Windows 10: Help in understanding the repetitive trees

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  1.    29 Mar 2016 #1

    Help in understanding the repetitive trees


    I was under the mis-impression that Win10 would eliminate the redundancies of Win 7 etc., so can anyone explain to me why this repetition of the same thing over and over again. If not does anyone know of a tutorial, book, psychologist, witch, or FBI/CIA operative who can explain it to me?
    Secondly, is there any way to winnow the redundancies down to one instance of each?
    Thirdly, is there any way to make ALL folders views of Details without exceptions/templates/prayers to a higher power?

    In case you don't understand what I'm writing about:

    Explorer Tree: Quick Access: Desktop, Documents, Downloads, Pictures, etc
    Desktop: One Drive, Gomer, This PC, Libraries, etc
    Gomer: Desktop, Documents, Download, Favorites, etc
    This PC: Desktop, Documents, Downloads, Music, etc
    Libraries: Documents, Downloads, Music, etc

    Thank you, and apologies if this is not the proper forum.
      My ComputerSystem Spec

  2.    29 Mar 2016 #2

    Hi, you can simplify what explorer displays a bit if you dig around in the options.

    Conceptually the libraries (note they have a different icon to the actual folder of the same name) could have quite different names. It' just that MS's default is to have a Videos folder in a library called Videos. It didn't have to be like that- maybe it would have been clearer to call Videos (the library) Video Library, for example.

    Desktop- well, what's there is your choice.

    Here's my explorer with libraries not shown, and Quick Access collapsed.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    And all my folders are in details view (unless, say, it's one that contains all mp3's).

    Perhaps what you're referring to is the folder view not remaining consistent.. as you set it? If so, there are a couple of extremely lengthy threads on that sort of topic, which is an issue seen in earlier Windows editions by some.
      My ComputerSystem Spec

  3.    29 Mar 2016 #3

    Thanks for your reply, dalchina,

    It's interesting in that your path shows "this PC/documents" but quick access is highlighted. How'd you do that? I can only get PC/documents when I click on the document folder which is then highlighted..

    Also, you have gotten rid of both Desktop and whatever your User name is - in my case, Gomer is still there,.and Libraries too - below the various drives and above Network

    Yes, I've set up the folder view to eliminate superfluous columns like the Type for example since one can see the type by the extension.and clicked on the setting that says make all folders the same details, but every folder comes up with the generic MS settings that MS thinks are important. It's driving me nuts to have to keep changing the columns - not to mention only being able to change one and the popup closes and I want to eliminate 3 and check others. Is there no central place to change and make one view the default?

    I find Win10 to be a real time waster.

    Again, thanks for your reply.
      My ComputerSystem Spec

  4.    30 Mar 2016 #4

    It's interesting in that your path shows "this PC/documents" but quick access is highlighted. How'd you do that? I can only get PC/documents when I click on the document folder which is then highlighted..
    Odd I agree. Don't know.. not normal. But then, I fiddled with a couple of minor settings at the time to not show libraries for example..

    Also, you have gotten rid of both Desktop and whatever your User name is - in my case, Gomer is still there,.and Libraries too - below the various drives and above Network
    Desktop is there - libraries can be suppressed in the drop-down from Navigation Pane available if you click the View tab

    Yes, I've set up the folder view to eliminate superfluous columns like the Type for example since one can see the type by the extension.and clicked on the setting that says make all folders the same details, but every folder comes up with the generic MS settings that MS thinks are important. It's driving me nuts to have to keep changing the columns - not to mention only being able to change one and the popup closes and I want to eliminate 3 and check others. Is there no central place to change and make one view the default?
    Don't find this an issue. Occasionally I want some other column, but only very occasionally. My settings for explorer don't revert - are consistent. However, reversion to default configuration is reported in several threads here.

    I find Win10 to be a real time waster.
    Not in this respect, but with weird messages like 'Some settings are managed by your organisation', easily broken start menu, Cortana for some users (tho' not for me for many months), a useless start menu that does not properly or correctly express a folder based traditional start menu and does not offer the flexibility of traditional start menus (replace with Classic Shell- fixed), horrible default appearance (see how Qttabbar changes explorer- many options- and I've extended that to the rest with coloured title bars different for active and inactive Windows with Aeroglass), hard to change language settings needing multiple actions to align them to keep Cortana happy- yes, it demands far more attention than it should need. Hence my interest in this forum to stay aware!

