Windows 10: Well, it certainly wasn't an easy decision to make, but...

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  1. Wenda's Avatar
    Posts : 172
    Windows 8.1.1 64-bit
       22 Mar 2015 #1

    Well, it certainly wasn't an easy decision to make, but..., after a great deal of thought on the matter, I've decided to remove Windows 10 (build 9926) as my primary OS, and revert back to Windows 8.1.1 as my primary OS. This is not a decision I made lightly, especially considering that restoring a full image of my 8.1.1 setup (150+gb) takes over three hours on my huge but slow c: drive.

    I've been running Win 10 full-time for seven weeks now, so I certainly cannot be accused of 'not giving it a chance', and regular readers and fellow members of SevenForums or EightForums will be well aware that I'm not 'frightened' of any OS merely because it is different. Although the OS itself is reasonable enough to use and all my programs work (it allowed me to keep ALL my programs when I installed it as an upgrade over the 8.1.1 setup, without any hitches at all, which IS one big plus-point in 10's favour), the many niggles and dislikes were, well... many, niggly and disliked.

    **IE has never worked properly since Day One. All the bugs in Win 8's IE are still present, and MS has even managed to add a few more. Google search breaks at least 50% of the time, and lock-ups are common. Understandable there are no bug-fixes since they're apparently killing it off anyway, but why break it further? And there's nothing about its replacement that appeals to me personally, from what I've seen. I happen to like IE and am perfectly satisfied with it. I don't buy the anti-IE hype that seemingly floods the internet.

    **The new 'Settings' panel is superfluous, non-intuitive, and ugly. What's wrong with Control Panel? It's worked just fine since at least Windows 3. All settings and options should be there, not scattered about all over the system.

    **It's bland, with nowhere near enough eye-candy. I can't recall ever seeing an OS that's been hit so hard with the ugly-stick, or so unnecessarily. Put the full Aero experience back as an option for those who want it, or at least make it easy for 3rd-party programs to do so. At the very least, replace the overall 'look' of 10 with that of 8.1

    **The new Start menu is not as good as Win 7's, and I prefer to use Win 8.1's All Apps screen as my start menu anyway. MS should look at users being able to select whether to have Start Screen tiles or All Apps tiles in the RH pane (and the choice of how they are sorted, as we can in Win 8.1.1's All Apps screen). That one thing would make the new Start menu not only acceptable to me, but quite welcome. As it stands, though - no, thanks.

    **When I search, unless it is in a browser, it means I want to search my computer, NOT the entire known universe.

    **Just how much unnecessary junk does MS think we need in the LH pane in File Explorer? ALL I want to see there by default are my drives, my libraries, and Control Panel. Another backward step from 8/8.1 with no obvious option to get rid of it all. Icons and arrows in the ribbon are almost invisible to the naked eye against the background. And the Details pane STILL isn't back at the bottom of the window where it belongs.

    But all these niggles (and more) I could have (or already had) either lived with or worked around.

    No, the killer for me is this idiotic idea of forced updates. I put up with it for a while, eating into my limited monthly allowance, because I could see a reason for it, up to a point. But recently Realtek released a new audio driver for my sound chip, and Windows 10 treats it as an essential update (it's not). The problem? My laptop has 5.1 surround-sound built in, with Dolby Home Theater installed by the manufacturer's (Acer) sound driver. This is a Windows 7 driver, which Acer has not updated because it was unnecessary, as it works perfectly in Win 8/8.1. I know from experience that it also works perfectly well in Win 10, as does the Dolby Home Theater software. But Win 10 insists upon installing this new driver every time I restart the machine, and it totally zaps my 5.1 sound. EVERY restart. I'm sick of having to roll-back or re-install the 7 driver on an almost daily basis. There is no way to update DHT on its own, it is 'tied' to the audio driver.

    Another is that three weeks ago I used Win 10's 'Rollback' feature (after taking a system image) to roll back to Win 8.1 in order to take any updates and keep my 8.1 system up-to-date. I do have an older 8.1 image I could have used instead of the rollback feature, but again, it came down to a limited monthly data allowance. It also gave me the opportunity to test the rollback feature. And it worked just fine, I took all the updates for 8.1, imaged it (this is the setup I've just re-installed and it feels like a comfortable old pair of shoes, after 10), and then restored 10. Now, it appears that the rollback option, which used to appear on start-up giving you the choice to boot through to 10 or roll back to 8.1, is gone or broken.

    I'll still be installing 10 in a VM (which I can isolate from the 'net thus avoiding these unwanted updates), just to play about with, and will be following future developments with interest but, at this stage, 10 is not, imo, a worthy successor to 8.1.1 in any way. I certainly see nothing at this point which makes me want to 'upgrade' to it, even if the upgrade is free. In fact, I actually prefer the original Win 8 (which I DID pay for) even with its (largely perceived rather than actual) faults. I wouldn't be at all surprised if 8.1.1 follows Win 7 in becoming the 'new XP' at some time in the future. I'll still be remaining a member here, as well.

