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  1.    22 Mar 2015 #21
    Join Date : Oct 2013
    Posts : 1,962
    Windows 7

    My only interest in any new OS, since Vista, is to be able to set up a new OS/PC for my customers who go out and buy a new PC, with some new and strange OS on it. If it don't look anything like their old PC with XP on it, they are like little lost sheep.
    I think you are providing your 'customers' a disservice. Age is no reason that you cannot learn new things. Most of your 'customers' are probably not older than I am. I bought my first PC with Vista at age 70 and have enjoyed every new OS. Give your 'customers' a little push to crank up their neurons. I am sure they can adapt to a new OS.

    I have been teaching seniors for several years at the local computer club. There were those that really tried hard and succeeded and then the others that gave up because they were too lazy (my take). Those you can only move with some serious kita.
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  2.    29 Mar 2015 #22
    Join Date : Dec 2013
    Posts : 168
    Windows 8.1.1 64-bit
    Thread Starter

    Well, it's been a week now, and it felt (and still does) like a homecoming. I'm
    as 'at home' on 8.1.1 as I ever was (or indeed anyone might be). After 7 weeks
    on Win 10 it actually feels somewhat relieving. To know that everything works
    properly is only part of it. It's just... like a home-coming.

    Gotta say, though (and those who know me from SevenForums and EightForums
    will vouch for the fact that I'm a bit of an 'OS Nut') that I've probably never been
    less impressed with a Microsoft OS since Win ME (which I DID eventually manage
    to tame, but it wasn't easy).

    I can sort-of understand the knockers of the original Windows 8. They were
    largely wrong, but that's as may be. But what I CANNOT understand, is those
    who knock 8.1.1 People, there's never been a better OS. It's Windows 7 with
    a 351 Cleveland, twin-turbos and a six-speed stickshift.

    It needs to be refined, yes. But not replaced with this ghost (literally, it's SO
    bland and plain, it's almost albino) of an OS. it literally hurts my 57-year-old
    eyes to look at it. But I can look at Vista (beautiful) or 7 all day... go figure.

    And once again, one OS will NOT conquer all. Smartphones and desktops are
    totally different environments. Sooner MS realises that...

    There are several things I do like about 10, but no. It's not for me, at least not
    yet, and not in its present incarnation. Let me make it look and work like 8.1.1
    (you can't, I've tried) and restore the un-killability of 8.1.1 and I'd be prepared
    to give it another chance. But now... Win 8.1 was a worthy upgrade from Win 7.
    Win 10 is not a worthy upgrade from Win 8.1.1, not yet and not close.

    Anyway, it is now chugging safely away in a VM (Hyper-V, it wouldn't install in
    Virtual-Box at all) where it can't update my audio driver every 20 minutes or
    download Gb's of 'updates' over my 8gb/month connection (stupid move, MS)
    or do any other harm (it's isolated from the 'net) and where I can control what
    it does and when.

    And it can bloody-well stay there, at least until the RTM is released. Hoping it's
    a BIG improvement. Not so much operationally (although the continued push
    towards 'touch' sucks hard), but visually. It's HORRIBLE to look at!

    Refine the superb Win 8.1.1, don't foist this ugly duckling onto us.

    Again, my opinion only, YMMV.

    As for Mystere, he seems to be missing my point (he used to do that a lot in the
    early days of Win 8 as well), and/or dismissing my concerns. That is his right, as
    it is mine to disagree. All good.


    Wenda.
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  3.    29 Mar 2015 #23
    Join Date : Mar 2015
    Posts : 142
    Windows 10 Pro Edition Build 16299.64

    Dear Wenda,
    All I can say is WOW, I enjoyed reading your most informative post here in the forum. I surely agree with you concerning all of the negative comment's concerning windows 8.1 o.s., I think part of the issue's (and I use this term lightly) is the lack of communication's from the developer's of it, as to how to actually use it properly. Of course then you have people like me who have a genuine 'zest' for learning new technologies. I like you, found windows 8.1 VERY satisfying to use. I've never really tried using a 'Virtual Machine' to run a different operating system, but at least on my current installation of windows 10 technical preview..I created a new partition on my laptops hard drive, and installed it there. On the most recent build release (#10041) I was really annoyed @ the software developer's when I installed this build, because my Realtek sound card wasn't recognized upon installation..and of course I didn't have any sound card listed in the device manager area. Evidently..they 'hurried' this build up to satisfy windows insiders who were getting rather impatient for a new release. I myself would rather the developer's take a little more time and GET IT RIGHT !
    David
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  4.    29 Mar 2015 #24
    Join Date : Oct 2013
    Posts : 1,962
    Windows 7

