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  1.    26 Jan 2015 #61
    Join Date : Jan 2014
    Carencro, LA 70520
    Posts : 8,470
    Mint 18.3

    Yep that is the carrot that M$ is using to get a user base. Right now M$ would have a hard time giving away W8.x
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  2.    26 Jan 2015 #62
    Join Date : Dec 2014
    Posts : 437
    Windows 10 Pro x64

    Quote Originally Posted by whs View Post
    I have now been playing around with the 10TP for quite a while. It is a nice system and with the latest January edition it seems to be pretty stable - although some of the OEMs seemed to not have caught up yet. But that is not a Microsoft problem.

    The question I ask myself is why would I give up W7 and go with W10 on my desktop. I have not yet discovered any facilities that would make me swing to W10. The Cortina voice I have switched off and I have no use for OneDrive in that form. What else is there that would be a strong incentive to switch ?? Opinions are very welcome.
    Haven't read through this thread but here is my answer.

    Because Windows 10 will keep up with the technology and performance curve. Windows 7 will not. Already windows 7 is behind the curve in supporting advances like UASP for better USB 3 performance, Storage spaces is better than Windows 7 implementation of RAID, etc. And for me, user and admin interfaces are superior overall - like the new task manager. And these will certainly evolve to be better (cup half full).
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  3.    27 Jan 2015 #63
    Join Date : Nov 2013
    Idaho USA
    Posts : 4,826
    OS X, Win 10

    Quote Originally Posted by labeeman View Post
    Yep that is the carrot that M$ is using to get a user base. Right now M$ would have a hard time giving away W8.x
    What, if you give something away free then they will come running. . .
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  4.    27 Jan 2015 #64

    Quote Originally Posted by Mystere View Post

    This argument buries ones head in the sand and assumes that Desktop apps as they are today will always be the primary way the OS is used. In fact, each successive release of Windows, this becomes less and less the case. In fact, you cannot even use Windows 10 without using Metro anymore because key functionality has been moved to Modern apps, such as Windows Update, many pieces of Control Panel (user management, network management, etc, you can't even connect to a WiFi router anymore without using a Modern App).

    Modern apps are the new API for Windows, and eventually... maybe not this release, or the next, but eventually there won't be any standard desktop functionality left. Yes, there will still be standard Win32 apps for a decade or more to come, but these will run in a virtualized mode most likely.

    Stop pretending that the Modern apps are a Fad and will go away. They aren't. They Won't. They will just get more prevalent. This is the future, and the future is sort of-kind-of here now.

    So, the point of that statement is.. No, you can't install windows Without them. They are part of windows.. it's like installing without the desktop, or installing without File Explorer. You can certainly hack them out after the fact, but you're not going to get Microsoft to willingly lobotomize it's baby out of the box.

    Quote Originally Posted by ssn650 View Post
    - I couldn't select Google as the default search provider for the Windows Search utility in the task bar
    You do realize that Microsoft doesn't write the search providers for IE, right? The various companies that provide them do. I'm sure when Google provides a search provider for this, they will include it.

    Quote Originally Posted by ssn650 View Post
    - I installed Classic Shell to add some transparency to the dull task bar, but Windows kept blocking my scheduled task and wouldn't let the program load at startup. Another program I'd tried to load via Task Scheduler was blocked with an error message to the effect that the system administrator couldn't authorize its use
    This happens every time they make major changes to the menu. It takes some time for the App vendor to fix their app to make it work correctly. And, when it does, you can then use it. It's blocked because the app doesn't work completely.

    Quote Originally Posted by ssn650 View Post
    - Battery life was at best equivalent to my experience in Windows 7 but probably worse, since there were a heck of a lot of programs running in the background and I couldn't render any Modern UI Apps inactive as in Windows 8.1
    This sounds like a huge assumption. Just because you have more processes doesn't mean its using more CPU power. Most of those processes could be sitting idle doing nothing and using no more power than if they weren't there at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by ssn650 View Post
    - In standby mode the computer slept for around 10 minutes, woke up and "phoned home" to Microsoft and then went back to sleep. Having no control over what was being forwarded to Redmond gave me an uneasy feeling.
    You're using beta software that sends telemetry to Microsoft. That's the price of getting it for free. If you don't like it, don't use it. Microsoft clearly outlines the data they collect in their privacy agreement.

    Quote Originally Posted by ssn650 View Post
    - Having two Windows Store applications, neither of which worked consistently, as well as two Control Panels just proves that this operating system is in transition. With Windows Update missing from the Control Panel I felt I'd lost more control over my system, especially when others have reported that drivers are constantly being installed against their will.
    Of course it's in transition... nobody ever said otherwise. It's going to be years before this conversion to Full Modern is complete. You're arguing about something that is not only obvious, but has been flat out said and roadmaps created...

