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  1.    27 Feb 2015 #21
    Join Date : Nov 2013
    Posts : 804
    10 Pro Preview x64

    Quote Originally Posted by whs View Post
    Let's hope you are right. I am looking forward to that easy UI. In Linux I never use the command line.
    If you look in the quote from the head of OneGet team here https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/...tml#post200830 he says
    I don't consider cmdlets the primary way to interact with oneget...in the long term
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  2.    27 Feb 2015 #22
    Join Date : Oct 2013
    A Finnish expat in Germany
    Posts : 12,692
    Windows 10 Pro

    Adam, Vincent is not in OneGet team, he is a network admin in some bigger company and his comment as seen in the screenshot you were referring to should be taken as such, an opinion from a corporate network admin with nothing to do with Microsoft who regularly takes part in these OneGet community meetings.

    The opinion of his is though valid, of course, and shared by many; there should be and I am quite sure will be a GUI. I agree totally, although quite often I find myself opposing Vincent's opinions for instance about importance of fully functioning update / uninstall modules.
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  3.    27 Feb 2015 #23

    Hi there

    Again this is Ms going a bit "Schidzoid" in having two different systems to do the same thing. As I said the main problem with the store apart from being filled with useless rubbish apps is that it will be almost impossible to select specific versions of apps if you want to install a previous version for those cases where the latest version doesn't work or for some other reason you don't like it and want the older versin back.

    The Linux repository system is well proven and really easy. Whether it's YUM / YAST or whatever there's usually a decent GUI and the package manager ensures all the correct pieces of the package (with any dependencies) are installed correctly into your system.

    Removing software is usually quite easy too these days -- things like the YUM-EXTENDER GUI have remove functionality as well

    Here's another screenshot of the YUM GUI I'm using on CENTOS 7.

    really easy to use. Windows needs something EASY like this - anybody who's not even technical can usually get to grips with this type of package management system. There's a decent log as well when you install / remove packages if on the rare occasion you do get a problem. I've been lucky - I haven't had one so far. I use the CENTOS system as my main file, print, multi-media server every day with sone Windows VM's on it such as W10 - I'm posting this from W10 VM on the Host Linux centos server.

    Cheers
    jimbo
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails snapshot11.png  
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  4.    27 Feb 2015 #24
    Join Date : Oct 2013
    A Finnish expat in Germany
    Posts : 12,692
    Windows 10 Pro

    I really dislike these "Oh it's so difficult" and "Why is that so and not so" discussions. What follows is a rant, jump to next post please, I am posting this mostly for posterity and my sanity.

    I can understand the MS logics regarding this matter. The Store must be easy to use, getting apps not requiring a high school diploma, but at the same time they want to give corporate users (network admins) tools to do their job. They prefer a method, even manual method, which allows them to setup the reference images fast and with as little user interference as possible. Key in your command and go get some coffee while OneGet, NuGet or any similar service does the job, reliably and in a secure standardized way.

    As the development of for instance OneGet then got further, somebody noticed that it could also be developed to a tool for if not every user but at least with few modifications to advanced private users. This is where we are now, today. We have this marvelous tool for preparing production images which can easily be used for customizing the app installation part of image creation. Both in corporate world but also in home networks and computers. The private users can also start deploying instead of installing, tools are there and they are easy to use.

    I for sure will see this OneGet stuff to the end and try to be part of it as much as I can. Using Sysprep and Audit Mode as an example, my personal goal is to do with OneGet here at Ten Forums what I have been trying to do with Sysprep and Audit Mode at Seven and Eight Forums; demystify OneGet, get it out from the corporate world to normal users and with tutorials and posts try to show how easy it is to use if you forget your prejudiced way of thinking . Even if I say so I think I have done pretty good job with demystifying Sysprep, I see no reason why it could not be done with OneGet. Of course there will always be those who are not willing to try, only reason being "I've never tried that, done that, I do not want to do it".

    Honestly, I am laughing and almost crying at the same time when I read these "It's so difficult, nobody will use it" comments. How bloody difficult it is to type Install-Package GoogleChrome, Opera, Firefox, Maxthon to get 4 browsers installed? Or Install-Package VLC, AdobeReader, 7Zip to install a media player, PDF reader and archiving program with one simple command, with no "Click Next, click Accept, Would you like to install this toolbar" and such.

    It's funny that these same people who see the above as the most difficult tasks they have ever heard about do not complain about use of SFC /SCANNOW with repeated scans or any variations of DISM or how to edit the boot records or create a system image or do a repair install or whatnot. Which in fact proves my point: OneGet in PowerShell, Start Screen in Windows 8, Start Menu in Windows 10, they all have something in common: they are new. As there are people who never leave their home town or when they do, they always travel to same destination, as there are people who still drive that 79 Subaru because it's the only car they have known, as there are people who refuse to taste anything new, anything that their mama did not make, there will always be these people who oppose new only because it is new. "We have always done like this, no reason to change it."

