posted by Delicieuxz View Post
    Further, the roots of this strategy come from its pioneering by other developers, most notably in the gaming industry - and so whether Microsoft is doing well or not with the strategy is well open to critique and discussion, and there is lots of reference material to make evaluations based off of.
    Which came first; the game or the Operating system? From the outset, once a particular version of Windows has been released, we've had free updates, service packs, patches, etc., etc., etc. When a new version has come out, i.e. Windows 95, Windows 98, and so on, we've had the opportunity to upgrade at a lesser cost rather than buy a full version. Further, we've been able to do a clean install from upgrade copies of Windows for years.

    Quote Originally Posted by Delicieuxz View Post
    Microsoft are not originators of this strategy, and so anyone who attempts to brush aside the scepticism and prying of others is not easily justified for doing so, and such efforts seem naive in the context that there actually is context to compare this effort of Microsoft's to.
    I'm not sure anyone in these forums has said, decided, claimed, justified or anything else that Microsoft originated the "free upgrade to the next version". More than anything, we're all waiting to see just how things shake out in the end. Yes, a lot of folks are asking questions and I don't see them shunted aside because they ask questions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Delicieuxz View Post
    If Windows is some people's brain candy and personal hobby, and so hearing of a free upgrade makes them giddy, then they should appreciate their own satisfaction and not over-extend their personal disposition to suggesting how someone who is not them ought to perceive the "free upgrade" and react to it.
    Again, you're putting words that haven't been uttered into folks' mouths. You must remember that this is a forum and that we all have our own ideas. We discuss things and yes, at times, some of us (myself included) get it wrong. However, you're making assumptions based on the fact that not everyone subscribes to your ideas.

    Quote Originally Posted by Delicieuxz View Post
    To other people, an OS is a purposed piece of functional software, upon which much other owned and future software is conditionally-dependent, and the matter of upgrading is an issue that involves practical considerations. I think most people see a Windows 10 more in such practical terms, and will want to scrutinize the big decision of a one-way upgrade that effects all their software, their work, their lives, and possibly they finances.
    It doesn't seem that it will be an actual one way upgrade at all. If I were to upgrade from Windows 7 or 8.1 to Windows 10 and didn't like it, I could roll back to my original Operating System.

    Quote Originally Posted by Delicieuxz View Post
    In short, viewing the Windows 10 upgrade offer as "free" is unsubstantiable as of this moment, and viewing it as generous is goofy and ignorant of the state of the software industry, what strategies are currently making the most money, and the reality that the cost of use is not vanished, but shifted into different strategic revenue streams.
    Again, you are assuming that we aren't among the sharpest knives in the drawer, or that we're a few bricks shy a load. That is not at all the case! Neither are we goofy or ignorant and I, for one, resent your statement as such! Whether you want to acknowledge it or not, the "free upgrade" is a precedent for Microsoft. Of course it's a business decision by Microsoft; none of us are so stupid that we don't know that. So, if I choose to be giddy (which I am not; I just accept it for what it is), over a free upgrade it's my decision, not yours to make for me.

    Did it ever occur to you that Microsoft has recognized the damage created by Windows 8 (8.1 is measurably better and I have learned to like it) and is using this offering to somewhat repair its image? Kinda like saying, "I'm sorry," without saying it in so many words. Stranger things have happened.

    Quote Originally Posted by Delicieuxz View Post
    And I maintain that MS should handle this upgrade in a clean manner, making it easy to upgrade and forget about it, leaving a user not wondering about the future security of their information station, but only looking forward. MS' current position looks a little to me like one-foot-in, one-foot-out - and from that perspective, this upgrade plan actually looks possibly greedy, and a scheme to move unwitting customers into a place where they eventually will be coerced into paying for Windows 10.
    As those of us in these forums have more brains than we're being given credit for, so does Microsoft. They threw Windows 10 out there for us Insiders to test and give feedback on; even to telling them exactly what we want. Windows 10 is far from finished, and I don't think I will attempt to tell them exactly how they should run things Windows 10. For what it's worth, I believe Microsoft is perfectly capable of running their upgrade plan without my help.

