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  1.    26 Jan 2015 #1
    Join Date : Jan 2015
    Posts : 167
    Windows 7 Ultimate 64

    Free Windows 10 upgrade a permanent license?


    Is it known whether the serial of an upgraded Windows 7 or 8 will become affiliated with MS as being a Windows 10 serial, so that the license owner may reinstall Windows 10 after a format or machine-license transfer, including beyond the 1-year period for free Windows 10 upgrades?


    I clicked the "Mark [thread] as solved" button for fun, but now I can't unmark it as re-unsolved. Oh wait, yes I can, good.
      My ComputerSystem Spec

  2.    26 Jan 2015 #2

    this is a subject of debate, no one seems to have an answer
      My ComputerSystem Spec

  3.    26 Jan 2015 #3

    Hi there

    This might be an interesting test.

    Install Windows 7 on a machine. DO NOT ACTIVATE - remember unlike W8 / W8.1 you can use W7 for 30 days before activation.

    Upgrade that machine to W10.

    Try now and install the windows 7 system on another machine (again don't activate).

    Upgrade machine 2 to W10. !!!!.

    Now while this "technically" could be against the EULA I wonder if it will work -- that way you could get some "Free" extra W10 systems.

    You'd probably need the original retail W7 iso's to do this though.

    If the Ms servers had any sense (but they probably won't judging by past experience) the upgrade should validate W7 BEFORE upgrading which presumably means registering W7. As you'll probably have to upgrade via the Internet the trick migfht not work.

    I'll be interested in having a test though when RTM comes out.

    Cheers
    jimbo
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  4.    26 Jan 2015 #4
    Join Date : Jan 2015
    Posts : 167
    Windows 7 Ultimate 64
    Thread Starter

    If MS reads these forums, they ought to consider the problems it would cause many people to upgrade, create projects in Windows 10 software, then have to reinstall due to a failed disk, virus, or other reason, and suddenly be locked out of Windows 10 because the 1-year period for free upgrades has passed.

    If MS is going to offer the free upgrade, then they should be responsible with it and count that upgrade as real and permanent. Otherwise, it is really only a temporal trial, not a free upgrade, with its trial period expiring any time that system hardware changes or a reinstall is required.

    To not honour the words of "free upgrade" could also create bad will towards MS, and also much confusion among non power-user home owners.

    MS probably wants people to upgrade mostly because of the inbuilt MS market, from which MS will take a share of all sales. If MS get hung up on Windows 10 ticket prices it will create a barrier to MS receiving revenue from their store, and will create a convoluted mess for people who take "free upgrade" at face value, not expecting to be later potentially blackmailed into purchasing a W10 copy to access their data should the original upgrade ever need reinstalling.

    Of course, in situations of doubt, savvy users will just make a disk image immediately after clean install / upgrade and store it for whenever it's needed. But those users are fewer and aren't the ones who could be at risk to be bitten by accepting a free upgrade offer to W10.

    I think that there is only one solution that will not fragment and confuse the market, and MS' Windows Store hopes.
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  5.    26 Jan 2015 #5
    Join Date : Nov 2013
    Idaho USA
    Posts : 4,826
    OS X, Win 10

    Quote Originally Posted by Delicieuxz View Post
    If MS reads these forums, they ought to consider the problems it would cause many people to upgrade, create projects in Windows 10 software, then have to reinstall due to a failed disk, virus, or other reason, and suddenly be locked out of Windows 10 because the 1-year period for free upgrades has passed.

    If MS is going to offer the free upgrade, then they should be responsible with it and count that upgrade as real and permanent. Otherwise, it is really only a temporal trial, not a free upgrade, with its trial period expiring any time that system hardware changes or a reinstall is required.

    To not honour the words of "free upgrade" could also create bad will towards MS, and also much confusion among non power-user home owners.

    MS probably wants people to upgrade mostly because of the inbuilt MS market, from which MS will take a share of all sales. If MS get hung up on Windows 10 ticket prices it will create a barrier to MS receiving revenue from their store, and will create a convoluted mess for people who take "free upgrade" at face value, not expecting to be later potentially blackmailed into purchasing a W10 copy to access their data should the original upgrade ever need reinstalling.

    Of course, in situations of doubt, savvy users will just make a disk image immediately after clean install / upgrade and store it for whenever it's needed. But those users are fewer and aren't the ones who could be at risk to be bitten by accepting a free upgrade offer to W10.

    I think that there is only one solution that will not fragment and confuse the market, and MS' Windows Store hopes.
    Highlighted area. . .Why should they. They didn't cause the problem. You choice to install whatever it was you wanted, not MS. Hence, it is your problem What is it that makes folks think that MS should take care of all the problems people create when installing parts or software. MS didn't force you to install that stuff you choice to do so, so you need to take the responsibility.
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  6.    26 Jan 2015 #6
    Join Date : Jan 2015
    Posts : 167
    Windows 7 Ultimate 64
    Thread Starter

    Quote Originally Posted by Lee View Post
    Highlighted area. . .Why should they. They didn't cause the problem. You choice to install whatever it was you wanted, not MS. Hence, it is your problem What is it that makes folks think that MS should take care of all the problems people create when installing parts or software. MS didn't force you to install that stuff you choice to do so, so you need to take the responsibility.
    MS' offer of a free upgrade sends the signal that MS actually wants people to upgrade, and not 'hey, it's totally your call, figure it out yourself'. Some home users will feel that MS' beckoning to upgrade is also MS' pledge that users will be most secure by trusting in MS' calling.

    For those who find themselves stuck later on, you are likely to hear them say that MS did cause the hypothetical problems, and perhaps that they thought they were doing the responsible thing by trusting MS' appeal to upgrade as being a promise of experience safety.