    Personally I am quite proud that a month short of my 56th birthday I am still keenly inspecting and studying everything new. I have adopted every new OS from Microsoft and instead of starting complaining about it, studied it and set a goal to find and try as much new as possible. Maybe that's the reason why MS has never disappointed me with their new OS; I have always, since Windows 1 liked the new version more than the predecessor. Yes, Vista, too. I liked Vista much more than XP. And no, my statement excludes Windows ME but only because I never tried it.

    I do not believe I have liked every new MS OS more than the one it was supposed to replace because of incredible luck, that MS accidentally found every time exactly the way to change the OS which at that moment suited me. No, I believe that I have liked every new MS OS because I have decided not to give up, decided to find out how the new OS works and give it a chance, instead of rolling in self-pity thinking "Oh why did they change that? It's always been like this! I don't like changes."

    Over and out.
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  5.    27 Feb 2015 #25

    Hi there

    I like the idea of one get -- all I'm saying is that so long as there's a reasonable method of retrieving specific versions (or at least the current (0) and the previous(-1) version of software) that installs with a decent audit trail and manages all the dependencies sensibly then I certainly will give it a go.

    I'm basically AGAINST making it TOO simple since if there is any error it becomes almost impossible to fix.

    As for trying new things -- well I'm not afraid -- got my PPL (Private Pilot's License with night flying / instrument rating) at over 50 and am also keen to try out microlites !!!.

    Cheers
    jimbo
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  6.    27 Feb 2015 #26
    Join Date : Oct 2013
    A Finnish expat in Germany
    Posts : 12,692
    Windows 10 Pro

    Jimbo, please believe me when I say that my rant was not targeting any member of our forums in general and you in particular. I just suddenly had enough about this eternal Why Seven? XP was good! Why Eight? Seven was good! Why Ten? Eight was good! Why OneGet? I have to type 20 characters! Why this, why that, why anything new.

    The rant was for my own sanity, not against anyone .
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  7.    27 Feb 2015 #27
    Join Date : Oct 2013
    Posts : 1,962
    Windows 7

    I believe that I have liked every new MS OS because I have decided not to give up, decided to find out how the new OS works and give it a chance, instead of rolling in self-pity thinking "Oh why did they change that? It's always been like this! I don't like changes."
    Kari, that attitude is fine for guys like us who like to tinker with operating systems. But think about the hundreds of millions 'normal' users that just want to get their tasks done. They have no interest to monkey around with the OS and will quickly give up if you disorient them too much.

    You would not believe how simple a change discombobulates simple users. I see that all the time in my computer club. The members are stunned by the smallest changes and walk away in frustration. To give you an example of what is being tought at the club in a 2 hour session, here is the class description of one class:

    In this session, you will learn how to copy and paste, which will enable you to copy anything you find on the internet and then save it in a file on your computer. Did you find a good recipe or maybe a joke that you would like to save. You will also learn how to make a new folder.

      My ComputerSystem Spec
  8.    27 Feb 2015 #28
    Join Date : Oct 2013
    A Finnish expat in Germany
    Posts : 12,692
    Windows 10 Pro

    I can understand what you say Wolfgang but I do not agree with the conclusion that kind of thinking leads to.

    Should we only make popular music because big part of the humans do not understand classical? Should we only make sitcoms and talent shows for TV because, let's be honest, a simple episode of Murder She Wrote not to speak about a film by Kubrick or televised play from Shakespeare are, to put it as kindly as I can, too difficult to understand for quite a lot of the people? Should we only publish comics and yellow press tabloids because, again sorry my honesty, a lot of people really are too stupid to understand politics, economy and world news? Should football be the only accepted form of "culture" because, again, let's face the truth the great masses don't give s*** about theater, opera, arts and so on?

    Computers, software, operating systems, they cannot be designed according to the needs of these people. Sorry, I am just saying aloud what many think. Majority of computer users would have no issues in adapting in new technology if the biggest barrier ("I hate change!") could be removed.
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  9.    27 Feb 2015 #29
    Join Date : Sep 2014
    UK
    Posts : 88
    Windows 8.1 Pro x64

    Quote Originally Posted by Kari View Post
    I really dislike these "Oh it's so difficult" and "Why is that so and not so" discussions. What follows is a rant, jump to next post please, I am posting this mostly for posterity and my sanity.

    I can understand the MS logics regarding this matter. The Store must be easy to use, getting apps not requiring a high school diploma, but at the same time they want to give corporate users (network admins) tools to do their job. They prefer a method, even manual method, which allows them to setup the reference images fast and with as little user interference as possible. Key in your command and go get some coffee while OneGet, NuGet or any similar service does the job, reliably and in a secure standardized way.