    Refine the superb Win 8.1.1, don't foist this ugly duckling onto us.
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  5.    29 Mar 2015 #25
    Join Date : Sep 2014
    Posts : 91
    64-bit 10240 10 Pro

    A very well written explanation but maybe you were not aware that if you right click on the ugly start orb a menu will pop up that has a link to the control panel. I know that this was not the only reason you went back though. I do not use IE so I have no idea about it. To be honest I may stay with seven, it depends on many things like the Windows Store not working because I don't have Windows Firewall turned on. Well yesterday I removed avast (AIS) and turned on the WF and it still does not work unless it is closed on weekends..LOL anyway thanks for your input. I hope you submitted that to MS.
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  6.    29 Mar 2015 #26
    Join Date : Mar 2015
    Posts : 8
    XP, 7, 8, 10

    Quote Originally Posted by Mystere View Post

    Control panel is based on a very old programming API. The new Settings items work in a totally different API, the old API is going away. It will take some time for all the control panel items to be migrated to the new Settings. It really is not productive to complain that Windows keeps changing stuff, because that's the whole point. Windows is going to WinRT for everything, and nothing will stop that. Microsoft is not going to go backwards on this and bring back stuff they've already converted.

    Consider it like this. Let's say the company you work for has decided to build a new building next to the old one. The idea is, everyone will eventually move to the new building and the old one will be torn down. As the new building is completed, story by story, people move to the new building, and parts of the old building are dismantled.

    Soon, some people start complaining because they have to go from one building to the next, and they can't work this way for the rest of their lives... Which is of course silly because they won't be working that way for the rest of their lives, only until enough of the new building is done that they won't have to do that anymore. However, those people keep insisting on acting like the two-building approach that is happening now will be that way forever, despite being reassured that it won't be.

    Next, another group of people start complaining because the Cafeteria moved to the new building. Not only do they have to go to the new building to get their lunch, but they don't like the new paint and layout of tables, at all. This is a disaster they say. Why couldn't we just keep the Cafeteria where it was? Ignoring of course the point of the whole exercise is to move everything to the new building, keeping two cafeteria's going would be expensive, confusing, and require twice the staff. Plus, you don't know how many people will go to one vs the other, so you have to have enough food for everyone at both cafeterias. It just doesn't make sense to keep two of them, plus the old cafeteria will eventually have to go away anyways.

    Now, another group of people say they refuse to use the new building. The old building did everything they needed. They won't go to meetings there, and they won't move their themselves. They don't like the design, and they will just stay put. They can't understand why They're being required to do things over there. They'll just stay there forever, they can't make them move. Plus, the new building is farther away from the parking lot (never mind the fact that a new parking ramp will be built on the spot of the old building that will actually make it closer when completed).

    So I guess my point of all this is.. You're just not going get any traction on complaining about moving parts of the OS to WinRT, it's happening, and will continue to happen.



    I like the minimalist approach myself. However, it's quite easy to change the eye candy. There are already a number of examples of how to do so, and there are tools to even bring back Aero glass. I really don't understand your complaint because what you're asking for is already possible.

    [I]

    The start menu in 9926 was an interim start menu. The Menu in 10041 is a lot better in many ways. Sure, some people still don't seem to like it. However, Microsoft gets a lot of flack no matter what they do. I can't count the number of people in these very forums that complained incessantly about the horizontal scrolling of the start menu. Well, the new one is vertical... And I guess that's not good enough either, now they all want to go back to Windows 8's start menu.

    All it goes to show is that you get used to whatever you use. You may hate something at first, but eventually people get used to it and they grow to like it. So when you change it, they want it back.
    Sigh.... I can see your point, but have to disagree. I have an old tool. It functions perfectly, and does everything I need. To replace it with a new tool that doesn't have ALL of the functionality of the old one, and cripples productivity is self defeating. I find PC Settings seriously lacking in functionality. If I had to move to a cafeteria where you stand in one line to get a drink, then work through a hidden maze, and stand in line to get a salad, (You can see where I'm going with this.) I think I would prefer the old one where all my options are laid out in one place. Control Panel is an outstanding tool. To launch this new product without having ALL of the functionality restored, and crippling productivity would be bad for users everywhere. I don't mind a slightly new layout, but the learning curve has to be very small, and ALL of the previous functionality needs to be there, or it's just a piece of trash.