    Quote Originally Posted by Delicieuxz View Post
    And anyone who thinks that's tough and so what for the people who didn't research - think of the hypocrisy of criticising those who are trying to get to the information that makes it clear right now. Also, someone who thinks it's just too bad for those people probably does not have much experience in the real world, outside of a bubble in their computer room - because reality is that most people don't know the details, and also don't know that they don't know the details. And MS knows that this is the case - so their ambiguous wording seems to be somewhat of a consumer trap, done with the knowing that it'll put people in a tight spot down the road.
    Dang! You just don't quit, do you? I will tell you one more time! The people in these forums are smarter than your average bear. We discuss things. We ask questions. If we don't get an answer, we ask again. And again. We're individuals. We have individual ideas. We even have the ability to make up our own minds. No one here has intentionally sloughed off legitimate questions.

    Finally, your accusations don't hold water.
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  8.    14 Apr 2015 #48
    Join Date : Jan 2015
    Posts : 167
    Windows 7 Ultimate 64

    Quote Originally Posted by Wynona View Post
    You make an assumption that we're all ignorant in this forum. We're not! We all know the "free upgrade" is a Microsoft business strategy.
    I don't think that the people on this forum are ignorant - I think they're here because they pay attention to smaller details, and that many here have got tons of OS understanding that I don't. But I've seen people, and myself, get ridiculed for posting challenges to the MS Win 10 upgrade offer, and for voicing disapproval and criticism of some potential aspects of it that may come to be reality.

    I'm not looking a gift horse in the mouth, I'm making sure that the horse is not a trojan, and calling fault for potential underhanded representation of the gift - which I believe is wrong towards those who will be stuck by it, and I think that most people cannot be expected to have invested time into understanding MS' reasoning behind the upgrade offer ( forum-discussions and their produced comprehensions do not represent the understanding of an average PC user, who is far more likely to take an upgrade offer at its overly-simplistic face value ).

    Once Windows 10 is released and its upgrade accepted, the time for scrutiny is over. If it releases and everything is great, then MS will be worthy of praise. Before then, praise is based on nothing but an insisted sentiment, and it might backfire down the road - and I think that without scrutiny, it will.
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  9.    14 Apr 2015 #49
    Join Date : Jun 2014
    Posts : 5,544
    Windows 10 Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by Gary View Post
    It is retail, I purchased it
    Is it the System Builders version? If it's full retail your OK.
    From the Manufacturer

    "Use of this OEM System Builder Channel software is subject to the terms of the Microsoft OEM System Builder License. This software is intended for pre-installation on a new personal computer for resale. This OEM System Builder Channel software requires the assembler to provide end user support for the Windows software and cannot be transferred to another computer once it is installed. To acquire Windows software with support provided by Microsoft please see our full package "Retail" product offerings."
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  10.    14 Apr 2015 #50
    Join Date : Sep 2014
    Posts : 91
    64-bit 10240 10 Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by Delicieuxz View Post
    I don't think that the people on this forum are ignorant - I think they're here because they pay attention to smaller details, and that many here have got tons of OS understanding that I don't. But I've seen people, and myself, get ridiculed for posting challenges to the MS Win 10 upgrade offer, and for voicing disapproval and criticism of some potential aspects of it that may come to be reality.

    I'm not looking a gift horse in the mouth, I'm making sure that the horse is not a trojan, and calling fault for potential underhanded representation of the gift - which I believe is wrong towards those who will be stuck by it, and I think that most people cannot be expected to have invested time into understanding MS' reasoning behind the upgrade offer ( forum-discussions and their produced comprehensions do not represent the average PC user ). Once it's released and given, the time for scrutiny is over. If it releases and everything is great, then MS will be worthy of praise. Before then, praise is based on nothing but an insisted sentiment, and it might backfire down the road.
    MS is in business to make money, lots of money and giving away OS's is not the way to make money. Trust me, they have something up their sleeve that will bring in money.
      My ComputerSystem Spec

 
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