Windows 10: Windows 10 from the ground up

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  1.    13 May 2016 #11

    Now that is a good price. And given that rate 8Gb would be hard to pass up.
    G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 8GB Desktop Memory Model F3-12800CL9D-8GBRL - Newegg.com

    And that's a good price as well. 36.99 for 8Gb RAM.
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  2. Night Hawk's Avatar
    Posts : 3,328
    W10 Pro x64/W7 Ultimate x64 dual boot main - W10 Pro Insider Preview/W7 Pro x64 - remote pc
       13 May 2016 #12

    BunnyJ said: View Post
    For the vast majority of users 4Gb is more than adequate. I've used it with 8.1 with zero performance or operation issues. While 8Gb is nice it's a bit overkill for the majority that just browser the net or use social media.
    I have 16gb on the originally custom built 7 main case here and just recently upgraded a second mini tower from 4gb to 8gb of performance memory. It depends mainly on what the system will be used for. The 32bit 10 minimum 1gb 64bit 10 minimum 2gb while many premade 32bit systems now see either 3 or 4gb right from the factory since memory prices have fallen sharply when the desktop market started to slump and take a nose dive.

    8gb is certainly a fair amount in the event you might want to run any VMs(Virtual Machines) where you may have 2gb or more assigned or run multiple VMs at the same time. If you plan to work with CAD or any other memory hungry programs having that extra ram aboard will eliminate the need to upgrade hardwares later.

    But! for anything premade you will be paying more for Pro and having that extra memory added in! Then to add more in after if only 4-6gb you would need to match it up or see the original memory pulled and replaced by the larger amount of ram bought separately to be a bit more cost effective in some cases. OEMs charge an arm and leg for hardware upgrades!

    As for simply browsing the web and Facebook, Twitter most commonly seen as for social media the new Asus Flip book is marked off to only $287- at the MS store holding a sale. For a full desktop system you might want a look at something Toshiba as far as anything premade. The quality seems to be more then seen with other brands lately! But the one thing seen lately with desktop models is the nearly $2,000US price tags! I can build about 3-4 custom cases for that much and still have a large main drive and plenty of ram in each!
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  3.    13 May 2016 #13

    Vince Massi said: View Post
    I appreciate the answers. Researching it yesterday, I cannot find any real hardware differences in the newest Windows 10 desktops and similar 8.1 desktops. It is agreed that you should have 4 gigs of RAM (although 2 is adequate if you're not a gamer), but RAM is so cheap, and the future is so unpredictable, that 8 gigs seems to be the standard.
    If it was between Windows 8.1 and Windows 10 from the factory, I would go with whatever was cheaper, as long as Windows 10 gets put on it before July 29th.
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  4.    13 May 2016 #14

    Folks, I understand what Bunny is trying to say. 4 gigs is the STANDARD amount of RAM for a brand new Win 10 computer.Most users need no more than that. However, in light of future upgrades (plus some people are big gamers, like me) 8 gigs is recommended.

    Incidentally, they are arguing about 16 gigs of RAM. It generally only costs $50 more, but I wonder if that $50 wouldn't be better spent on getting a better video card.
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  5. Night Hawk's Avatar
    Posts : 3,328
    W10 Pro x64/W7 Ultimate x64 dual boot main - W10 Pro Insider Preview/W7 Pro x64 - remote pc
       13 May 2016 #15

    On a typical premade system spending on trying to get the best "Gaming" card is a little fruitless and waste of money in contrast to an all out high end gaming machine you can put together yourself. As for 8gb of memory I paid about $70 for a pair of 4gb dimms recently showing how prices have fallen since the Mushkin Enhanced 8gb of memory originally ordered for the main build but split up was four separate 2gb dimms equalling $140! $70 per pair of 2gb back in 2010! The micro atx max is 8gb there and will be seeing Hyper-V in use while the main still sees VMware which can see multiple VMs running together each taking 2gb a piece and still having other things running on the host OS itself.