    Note: use system restore (disabled by default - why?) and disk imaging to secure and back up your PC and preserve your sanity. (e.g. Macrium Reflect (free) + boot medium + external storage)
      My ComputerSystem Spec


  5. Posts : 1,750
    Windows 10 x86 14383 Insider Pro and Core 10240
       30 Mar 2016 #5

    Windows is based on various multiple redundancy systems: the registry, NTFS, WinSxS, and the user interface with various shells: Commandline: Command.com, CMD.exe, Powershell.exe, Graphical: Explorer.exe, Start, aka Modern aka Metro aka Immersive shell, and Mini systems: Bootmgr, WinPE, WinRE, to name but a few, and then there are redundant action pathways, multiple browsers, Image viewers, text editors, fonts, resource monitors and so on. And all that is before third party replacements and enhancements to system apps and utilities.

    Given the long pedigree of Windows, and the resistance to change by users as evidenced by the deprecation of novel versions such as Windows 8, and Vista, Windows tries to satisfy everybody, and sometimes fails because the User population covers a wide spectrum of humanity, cultures, and experience.

    Nobody will appreciate all the aspects of diversity that Windows offers, as perhaps the old mythical 80% rule of thumb shows - 80% of users never use 80% of the features available.

    That makes 16% of features that perhaps 80% of users will agree are the most useful features of Windows, and 84% of features that 80% of users don't care or know about.

    I'd just like to say to Gomer (Hi, Gomer, welcome to Tenforums ), It won't get any better, unless you make your own OS that does just what you and only you want.

    If you buy a suit off the peg, expect it not to fit perfectly, unless you have a perfect body.
      My ComputersSystem Spec

  6.    30 Mar 2016 #6

    dalchina said: View Post
    Also, you have gotten rid of both Desktop and whatever your User name is - in my case, Gomer is still there,.and Libraries too - below the various drives and above Network
    Desktop is there - libraries can be suppressed in the drop-down from Navigation Pane available if you click the View tab
    Sorry, I wasn't clear about that. I have two Desktops, one just below Quick Access, which when contracted eliminates absolutely everything below it, and one which is like yours just below This PC, which expanded shows the things on the desktop. Also, if I mis-click on Gomer, it expands and yet another instance of Desktop, Documents, et al appears.

    The columns that are relevant (used most frequently) to me are Date Modified, Size, Date Created, and occasionally Author. I'm assuming by your reply, that there is no way to modify what is in default, such as I have on my printer?

    Oh yes, the list of frustrations is long. Explorer does not open when a disk or flash is inserted. Popups asking for one's input/choice (such as when one is copying a file from one place to another) do not pop up on top, forcing one to minimize anything hiding it before one can see it. Yes, the list is very long.

    In any case dalchina, thanks for the tips. I'll try some.
      My ComputerSystem Spec

  7.    30 Mar 2016 #7

    Gomer said: View Post
    1. The columns that are relevant (used most frequently) to me are Date Modified, Size, Date Created, and occasionally Author. I'm assuming by your reply, that there is no way to modify what is in default, such as I have on my printer?

    2. Explorer does not open when a disk or flash is inserted.

    3. Popups asking for one's input/choice (such as when one is copying a file from one place to another) do not pop up on top, forcing one to minimize anything hiding it before one can see it. Yes, the list is very long.
    1. Here I'm assuming you mean you select the columns in details view, then later find these have changed. But you also refer to default - don't understand the reference to printer, sorry.

    If you search this forum for 'folder view' using the search box at the top you will get many results including these:
    Folder View Settings - Reset to Default in Windows 10 - Windows 10 Forums
    Windows 10 not saving my folder view options. - Windows 10 Forums
    Folder Template - Change in Windows 10 - Windows 10 Forums
    Folder view always reverts to 'details' - Windows 10 Forums

    The tutorials are very good- do look thru the Tutorials section. Maybe sthg there that will help.

    2. This is an autoplay issue. Again, an issue I once had long ago, and threads here about it including a registry fix:
    Solved Autoplay won't open in Windows 10. - Windows 10 Forums

    Search 'autoplay' for more.