    I hear "Get used to it" a lot. Especially when Windows 8 came out and (In my opinion) fell on its face. Users/Customers MUST be a priority. "Get used to it" is not a user friendly term. Since Vista, I have advocated two things. 1: Maintain all of the functionality of the previous version, and 2: keep the learning curve down. Microsoft (again, in my opinion) has done neither. Burying options/functions under layers of sub menus, moving/hiding frequently tools to the bottom of these menus, and destroying productivity is NOT a way to win over the masses.

    I feel that Control Panel not only needs to be kept; It also needs to be moved back to the start menu where it belongs. Reprogram it to make it more efficient? OK. Change the layout? errr.. not good, but OK. Replace it with something less effective and destroy my productivity? NO! The new replacement for Control Panel has not shown me anything, and right now in its admittedly unfinished state, to me is just a bunch of junk. Keeping functionality is NOT moving backwards. Taking away tools people use, and destroying productivity IS.

    Restore control panel to the Start Menu. Keep the Buffet in one place.
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  7.    29 Mar 2015 #27
    Join Date : Aug 2014
    Australia, Adelaide
    Posts : 1,569
    W7 Ultimate SP1 (64 bit), LM 18.2 MATE (64 bit), W10 Home (64 bit)

    Having two Control Panels is ridiculous.
    How difficult can it be to display all of the "shortcuts" into one location?
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  8.    29 Mar 2015 #28
    Join Date : Sep 2014
    Posts : 91
    64-bit 10240 10 Pro

    This is far from a RTM release so maybe MS will fix some of these issues.
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  9.    29 Mar 2015 #29
    Join Date : Aug 2014
    Australia, Adelaide
    Posts : 1,569
    W7 Ultimate SP1 (64 bit), LM 18.2 MATE (64 bit), W10 Home (64 bit)

    Quote Originally Posted by Mystere View Post
    The start menu in 9926 was an interim start menu. The Menu in 10041 is a lot better in many ways. Sure, some people still don't seem to like it. However, Microsoft gets a lot of flack no matter what they do. I can't count the number of people in these very forums that complained incessantly about the horizontal scrolling of the start menu. Well, the new one is vertical... And I guess that's not good enough either, now they all want to go back to Windows 8's start menu.
    It's MS' own fault.
    It's like no one at MS understands English (even the US version).

    IMO, the W10 scrolling complaints don't relate to the Start Menu pane, but to the "All Apps" column.

    The solution to this issue has not changed since the W8 previews.
    Provide an easy to use setting; "Use W7 Start Menu system" or "Use W8 Start Screen system".

    Quote Originally Posted by Mystere View Post
    All it goes to show is that you get used to whatever you use. You may hate something at first, but eventually people get used to it and they grow to like it. So when you change it, they want it back.
    If you are offered a "horrible choice" or an "even more horrible choice", the best option is the "horrible choice".

    Quote Originally Posted by Gary View Post
    This is far from a RTM release so maybe MS will fix some of these issues.
    It seems like MS couldn't (or wouldn't) fix the Control Panel issue in the W8 series.

    There have been rumours that the RTM is only a few months away.
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  10.    29 Mar 2015 #30
    Join Date : Oct 2014
    Posts : 940
    Windows 8.1, Win10Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by Gary View Post
    This is far from a RTM release so maybe MS will fix some of these issues.
    MS is not going to fix what they feel is not "broken". I was actually feeling quite positive the way the UI was going until MS went and stuck us with this ridiculous "Modern" Start Menu! IF I wanted live tiles, I'd use the Start Screen. If I want the Start Menu, I want something NOT "Modern" but more like the old Win7 start menu.

    The Stardock folks actually have what I feel is the right idea -- give folks a choice over what type of Start Menu they want. I have to believe that it's not rank stupidity that prevents MS from understanding this "choice" thing -- it has to be some other agenda at play.

    MS is not going to fix what we think is broken, only what they think is broken. It's becoming apparent that the one-UI-for-all (phone) people are driving the UI decisions and that those of us who do NOT want a smartphone-like UI are, just as with Win8, going to lose out in the long run.
      My ComputerSystem Spec

 
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