    When previously on the previous build running into "Out of Resources" I simply invested in the expansion for the present build. The 32bit preinstalled Windows generally now sees 4gb while the 64bit Pro edition for each version 8.1 or 10 will tend to see 6gb. The Toshiba that came with the 64bit 10 Home on it ran for $447- with shipping and sales tax added in is now fetching about $100 more! Amazon.com: Toshiba Satellite C75D-B7297 17.3-Inch Laptop (Brushed Black): Computers Accessories

    Couldn't have picked a better time for the purchase being mid January after all the shopping days for 2015 were done and over with where I caught a price break. Likewise be on the watch for summer clearances but don't wait too long to start shopping around since by then the selections are usually quite limited! Spring sales have a tendency to take their tolls as well for seeing the older models cleared out before the new arrivals that come in the fall.
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  6.    16 May 2016 #16

    Buying a Cheap Windows 10 Laptop Part 1

    As of today, May 16, 2016, there are no laptops or desktops built from the ground up for Windows 10. Even the new ones are designed for 8.1.

    I need to explain the background. When Vista first came out, it ran poorly on most machines, because most machines had been designed for XP. Then an off-brand company put out a dual-core laptop with half a gig of RAM and it ran Vista great. How? XP machines often met the specs, but they had different types of hardware. This cheap laptop had all the right types of everything, including a dual-core processor (which was unusual at the time).

    When 8 first came out, it ran well on machines designed for 7. But when people bought Windows 8 machines and downgraded to 7, they had major problems. 8 machines had a superior internal architecture than 7 machines, and 7 had a hard time operating those machines.

    So if you buy a cheap laptop (or any other computer) with 10 installed at the factory, remember that you are buying a Windows 8.1 machine.
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  7.    16 May 2016 #17

    There's no such thing as "built from the ground up" for Windows 10. Any new computer for sale will run 8.1 or Windows 10 just fine. We've already purchased 5 Dell latitude laptops at once from Dell, and some come with 8.1 pre-installed and others come with 10 pre-installed. Considering the upgrade is free until July 29th, it doesn't matter what the computer ships with, as long as you will get it in time to do the upgrade for free, if needed. A computer is a computer. It isn't built for a specific OS. Find the best deal you can that fits your needs from a hardware perspective, and then load the OS on it that also fits your need. Of all the computers I've built and purchased personally, not one of them has been purchased specifically for an operating system. They have been purchased around budget and with respect to the software/games they will need to run.
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  8.    16 May 2016 #18

    Very much agree, DeconFrost!
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  9. Night Hawk's Avatar
    Posts : 3,328
    W10 Pro x64/W7 Ultimate x64 dual boot main - W10 Pro Insider Preview/W7 Pro x64 - remote pc
       16 May 2016 #19

    10 being the latest MS offering not quite out for the first full year as of yet certainly does lack the "From Ground Up" thinking since hardly "Anyone" ever has drivers ready to go when any new version first arrives and often you have to use the previous version's(8.1 in this case) updates for half the things going for that first year or so!

    Back when 7 was new I was still running the 2007 custom case since Vista first saw use on an even older XP Build which did have 2gb of memory not 512mb below the actual Minimum amount for Vista, 7, 8, 8.1, and now 10 when 7 first brought in the MinWin kernel to prevent the OS from bloating up even further!

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Since that with Windows still growing in size due to the entry of 8 bringing the now Dual Platform type OS Windows has become work on the MinWin had to be speeded up a bit to debloat the OS in order to maintain what had been previous acheived with 7 but still needed much work on the Mobile/Desktop mesh in order to work as 8 didn't! "Flopping around we go...." "MS CEO declares we tried out best but we need an immediate 8.1 intervention!" as MS realizes a major Flop flop flippidy flop flop?!

    Can't quite build totally new as of yet and yet can't run on hardware too old either since only those that see the immediate previous version's support will work! Catch 22 for new every time! That wait took place for the main build here seen back in 2010 before all of the UEFI integrations came about to trash the works even further?! Maybe 2017 or 2018 will see a nice newer build that still sees 7 support? Not likely by then! Once 10 has been out long enough you can write 7 off fast and easy!
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  10.    16 May 2016 #20

    Are there actually computers built from the ground up for specific operating systems? The answer is a definite "Yes."

    I have given the example of the budget laptop built specifically for Windows Vista that ran the OS great when most computers couldn't.

    Several months before Windows 95 came out, Consumer Reports did a rating on personal computers (which were using some version of Windows 3). CR pointed out that you needed to check that the CPU in any new computer would be capable of accepting an upgrade to 95.

    I was writing on the Acer forums when Windows 8 came out. A few people insisted on buying a brand new 8 laptop and then downgrading it to 7. But 8 used a better architecture than 7 did, and when computers built from the ground up for 8 were downgraded to 7, there were all kinds of problems. Yes, you could buy a 7 laptop upgraded to 8 at the factory and then downgrade it, but not a rig designed for 8.
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