    3. I've sometimes seen this, maybe not exactly the one you mean. Occasionally I find a utility called Altdrag useful
    AltDrag
    This allows you to drag a window using any visible part of the window- not just the title bar.

    Another thing I always have available is the ability to make windows topmost.. either by Filebox extender or Moo0 Window Menu Plus (freeware).
      My ComputerSystem Spec

  8.    30 Mar 2016 #8

    Please note that I have included comments within this quote. Still learning

    Fafhrd said: View Post
    Windows is based on various multiple redundancy systems: the registry, NTFS, WinSxS, and the user interface with various shells: Commandline: Command.com, CMD.exe, Powershell.exe, Graphical: Explorer.exe, Start, aka Modern aka Metro aka Immersive shell, and Mini systems: Bootmgr, WinPE, WinRE, to name but a few, and then there are redundant action pathways, multiple browsers, Image viewers, text editors, fonts, resource monitors and so on. And all that is before third party replacements and enhancements to system apps and utilities.

    Given the long pedigree of Windows, and the resistance to change by users as evidenced by the deprecation of novel versions such as Windows 8, and Vista, Windows tries to satisfy everybody, and sometimes fails because the User population covers a wide spectrum of humanity, cultures, and experience.

    Ah, well, perhaps the difference comes with whether one uses one's computer as a tool for work, in which case one expects a hammer to be a hammer, and not a hammer that morphs into a spanner, or screwdriver, forcing one to interrupt the flow of one's work to choose which form to use - especially when one only sees a spanmer before one. I have been using computers for 30+ years (actually more if one includes my military use of mainframes), and vanity does not dictate how it is set up for use. (OK maybe vanity drives my choices in which details I like displayed.)

    Nobody will appreciate all the aspects of diversity that Windows offers, as perhaps the old mythical 80% rule of thumb shows - 80% of users never use 80% of the features available.
    Yes, exactly the problems Windows has always had. While it had the power to try and be all things to all people, it also designed for the least sophisticated user, or compromised how efficiently things worked. Imagine if the BBC announcers had to limit their vocabulary to that of an East End lorry driver, rather than aspire to use the King's English.

    Office became the default that everyone had to use as MS conquered the markets, even though Word and Excel were less efficient, and user friendly, versions of word processors and spreadsheets. And (much as Win10, 8, Vista etc have been), MS products have been "modernized" frequently, requiring yet another learning curve period. This is fine if one has lots of time, but productivity falls off as one learns, or relearns how to do simple tasks that one has just gotten used to after the previous revision. Add up all the five minutes one searches to do something that formerly was a simple click, and years of labor, unproductive of the task at hand, are wasted. Modernization is fine if it serves one or solves a problem. Side mirrors which fold in when one parks is a solution to all the wasted hours of having them replaced. But so much of MS has been focused on the vanity aspects.


    That makes 16% of features that perhaps 80% of users will agree are the most useful features of Windows, and 84% of features that 80% of users don't care or know about.
    Yes, unfortunately I am one of the ones who uses 25% of the other 84%.

    I'd just like to say to Gomer (Hi, Gomer, welcome to Tenforums
    0, It won't get any better, unless you make your own OS that does just what you and only you want.
    Of course you are correct, but as I get older with less time to look forward to, I am bothered by it apparently getting worse. And Thank You for the welcome, Fafhrd.

    If you buy a suit off the peg, expect it not to fit perfectly, unless you have a perfect body.
    And you in your hoodie speak to me of suits! While I do have a perfect body, I haven't bought a suit since 1964 while still in the military.

    And by the by, I was quite impressed by the changes I saw last summer when my wife and I returned to Cornwall where I used to have a leather shop (Penzance) years ago. (My heart still lies west of the Tamar.) Of course, there were many of your countrymen and women who were ambivalent about some of the changes. Even though the roads are still as narrow and courtesy is still required when driving them, theirs and my tires didn't appreciate the new razor sharp curbstones recently installed, but the gentlemen at the garage appreciated the influx of capital.


    My wife and I were both impressed as well by the number of windmills and PV panels on farms and buildings - astounding and commendable. Sadly, I struggle to convince my neighbors and politicians of the wisdom of using the sun's free energy. We have heated our home by the sun since building it 18 years ago, and now that the politicians have made it law that the power companies must accept our excess power, I'll be installing PV as well.