    Oh, I do like the new folder icons in File Explorer. That's about it for the positives, sadly.

    I composed this post on the Win 7 machine while the 8.1.1 image restored on the 'big' laptop. It's the first time I've used the 7 machine since around New Year, and the difference between the two, appearance-wise, is simply stunning. It makes 10 look even uglier by comparison than Win 8.1 does. It also made me realise that, nowadays, I much prefer 8.1 to 7 from a usability point of view, although I'll always love Win 7 regardless.

    Of course, these are only my views and opinions, your mileage may vary. But I'm definitely getting a sense of just how many Windows 7 users must have felt and still feel when confronted with Windows 8.

      My ComputerSystem Spec

  2. Wenda's Avatar
    Posts : 172
    Windows 8.1.1 64-bit
    Thread Starter
       22 Mar 2015 #2

    8.1.1 restored from an image, and is back up and running well.

    Currently installing Win 10 build 9926 in a VM (Virtual Box). It will NOT be connected
    to the internet except for such times as I may choose to do so, thanks to the afore-
    mentioned unwanted but mandatory updates.

    I'll download the new build later this week, using the machine of a friend who has an
    unlimited data connection, assuming an ISO is/will be available.

    If not, I'll wait until there is.

    I haven't totally given-up on 10 yet, although at this stage I'm definitely not a big fan.

      My ComputerSystem Spec

  3.    22 Mar 2015 #3

    Hi there

    Good review -- The sound issue IS annoying - I have to roll back driver every so often and I really don't like the start menu - however Eye candy IMO on a desktop isn't an essential for me - in fact if you are doing a lot of Photoshop at a PROFESSIONAL quality it's often better to have something simple like a bland light grey background.

    Remember also that Ms reminded people NOT to use this as their everyday OS - it's still under test and all sorts of bugs etc probably (and will be) encountered.

    Running in a VM is a great way to test decently without giving up your working computer - or if you are lucky like me run it on a spare machine !!.

    Ms NEEDS testers so these very issues can be at least reported and hopefully resolved. This type of OS needs testing on the widest range of hardware with the broadest range of users. Ms can't on its own test for all possible conditions.

    Note also W10 was primarily released early to satisfy Desktop users who were on the whole the most vociferous complainants against W8. We haven't even got to testing W10 properly yet on Touch and mobile devices where I'm sure the consumer experience (eye candy etc) will be improved.

    As far as the automatic updates are concerned I have to agree with you there though -- dumbing down things to a One click - or even a ZERO click install makes things really impossible when things go wrong -- at least the ROLL BACK driver option is still there.

    I HATE the ANDROID phone system of updates - once something is updated there's utterly NO roll back and you are stuck with it !!! hopefully Ms won't go down THAT particular route.

    Run as a VM and try the next build. The fact that many are using W10 as their main OS even though Ms advised against it shows that for loads of people W10 is going in the right direction.

    Remember also using Kari's tutorial you CAN make an ISO (both of 9926 and the latest 10041 build).

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  4. Wenda's Avatar
    Posts : 172
    Windows 8.1.1 64-bit
    Thread Starter
       22 Mar 2015 #4

    Yes, the original plan was to run it on the older Win 7 laptop, but sadly it jacked up
    as it's not upgradeable to 10. I had previously familiarised myself with 10 in a VM
    prior to trying it out as my 'main', and judged it to be stable enough to be worth a
    shot. Yes, I was prepared for issues, as the fact that I made a point of first imaging
    my 8.1 setup indicates. No biggie to go back to using the VM, and in fact that's hap-
    pening now.

    As the primary OS, it was usable enough, there were no dramatic crashes or BSODs
    (haven't had one at all, actually) but the niggles just got too frustrating in the end.
    No doubt there will be further improvements, but this way I at least have some
    control over what, and when they arrive.

    I'm standing firm on the eye-candy issue. I'm the one who has to look at it all day
    so I should have the choice of Aero or no Aero. They can turn it off by default and
    no-one need use it or even see it but those who choose to. And I'd bet that's a lot
    of people, from what I've heard and read on the subject.

    I still think this idea of one OS over all devices is DUMB, DUMB, DUMB, and can't
    understand why they can't seem to 'get' that one size does NOT fit all. Especially
    when the changes detract seriously from the needs of one group (serious desktop
    and powerful laptop users) to cater for another (the FB/Twitter 'social network'
    mob, who seem to think that's all there is to computing). I am not that kind of
    user and never will be, so I need to be able to have an OS that suits my kind of
    usage. At this point in time, that OS is Windows 8.1.1 As an example, I have a
    Windows phone (8.1) which I love. The tile interface, and the OS as a whole is
    so far ahead of an Android phone it's not funny. But the very same interface is
    USELESS on my 'real' computers.