    I'd say something about Captain Obvious, but you don't get those commercials over there i'm sure...

    Quote Originally Posted by ssn650 View Post
    - Cortana could be an incentive to upgrade if she can't be made backward compatible, but after pronouncing my name correctly after I'd set her up I never heard from her again. And forcing me to sign in to a MS Account just to have the pleasure of chatting with (OK, I admit it) that sexy gal isn't fair. I suppose even if she had responded once I'd gotten past the flirting stage I'd have signed off for good.
    You have to have a MS account (that doesn't mean you have to have a MS email account) to use most Modern features, including the store. The same is true of Apple's Mac Store, and Siri as well. The same is true of Google's Ok Google...

    What you don't know is that your computer is not powerful enough to host Cortana on its own, nor are the phones that use it. Cortana is cloud-based service, and when you speak to her, your voice is transmitted to the cloud to be analyzed by powerful clusters of computers with Petabytes of data behind them. These services are designed to work with your preferences, to know who you are, and track what you like... That's how they work, and what they're designed for. Some people like that, some people don't... Regardless, it's irrational to expect that functionality from your disconnected PC.

    Quote Originally Posted by ssn650 View Post
    - Since I don't have a Windows phone or other device that could profit from Continuum, and I'd prefer to stay away from "the cloud", OneDrive doesn't really excite me either.
    Until your hard drive crashes and you lose all your documents and pictures... OneDrive is just like DropBox or iCloud or Google Drive... Network backup, and they give you a good chunk of space for free.

    Quote Originally Posted by ssn650 View Post
    To sum up, Microsoft's insistence on Modern UI applications, Bing everything, OneDrive integration, privacy invasion and overriding my own attempts at customization as "unapproved" make me feel relieved when I wipe my hard drive and restore that good ole Windows 7 backup.
    Most of your complaints are related to things that are only in place because of the preview. Mandatory updates, mandatory telemetry, etc.. Your other complaints are either of the "Grrr.. get off my lawn you young whippersnappers" variety or lack a fundamental understanding of the way they function, and the usefulness (or lack therof) of said functions in isolation. Maybe it's just me, but maybe you should have read your Preview Agreement and Privacy agreement before downloading and installing this.. Or maybe you just aren't cut out for being a previewer.
    Hi there

    My main argument against Metro apps isn't against the actual apps themselves but the fact that on a desktop - especially with several LARGE Monitors I don't want to be restricted to working always in Full screen mode (if at all).

    I'm often doing various different things concurrently and cutting / pasting bits from one application into another.

    Imagine in a 3D CAD package if you could only work in single full screen mode --it would be impossible to extract part of the drawing while referencing another part (unless you printed stuff all over the place). With windowed operation I can plonk one part of the drawing on one monitor and another on a second monitor (or as a second window on the fist monitor).

    Having fixed 1/4 or 1/2 screen windows is BONKERS when we all have different screen sizes and different resolutions.

    Dynamically updating the data in a window is fine but the windows must IMO be re-sizeable and moveable. Then I could use "modern apps" but they don't work for me now in any shape or form on a desktop.

    Cheers
    jimbo
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  5.    27 Jan 2015 #65
    Join Date : Nov 2013
    Posts : 804
    10 Pro Preview x64

    Quote Originally Posted by whs View Post
    The question I ask myself is why would I give up W7 and go with W10 on my desktop. I have not yet discovered any facilities that would make me swing to W10. The Cortina voice I have switched off and I have no use for OneDrive in that form. What else is there that would be a strong incentive to switch ?? Opinions are very welcome.
    Your question is backwards. Why not? It is a free upgrade and it is smaller (if either matters). You don't have to use the parts you don't like. If you don't upgrade and something you actually do want is only developed on 10 and isn't back-ported for the old versions you'll have to pay to upgrade if you don't do it within a year of launch.

    Now if you truly think 10 is worse than 7 then don't - lots of people thought 8 start menu was too confusing for them and if it was for them then it was. Not for me to say.

    Don't complain after the free upgrade period when no new development is being done for 7 though. Perhaps Sparten will be good. Perhaps not. Will MS write it for 7? Will they rewrite anything new and (possibly) interesting for 7?
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  6.    27 Jan 2015 #66
    Join Date : Oct 2014
    Posts : 1,555
    W7 32 bit, Linux Mint Xfce 18 64 bit

    adamf,
    7 is still supported to 2020
    Surprise no new development is being done for Windows 7 by Microsoft.
    Virus protection makers will support Windows 7 to 2020 and some even longer that, heard of clamav? If it doesn't work you can usually find an older version you can download & use because those can still update the virus definition files.
    I.E., Firefox, Google Chrome will support Windows 7 till at least 2020 and even longer than that in some cases.
    If Adobe flash dies, html5 will take the place of that and still work in windows 7 third party browsers.