    Mind you, the graciousness of the people was still the same. Just think if all the English speaking countries were homogenized into the American or Australian version as MS has done for computers. Wouldn't the world be a less enjoyable place? Cheers-
    Last edited by Gomer; 30 Mar 2016 at 09:40.
      My ComputerSystem Spec

  9.    30 Mar 2016 #9

    dalchina said: View Post
    1. Here I'm assuming you mean you select the columns in details view, then later find these have changed. But you also refer to default - don't understand the reference to printer, sorry.

    My printer has a Default setting that allows me to make the Default Setting to be how it prints in the manner I choose - black and white, 8x11, print preview, etc. Generally, Default means factory settings. In the case of your first link below "Folder View Settings", there is a bat that returns the program to factory defaults, correct? But those are the ones I wish to change to my choices. In Option Two, #3, you see the button I have used to reset all folders to the default/standard/view of my choice. However it doesn't.

    The second link below "Windows 10 not...", seems to work by starting at Documents rather than at an individual file


    If you search this forum for 'folder view' using the search box at the top you will get many results including these:
    Folder View Settings - Reset to Default in Windows 10 - Windows 10 Forums
    Windows 10 not saving my folder view options. - Windows 10 Forums
    Folder Template - Change in Windows 10 - Windows 10 Forums
    Folder view always reverts to 'details' - Windows 10 Forums

    The tutorials are very good- do look thru the Tutorials section. Maybe sthg there that will help.

    2. This is an autoplay issue. Again, an issue I once had long ago, and threads here about it including a registry fix:
    Solved Autoplay won't open in Windows 10. - Windows 10 Forums

    Search 'autoplay' for more.

    3. I've sometimes seen this, maybe not exactly the one you mean. Occasionally I find a utility called Altdrag useful
    AltDrag
    This allows you to drag a window using any visible part of the window- not just the title bar.

    This would not work because any open window in full screen shields the popup completely.

    Another thing I always have available is the ability to make windows topmost.. either by Filebox extender or Moo0 Window Menu Plus (freeware).
    dalchina, thank you, but I tend to shy away from using 3rd party software if at all possible, because it demands resident space, slowing the computer and is just one other thing to cause problems or conflict with another program or AV program.

    Again, thank you for taking the time to reply.
      My ComputerSystem Spec


  10. Posts : 1,750
    Windows 10 x86 14383 Insider Pro and Core 10240
       30 Mar 2016 #10

    Firstly I apologise If I caused offence in my final sentence, I was making an analogy between the "fit" of Windows to an average user (the likes of which never existed), and the fit of a non-bespoke garment to an average body (also non-existent). I should not have used the word "you", and if, by that, I appeared to personalize the statement, it was not intended. Forgive me.

    Ah, well, perhaps the difference comes with whether one uses one's computer as a tool for work, in which case one expects a hammer to be a hammer, and not a hammer that morphs into a spanner, or screwdriver, forcing one to interrupt the flow of one's work to choose which form to use - especially when one only sees a spanmer before one. I have been using computers for 30+ years (actually more if one includes my military use of mainframes), and vanity does not dictate how it is set up for use. (OK maybe vanity drives my choices in which details I like displayed.)
    I too have been working with computers (and users thereof - without which the box with a screen would not do much at all) for 30+ years, and I have never considered them as a single tool, more as a toolkit with almost endless possibilities. I love the word "Spanmer", by the way, may I use it?

    Nobody will appreciate all the aspects of diversity that Windows offers, as perhaps the old mythical 80% rule of thumb shows - 80% of users never use 80% of the features available.

    Yes, exactly the problems Windows has always had. While it had the power to try and be all things to all people, it also designed for the least sophisticated user, or compromised how efficiently things worked. Imagine if the BBC announcers had to limit their vocabulary to that of an East End lorry driver, rather than aspire to use the King's English.
    I agree totally, but sadly not limited to Windows, and the BBC is noticeably dumbed down and the King's English is no more (hurrah!) if one listens. Of East End lorry drivers I know nothing more than I suspect you do, but I would bet the majority of them are multilingual these days.