    To users who understand the free upgrade offer as being made with no undisclosed strings attached (which a 1-time-only install would make for), if it is later discovered that they cannot access their W10 data after a failure, the upgrade offer will likely seem like a bait and switch.

    I would agree with that sentiment, and it is only because there is some existing distrusting sentiment by me towards MS, and also general not-forthright commercial practices, that this matter is begging to be questioned.

    For the adage of "you need to take the responsibility" to apply, MS' words would need to shift from 'free upgrade offer for the first year' to '1-time-only install offer for the first year'. The words mean different things, and for MS to use one is for MS to need to take responsibility for it and live up to those words. An upgrade that reverts is not an upgrade, because it's only using a borrowed experience.



    MS wants people to use W10 and its inbuilt market. To invite people in to that environment, and then later lock them out, would not be behaving responsibly towards the initial invitation and the purpose why it was being made (presuming Windows market purchases are a central part of its purpose).
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  7.    26 Jan 2015 #7
    Join Date : Nov 2013
    Idaho USA
    Posts : 4,826
    OS X, Win 10

    Quote Originally Posted by Delicieuxz View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lee View Post
    Highlighted area. . .Why should they. They didn't cause the problem. You choice to install whatever it was you wanted, not MS. Hence, it is your problem What is it that makes folks think that MS should take care of all the problems people create when installing parts or software. MS didn't force you to install that stuff you choice to do so, so you need to take the responsibility.
    MS' offer of a free upgrade sends the signal that MS actually wants people to upgrade, and not 'hey, it's totally your call, figure it out yourself'. Some home users will feel that MS' beckoning to upgrade is also MS' pledge that users will be most secure by trusting in MS' calling.

    For those who find themselves stuck later on, you are likely to hear them say that MS did cause the hypothetical problems, and perhaps that they thought they were doing the responsible thing by trusting MS' appeal to upgrade as being a promise of experience safety.

    To users who understand the free upgrade offer as being made with no undisclosed strings attached (which a 1-time-only install would make for), if it is later discovered that they cannot access their W10 data after a failure, the upgrade offer will likely seem like a bait and switch.

    I would agree with that sentiment, and it is only because there is some existing distrusting sentiment by me towards MS, and also general not-forthright commercial practices, that this matter is begging to be questioned.

    For the adage of "you need to take the responsibility" to apply, MS' words would need to shift from 'free upgrade offer for the first year' to '1-time-only install offer for the first year'. The words mean different things, and for MS to use one is for MS to need to take responsibility and live up to those words.
    Again you are choosing to do the free upgrade, hence take the responsibility. What you do is not Microsoft's fault it is your own so own it. . .
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  8.    26 Jan 2015 #8
    Join Date : Jan 2015
    Posts : 167
    Windows 7 Ultimate 64
    Thread Starter

    An upgrade that reverts is not an upgrade, because it's only a borrowed experience. If a person chooses to upgrade, that's their choice - and if MS chooses to use the word free upgrade then that's MS' choice. Those words have meaning that don't imply a temporary trial that disappears later on. It's only mistrust of business practices that brings scepticism towards the concept.
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  9.    26 Jan 2015 #9
    Join Date : Dec 2013
    Sydney, Nova Scotia, Canada
    Posts : 10,585
    Windows 10 IoT

    Quote Originally Posted by jimbo45 View Post
    Hi there

    This might be an interesting test.

    Install Windows 7 on a machine. DO NOT ACTIVATE - remember unlike W8 / W8.1 you can use W7 for 30 days before activation.

    Upgrade that machine to W10.

    Try now and install the windows 7 system on another machine (again don't activate).

    Upgrade machine 2 to W10. !!!!.

    Now while this "technically" could be against the EULA I wonder if it will work -- that way you could get some "Free" extra W10 systems.

    You'd probably need the original retail W7 iso's to do this though.

    If the Ms servers had any sense (but they probably won't judging by past experience) the upgrade should validate W7 BEFORE upgrading which presumably means registering W7. As you'll probably have to upgrade via the Internet the trick migfht not work.

    I'll be interested in having a test though when RTM comes out.

    Cheers
    jimbo
    I'd be very surprised if Microsoft would let you upgrade from a system that wasn't activated and that didn't pass the Windows Genuine Advantage. Just my opinion mind you. Right now you can't upgrade to Pro unless your 8.x Core is activated. Same deal when adding Media center, Pro has to be activated. I can see them continuing with that trend.
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  10.    26 Jan 2015 #10
    Join Date : Dec 2013
    Sydney, Nova Scotia, Canada
    Posts : 10,585
    Windows 10 IoT

    Quote Originally Posted by Delicieuxz View Post
    Is it known whether the serial of an upgraded Windows 7 or 8 will become affiliated with MS as being a Windows 10 serial, so that the license owner may reinstall Windows 10 after a format or machine-license transfer, including beyond the 1-year period for free Windows 10 upgrades?


    I clicked the "Mark [thread] as solved" button for fun, but now I can't unmark it as re-unsolved. Oh wait, yes I can, good.
    Can't be done in all cases. Factory OEM Windows 7 installs use a common OEM key for that manufacturer. If you take to identical PC's, same make and model with factory OEM installs of say Windows 7 Home Premium. They will be using the same product code. The codes on the COA stickers will be different but those aren't the actual codes being used to activate the PC. That one product code could be in use on hundreds or thousands of PC's, or more. It's the same deal for each manufacturer, they each have a master code for each version of Windows 7 they install on their PC's. It would work for retail installs, each key is different and can only be used on one PC at any one time.
      My ComputerSystem Spec


 
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