    As the development of for instance OneGet then got further, somebody noticed that it could also be developed to a tool for if not every user but at least with few modifications to advanced private users. This is where we are now, today. We have this marvelous tool for preparing production images which can easily be used for customizing the app installation part of image creation. Both in corporate world but also in home networks and computers. The private users can also start deploying instead of installing, tools are there and they are easy to use.

    I for sure will see this OneGet stuff to the end and try to be part of it as much as I can. Using Sysprep and Audit Mode as an example, my personal goal is to do with OneGet here at Ten Forums what I have been trying to do with Sysprep and Audit Mode at Seven and Eight Forums; demystify OneGet, get it out from the corporate world to normal users and with tutorials and posts try to show how easy it is to use if you forget your prejudiced way of thinking . Even if I say so I think I have done pretty good job with demystifying Sysprep, I see no reason why it could not be done with OneGet. Of course there will always be those who are not willing to try, only reason being "I've never tried that, done that, I do not want to do it".

    Honestly, I am laughing and almost crying at the same time when I read these "It's so difficult, nobody will use it" comments. How bloody difficult it is to type Install-Package GoogleChrome, Opera, Firefox, Maxthon to get 4 browsers installed? Or Install-Package VLC, AdobeReader, 7Zip to install a media player, PDF reader and archiving program with one simple command, with no "Click Next, click Accept, Would you like to install this toolbar" and such.

    It's funny that these same people who see the above as the most difficult tasks they have ever heard about do not complain about use of SFC /SCANNOW with repeated scans or any variations of DISM or how to edit the boot records or create a system image or do a repair install or whatnot. Which in fact proves my point: OneGet in PowerShell, Start Screen in Windows 8, Start Menu in Windows 10, they all have something in common: they are new. As there are people who never leave their home town or when they do, they always travel to same destination, as there are people who still drive that 79 Subaru because it's the only car they have known, as there are people who refuse to taste anything new, anything that their mama did not make, there will always be these people who oppose new only because it is new. "We have always done like this, no reason to change it."

    Personally I am quite proud that a month short of my 56th birthday I am still keenly inspecting and studying everything new. I have adopted every new OS from Microsoft and instead of starting complaining about it, studied it and set a goal to find and try as much new as possible. Maybe that's the reason why MS has never disappointed me with their new OS; I have always, since Windows 1 liked the new version more than the predecessor. Yes, Vista, too. I liked Vista much more than XP. And no, my statement excludes Windows ME but only because I never tried it.

    I do not believe I have liked every new MS OS more than the one it was supposed to replace because of incredible luck, that MS accidentally found every time exactly the way to change the OS which at that moment suited me. No, I believe that I have liked every new MS OS because I have decided not to give up, decided to find out how the new OS works and give it a chance, instead of rolling in self-pity thinking "Oh why did they change that? It's always been like this! I don't like changes."

    Over and out.
    Well not everyone will have things your way since everyone is entitled to their own opinion so people say win8 sucks or win10 is the best is just their opinion so please users shouldn't get offended unless they have a legit reason why its better.
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  10.    27 Feb 2015 #30
    Join Date : Oct 2013
    Posts : 1,962
    Windows 7

    Quote Originally Posted by Kari View Post
    I can understand what you say Wolfgang but I do not agree with the conclusion that kind of thinking leads to.

    Should we only make popular music because big part of the humans do not understand classical? Should we only make sitcoms and talent shows for TV because, let's be honest, a simple episode of Murder She Wrote not to speak about a film by Kubrick or televised play from Shakespeare are, to put it as kindly as I can, too difficult to understand for quite a lot of the people? Should we only publish comics and yellow press tabloids because, again sorry my honesty, a lot of people really are too stupid to understand politics, economy and world news? Should football be the only accepted form of "culture" because, again, let's face the truth the great masses don't give s*** about theater, opera, arts and so on?

    Computers, software, operating systems, they cannot be designed according to the needs of these people. Sorry, I am just saying aloud what many think. Majority of computer users would have no issues in adapting in new technology if the biggest barrier ("I hate change!") could be removed.
    Kari, I have no issue with what you are saying. But my conclusion from your logic is that operating systems are for elite users and the plain folks just have to adapt or get lost.

    Well, we have seen what that leads to with the sales of 8 and 8.1 and I am afraid the same will happen with 10. You cannot go by the enthusiasm of the gurus on a forum like this. Check with normal folks who just want to do mail, skype and social networks - maybe a bit of office type work too.

    I can deal with any OS - I have been involved with many operating systems since 1961. But the girls and guys of my computer club have trouble if an icon on the desktop moves from the left to the right. I don't think they hate change, they are just not wired for that stuff.
      My ComputerSystem Spec

 
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