    You ask why not?
    What if it is a catch22? You upgrade & you can't go back. I know Brink says you can always go back but I have seen several post with that concern. They also got to make the free upgrade easier to install and a way to get it again for free after the free upgrade expires if your system crashes or you change hard drive or something else that cause you have to reinstall. Not everyone is technically like us. That why Microsoft needs to send an upgrade USB flashdrive 2.0 drive or Upgrade DVD disk per Microsoft email account would be a lot better. Believe or not there are still people on dial-up because that all they can get.


    What if you don't like the themes? For me, I need a gray theme including application background--It didn't work to well in Windows 10 preview when I tried it out. I also need something I can read the print.



    Jimbo45,

    Having fixed 1/4 or 1/2 screen windows is BONKERS when we all have different screen sizes and different resolutions.
    Are you saying you can't resize explorer windows in window 10? If so, I agree. I work on multiple application at the same time.
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  7.    27 Jan 2015 #67
    Join Date : Oct 2013
    Posts : 1,962
    Windows 7
    Thread Starter

    I am so glad this discussion became such a lively interchange of ideas. I myself am really not yet sure what I am going to do next year but the ideas brought forward certainly help to clear the fog. But then we still have so much time to discuss. So don't stop making good pro and con arguments.
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  8.    27 Jan 2015 #68
    Join Date : Oct 2014
    Posts : 1,555
    W7 32 bit, Linux Mint Xfce 18 64 bit

    Quote Originally Posted by whs View Post
    I am so glad this discussion became such a lively interchange of ideas. I myself am really not yet sure what I am going to do next year but the ideas brought forward certainly help to clear the fog. But then we still have so much time to discuss. So don't stop making good pro and con arguments.
    You know what is going to happen don't you but you can't say yet per NDA.
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  9.    27 Jan 2015 #69
    Join Date : Oct 2013
    North West Indianapolis, Indiana
    Posts : 450
    Windows 7 Ultimate 64 Bit and VM

    One thing I can say works very well indeed in Windows 10 9926 is the uninstall roll back routine. I have tried it out on a Windows 7 Ultimate laptop and Windows 8.1 with Media Center on a loaded powerful desktop which dual booted with 7 Ultimate. In both cases aside from a couple of icons which did not return to the taskbar the previous OS was restored flawlessly. At least that part of Windows 10 works very well. In fact some of you are making comments that we'll all have to get with the program or get left behind? Perhaps Microsoft is going to far with its views on exactly what an OS is. They want to to monetize it (their words not mine). By not moving in large numbers from 7 to 8 we caused a back pedal and rewrite and 8.1 to be released. Still not moving from 7 in vast numbers and Microsoft has decided it is done with 8 and is moving on to 10 as there is the nasty taste of 8 left behind. Frankly I see no benefit in my case to move to 10 even if it is free if it is going to be full of crapps which I don't want or need. If it does not look good like 7 does. They M$ seem to be designing the OS for the lowest common denominator least intelligent user and least powerful device. That leaves a bunch of people with powerful hardware running a poor excuse for an OS. Windows 7 still has 5 years. If I don't upgrade for free my 7 OS maybe the next version 10.1 or 11 M$ will have finally got right and removed all the mobile stuff. My desktop is not a phone and never will be.
      My ComputersSystem Spec
  10.    28 Jan 2015 #70

    Hi there

    Like all these things use what's best for you.

    I'd hazard a bet that unlike XP there won't be a lot of W7 users left by 2020. I can say that XP WILL still be around in 2020 because there is some really EXPENSIVE legacy hardware around (Machine tools, Lab equipment, Engineering plant maintenance hardware etc) which costs 100,000's of dollars or much more , have a life cycle of up to 40 years or more and which run on dedicated systems. It's no point to upgrade these (they usually can't be upgraded anyway and the hardware costs too much to upgrade -- how many channel tunnels or cross rail systems get built !! but thy still need to be maintained and repaired at intervals).

    W7 is a different system entirely - there's almost nothing that runs on W7 that won't work(soon) on W10 if it's reasonably feasible to do so.

    There's a HUGE difference in how XP works and the W7 OS -- not so much difference between W7 and W10 that can't be fairly easily upgraded.

    There is likely to be a lot of totally new hardware by 2020 which will need a modern OS to make it work -- Genuine 3D screens WITHOUT GLASSES, Virtual reality, holograms and infinitely better touch systems for a start.

    Another one I like is the use of "Virtual Screens" where I could project easily my screen to a large white wall using modern low power light sources and being able to use a laser stick on the virtual screen with commands sent back to the OS. No cables etc like the current "projectors".

    All sorts of other hardware might be around that we haven't even thought about. 5 years in this biz is almost a geological epoch.

    Cheers
    jimbo
      My ComputerSystem Spec

 
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