    Office became the default that everyone had to use as MS conquered the markets, even though Word and Excel were less efficient, and user friendly, versions of word processors and spreadsheets.
    I don't understand this, as I worked with training users in WordPerfect, Lotus, Quattro Pro, AmiPro etc., and found the MS Office products more efficient and user friendly since they were much more integrated and used a common interface, but all the other "Office suite" offerings for Windows remained quirky and frankly buggy.

    And (much as Win10, 8, Vista etc have been), MS products have been "modernized" frequently, requiring yet another learning curve period.
    Its a rule of evolution - learn to change or become a fossil, or to put it another way: "Once you stop learning, you start dying" - Albert Einstein

    Frankly, I have it both ways - I still use Office 97 in preference to Office 365, because it costs me nothing and is screamingly fast, and in the end, no one can tell a document printed from either apart. (and MS Office converter tools still work for docx etc.) Which all adds up to my response to your next statement:

    This is fine if one has lots of time, but productivity falls off as one learns, or relearns how to do simple tasks that one has just gotten used to after the previous revision. Add up all the five minutes one searches to do something that formerly was a simple click, and years of labor, unproductive of the task at hand, are wasted. Modernization is fine if it serves one or solves a problem. Side mirrors which fold in when one parks is a solution to all the wasted hours of having them replaced. But so much of MS has been focused on the vanity aspects.
    Do it the old way if you want - it's all still there for you, nobody has made Windows 7 unavailable to you - yet.


    That makes 16% of features that perhaps 80% of users will agree are the most useful features of Windows, and 84% of features that 80% of users don't care or know about.
    Yes, unfortunately I am one of the ones who uses 25% of the other 84%.
    Good for you, another one of us that is outside the box.

    I'd just like to say to Gomer (Hi, Gomer, welcome to Tenforums), It won't get any better, unless you make your own OS that does just what you and only you want.
    Of course you are correct, but as I get older with less time to look forward to, I am bothered by it apparently getting worse. And Thank You for the welcome, Fafhrd.
    Your'e welcome

    If you buy a suit off the peg, expect it not to fit perfectly, unless you have a perfect body.
    oops!

    And you in your hoodie speak to me of suits! While I do have a perfect body, I haven't bought a suit since 1964 while still in the military.
    You mistake my avatar for my real nature or appearance, it is no more representative of me than the lack of an image on yours is representative of you. I do believe you when you admit to having a perfect body. So do I, and my suits all fit perfectly.

    And by the by, I was quite impressed by the changes I saw last summer when my wife and I returned to Cornwall where I used to have a leather shop (Penzance) years ago. (My heart still lies west of the Tamar.) Of course, there were many of your countrymen and women who were ambivalent about some of the changes. Even though the roads are still as narrow and courtesy is still required when driving them, theirs and my tires didn't appreciate the new razor sharp curbstones recently installed, but the gentlemen at the garage appreciated the influx of capital.
    My wife and I both love Cornwall too.

    My wife and I were both impressed as well by the number of windmills and PV panels on farms and buildings - astounding and commendable. Sadly, I struggle to convince my neighbors and politicians of the wisdom of using the sun's free energy. We have heated our home by the sun since building it 18 years ago, and now that the politicians have made it law that the power companies must accept our excess power, I'll be installing PV as well.
    Solar (heat and PV) is one (good) thing, but mechanical turbines are no less eyesores than pylons IMO, and fail more catastrophically.

    Mind you, the graciousness of the people was still the same. Just think if all the English speaking countries were homogenized into the American or Australian version as MS has done for computers. Wouldn't the world be a less enjoyable place? Cheers-
    I think you may be comparing apples and oranges (probably a bad choice of fruit) Microsoft has done an amazing equalizing act by making computing affordable to the masses, and on the shoulders of the computer industry, the mobile telephone revolution has done even more to make information and education and the ability to create wealth available to members of some of the poorest societies.

    500 years ago, about the only place English was spoken was England, and then with about 200 (I am guessing here) dialects, and I'd bet there are even more today with the influx of new British residents from far flung places. The world would become a less enjoyable place if there were less choice available, not more. Which is kind-of in opposition to the grumble and sentiments I sense were expressed in your initial post. Don't worry about the quotes - I probably was the only one to read it anyway - there is a DR:TL tendency here
      My ComputersSystem Spec


 
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