Windows 10: What do you guys think of installable desktops for windows 10?

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  1. Posts : 1,551
    W7 32 bit, Linux Mint Xfce 18 64 bit
    Thread Starter
       26 Mar 2015 #11

    adamf said: View Post
    Well, no. That isn't how Windows works. As with OSX you use the UI you are given (subject to a limited bit of customisation). That is really the whole point.

    If you don't like it then you have to use a different OS where you can install whatever DM you want.

    OneGet is only a (currently rather limited) way of installing things that actually exist. You can't use it to install things that no-one has written.

    Similarly you cant hope
    sudo apt-get free_version_of_MSOffice_and_a_start_button_that_looks_like_a_cucumber
    will work on any version of linux.
    adamf
    Funny, I didn't mean it that way. (Bold item)
    I have used computer since windows 95 came out, actually even before that. I know a little Basic. Just because my grammar is bad, doesn't mean I am bad with computers.



    On OSX, I think you can install other desktops unofficially. It is called Macports, but you can't use any mac software while using the Linux desktop.

    Here is something else
    Ubuntu 14.04 Now Runs Well On The 2013 MacBook Air, Beats OS X 10.9 In Graphics - Phoronix
      My ComputerSystem Spec

  2.    26 Mar 2015 #12

    One has to understand that Linux has *NO* user interface at all by default. A distro has to first choose the Windowing system it will use, most of which choose some form of X Windows, this by itself doesn't have any UI either other than some very basic tools.

    Because Linux has no user interface (and thus no desktop), there are literally dozens if not hundreds of competing "standards" for the desktop, which includes everything from window chrome (Window managers) to Taskbars, to task managers, to common widgets, to basic functionality which must be duplicated by each and every desktop environment. It's very inefficient. Imagine if all those people writing their individual desktops got together and created a common set of functionality, and then simply added their unique features on top of it.
    Last edited by Mystere; 26 Mar 2015 at 16:06.
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  3. Posts : 804
    10 Pro Preview x64
       26 Mar 2015 #13

    Mystere said: View Post
    One has to understand that Linux has *NO* user interface at all by default. .
    Well indeed. I log on and then type startx. I guess if I had installed Ubuntu I could skip that step but it doesn't take that long really.
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  4. Posts : 12,383
    Windows 10 Pro
       26 Mar 2015 #14

    groze said: View Post
    Then why is Microsoft getting oneget?
    PowerShell OneGet is not a tool designed or intended to swap desktops. It is a package manager, or rather a packet manager management system (aggregator) to guide and handle various package managers like Chocolatey, NuGet and so on, even allowing users to create their own package providers and repositories.

    A package provider's main purpose is to offer a centralized access to application installers in various repositories. The most useful feature and the advantage even for a normal average user is the fast, easy and reliable "no-BS" approach for application installation: multiple apps can be installed with one simple command, the installers are picked up directly from the source bypassing each and every "Would you also download this" or "By installing this you also install that", as well as all "Click Next", "Click Continue" and such dialogs. One command, press enter, go get coffee and all 5 or 8 or 16 apps you told OneGet to install have been installed, silently in the background.

    In no way is OneGet meant nor will it be used to swap Windows desktop and windowing system.

    I am a great OneGet fan. Even if somewhat off topic, to finish this rant here's how I install Windows nowadays:
    • Install Windows 10 until it finally arrives to Settings dialog
    • Press CTRL+SHIFT+F3 to reboot to Audit Mode
    • Open PowerShell, give one command to install all my desktop apps
    • While OneGet works in the background, customize Windows and prepare the answer file to generalize the image and relocate the Users folder to drive X:
    • Sysprep the Windows image shutting down the PC
    • Boot with WinPE to capture the image for further installs / deployments
    • Boot the PC to OOBE to finalize installation

    Nice, relatively fast, extremely easy. End result is a Windows with everything installed, and a virgin Windows image which I can use to install (deploy) this same setup to any PC. Although the image already contains all the software I installed in Audit Mode, it's deployed faster to a new PC than a normal clean install of Windows would take on the same PC.