    I'm normally all for something new, and was a very early adopter of Windows 8, I
    used it as my primary OS from the day the second beta was released and I have
    always been a staunch defender of 8 and 8.1 in the face of largely unwarranted
    criticism. But I really can't see the point of Windows 10, it should have been a
    further refinement of the truly excellent Windows 8.1.1, not this bland, plain
    ghost of an OS with a start menu of sorts added to keep the whingers quiet, and
    not much else apart from edging users further into the cloud. At least you can
    still turn all that off, or I'd not even consider 10. I simply do not trust my
    government (nor certain others), hackers or companies enough to be comfortable
    with keeping any files or info anywhere but on my physical machine. And when
    you look at the proposed new snooping laws in my country...

    I'm actually hoping that there might be a bit more 'something' for desktop users
    in a later preview or in the RTM, and I'm certainly not hoping Win 10 will fail.
    Quite the contrary. And I'm not dismissing it out-of-hand, or I wouldn't have run
    it as long as I did. I'm sure people want to know what others dislike about it and
    why, not just see constant praise or unwarranted criticism, and so I have tried to
    state my case clearly and hopefully without it being seen as nothing but an anti-
    Windows or anti-10 rant. But honestly, as it stands currently - no, it's not for me.

    Again, YMMV.


      My ComputerSystem Spec

  5. Cliff S's Avatar
    Posts : 21,739
    Win10 Pro, Win10 Pro N, Win10 Home, Win10 Pro Insider Fast Ring, Windows 8.1 Pro, Ubuntu
       22 Mar 2015 #5

    Wenda that was a really well written synopsis.
      My ComputersSystem Spec

  6.    22 Mar 2015 #6

    Hi there

    again very well written.

    I'm sure it will improve a lot - and I agree the same interface for EVERYTHING is just plain bonkers.

    As for phones - Yes I'd prefer the Windows OS on a phone to android any day - but the Handsets IMO are just plain HIDEOUS. (Again that's a user preference). I love the look of the new METAL Samsung S6 to appear here in a week or so --especially the one with the Curved edges. -- it's a pity it doesn't run on Windows -- but since Ms has hinted that the OS will be developed for the processors in the Samsung and other android phones --perhaps someone can Hack it or make a custom workable ROM. - Phones though that's a whole discussion in itself.

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails s6.png  
      My ComputerSystem Spec

  7. Wenda's Avatar
    Posts : 172
    Windows 8.1.1 64-bit
    Thread Starter
       22 Mar 2015 #7

    Thanks, Cliff, I appreciate that. I had some negative points I wanted to raise
    but wanted to avoid coming across as either a Windows or MS-hater or a troll
    although those who know me from 7 or 8forums know I'm neither. It's not that
    easy to do, so the comments were edited and altered more than a few times
    before I was happy enough to post them.

    I believe that it's just as important to mention things you do not like as it is
    to praise those features which you do find desirable. And no-one is going to
    like or hate the same things about any OS. I'm aware that some can't abide
    any criticism of their OS of choice, but I do believe that to be a somewhat
    blinkered view. No OS is perfect, after all (but by golly, a well-set-up 8.1.1
    system does come awfully close). :)

    Just incidentally, the planned installation of build 9926 into Virtual Box didn't
    work, possibly because my copy of V-Box is a few versions old.

    But all is good, and it is now happily installing itself into Hyper-V as I type.
    It won't be lonely either, as there are two previous Win 10 builds already
    sitting there as well.

      My ComputerSystem Spec

  8.    22 Mar 2015 #8

    Excellent writeup Wenda!

    Virtual Box had some issues when I installed it way back several versions ago.
    There are fixes/workarounds available on the web that'll make it work for you.
    I got mine installed with the first few searches on Google (here's a link that's similar to what I used: virtual box windows 10 - Google Search )

    I am going to make the switch to running Win10 full-time in the near future.
    I'd expected that this update would be the one that tipped the scale for me - but I don't think that it will happen.
    I have to make the switch soon - so that I can have some significant experience with the OS prior to it's release.
      My ComputerSystem Spec

  9. Posts : 1,497
    Windows 10 Pro (32-bit) 16299.15
       22 Mar 2015 #9

    The dodgy Realtek audio drivers which keep insisting on installing themselves are a pain. On my old hardware the Update to them always fails (at one point it was causing BSODs), at least in 9926.

    Hopefully if enough of us raise the issue in the Insider Feedback thingy, they will abandon the forced auto-update idea, at least for drivers.
      My ComputerSystem Spec

  10.    22 Mar 2015 #10

    DavidY said: View Post
    The dodgy Realtek audio drivers which keep insisting on installing themselves are a pain. On my old hardware the Update to them always fails (at one point it was causing BSODs), at least in 9926.

    Hopefully if enough of us raise the issue in the Insider Feedback thingy, they will abandon the forced auto-update idea, at least for drivers.
    Hi there

    at least we can ROLL BACK a driver -- but if they go forward with this crazy auto update idea they might remove even that option and then we'd be really stuck.

    I'm in favour of simplifying SENSIBLE stuff but hardware drivers - specially in these days where "Badged" items could be made from a whole variety of different factories and places the user should be able to decide if that update should be installed --like previously under "Optional updates". A generic driver say like REALTEK will work differently depending on the chipset used to make it so Ms needs to be careful here.

      My ComputerSystem Spec

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