    Kari
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  5.    26 Mar 2015 #15

    Kari said: View Post
    PowerShell OneGet is not a tool designed or intended to swap desktops. It is a package manager, or rather a packet manager management system (aggregator) to guide and handle various package managers like Chocolatey, NuGet and so on, even allowing users to create their own package providers and repositories.
    I think you missed his point Kari. He was suggesting OneGet is similar to Linux package managers, and if Windows isn't supposed to be compared to Linux, why is MS releasing OneGet.
      My ComputerSystem Spec


  6. Posts : 12,383
    Windows 10 Pro
       26 Mar 2015 #16

    Yes, I "speed read" . Anyway, OneGet is not the first package management system in Windows. It just takes off from where NuGet is now.

    I don't get that kind of comparison. What on earth have yum and apt get and what not to do with this? The package management is not exclusively licenced to Linux.org.
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  7. Posts : 1,551
    W7 32 bit, Linux Mint Xfce 18 64 bit
    Thread Starter
       26 Mar 2015 #17

    Mystere said: View Post
    I think you missed his point Kari. He was suggesting OneGet is similar to Linux package managers, and if Windows isn't supposed to be compared to Linux, why is MS releasing OneGet.
    You are correct but I was trying to be nice, actually chocolatey by itself is more similar to apt-get than Oneget, after trying it. One-get seems to add a further steps.

    However, the problem with windows choco and possible oneget is it installs everything, even the stuff you don't want that may included pup. There is a gui of choco but I am not sure it will work on windows 7, I am testing that now.
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  8. Posts : 12,383
    Windows 10 Pro
       26 Mar 2015 #18

    groze said: View Post
    However, the problem with windows choco and possible oneget is it installs everything, even the stuff you don't want that may included pup. There is a gui of choco but I am not sure it will work on windows 7, I am testing that now.
    What?

    OneGet (and Chocolatey when used as a Windows application instead of OneGet package manager) gets the installers from their original source. Where's the risk to get anything unwanted?

    An example. My preferred Opera version is 12.15, I do not like the newer ones. OK, so I search for all versions of Opera, pipe the list to a selection window, select my version which is then piped to install-package cmdlet. All with one command:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    When PowerShell starts executing my command, I can follow its progress if I have nothing better to do. I can see for each program I install that the system picks up the original installers from their original sources, as in this example case:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    The risk to get something unwanted is much bigger when using "Click this, enable that" online installers.
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  9.    27 Mar 2015 #19

    groze said: View Post
    I still use windows 7 and most likely will stick with windows 7 with some form of Linux installed. I say I use them about equal, right now I am posting from windows 7. I still have a checkbook program I made with windows 7 Microsoft works database that I still use. I didn't like any of the free checkbook software.
    Nothing against your opinion, albeit give us a break with your need to bring up Linux. This is a Windows 10 site, and in all reality has noting to do with Linux. . .yes it really is that simple. . .Thank you. . .
      My ComputerSystem Spec

  10.    27 Mar 2015 #20

    Hi there

    YUM-Extender is a nice GUI package manager for Linux - I can't see why something like this wouldn't run on Windows -- all you really need is a database of the updates plus PRE and POS REQS (i.e other packages / software required to complete the installation) plus a reference to the source / software location (repository).

    I'm not a coder but to me the concept seems easy -- if the STORE actually had all the software in it then it in theory could be a real doddle to create this.

    Just because we are on a Windows Forum we shouldn't ignore some of the really GOOD facilities that Linux (or any other OS including iOS) has and incorporate them into Windows if it improves the whole Windows OOBE.

    Keeping track of what one has installed sensibly seems IMO just to be a "No brainer" --it's not a Linux Vs Windows thing - just IMO plain common sense.

    On a network you could add a field giving the computer ID too. So if you have several machines especially with different hardware then it makes the whole maintenance process simpler. (I know large corporates will have packages anyway for centralized software management -- my suggestion here is for single machines or smallish home networks).

    Screenshot of YUM extender running on CENTOS 7. I'm sure this type of interface would be very easy to develop for Windows -- we must have some competent coders out there - you could probably do it in 30 mins - I've suggested the method !!! but I haven't a clue about coding it. !!


    Cheers
    jimbo
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails snapshot14.png  
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