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  1.    23 Jan 2015 #311

    Quote Originally Posted by Wynona View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Phone Man View Post
    I thought I saw on the broadcast that this next Technical Preview would be in 23 languages. Anyone remember that part?

    Jim
    Yes, Jim, I remember that. Although I thought I heard 25, but who's counting. Wonder if they'll let any more insiders in since they're upping the language count around three or four times.
    Hi there.

    an easier and more effective solution would be to simply release a whole slew of Language Interface packs --these have worked very well in the past and very good for people who regularly work in more than one language. While not as complete as Windows totally in the target language they are good enough in most of the cases where people want more than one language.

    The problem also sometimes with a Clean install is that "embedded drivers" sometimes aren't picked up - I've had cases where hardware has worked simply by upgrading from W8.1 - but it fails when doing a CLEAN install as the driver won't install separately.

    Other problems can arise such as re-installing older applications where the manufacturer is no longer in existence / merged / no longer supports the release you are using so the activation fails on a reinstall but it works when the OS is simply upgraded.

    While in principle a clean install sounds the better option in practice it's not always true. My gut feel is to take an image of your existing OS first, Then do a clean install and if that gives problems restore the old OS and then go for the upgrade.

    Cheers
    jimbo
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  2.    23 Jan 2015 #312
    Join Date : Jul 2014
    Serbia
    Posts : 10,607
    W10 Insider + Linux

    In my experience, only clean, not heavily customized, up to date with updates systems should be upgraded with newer versions. Making sure that drivers and AVs are compatible can help a lot. Complete system backup beforehand can get you back on track in minutes if something goes wrong. Programs installed can't be guaranteed to work so having their installation files and eventual registrations, should be backed up to a safe place. Any personal files left in default places should be out of reach of newly installed updates/upgrades.
    If upgrade succeeds, a lot of time can be saved but if it doesn't..... oh well, there are always those backup that should be done anyway.
    Having done all that saved my bacon when upgrading to 8.1. some drivers and AV were hopelessly and unexpectedly incompatible, quick Macrium Reflect backup got me going until drivers and AV incompatibility was solved.
      My ComputersSystem Spec
  3.    23 Jan 2015 #313
    Join Date : Jan 2015
    Posts : 6
    w10

    My understanding is that the win7/8 users will be "forced" to upgrade in place, ie: no option for a clean install.

    Quote Originally Posted by BunnyJ View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by martik777 View Post
    Good news it's free for some, but ...

    I don't like the forced in place upgrade for 7 and 8 users

    Why not make it free for all users, get everyone up to date then charge a very small fee later
    I think part of the rational is that MS no longer supports Xp or Vista so they have not tested the update for those OS's. And I don't know what you mean by "forced". You can stick with your OS now and you don't have to upgrade. Or if you want I'm sure that MS will be selling copies of Win10 on DVD format.

    Jeff
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  4.    23 Jan 2015 #314

    Quote Originally Posted by CountMike View Post
    In my experience, only clean, not heavily customized, up to date with updates systems should be upgraded with newer versions. Making sure that drivers and AVs are compatible can help a lot. Complete system backup beforehand can get you back on track in minutes if something goes wrong. Programs installed can't be guaranteed to work so having their installation files and eventual registrations, should be backed up to a safe place. Any personal files left in default places should be out of reach of newly installed updates/upgrades.
    If upgrade succeeds, a lot of time can be saved but if it doesn't..... oh well, there are always those backup that should be done anyway.
    Having done all that saved my bacon when upgrading to 8.1. some drivers and AV were hopelessly and unexpectedly incompatible, quick Macrium Reflect backup got me going until drivers and AV incompatibility was solved.
    Hi there

    sometimes programs need to be "Activated" like Windows. For example most editions of Photoshop. Now if a program you have was activated using an "activation server" this might no longer work on re-install --especially if as I mentioned the company has gone out of business, doesn't support the software any more, has been taken over, activation server no longer exists etc. Companies don't always mark their products as "abandonware" when exiting a market or simply going bust.

    In addition a lot of products now have those "dumb install" methods which are done online (nothing downladed) and if your release or version is not reasonably current it won't always work. Re-installing from scratch can lead to your program not being "installable" again due to it being too old or too far back in the upgrade cycle.

    I agree where feasibly possible a clean update is usually the best but with the "dumbed down" method of 1-click installs etc it becomes increasingly difficult to do this if you have a large number of applications installed.

    If your system is clean and up to date I can't actually see what's wrong by using an update. A few years ago I might have argued differently but these days it's almost impossible to keep all fixed / serial numbers for applications separately as a lot of updates aren't even downloadable any more.

    I've had an HP printer that didn't work on "Clean install". Worked properly when I did a W8.1 ==> W10 upgrade !!!.

    I'm sure there will be loads of issues like that.

    Cheers
    jimbo
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  5.    23 Jan 2015 #315
    Join Date : Jul 2014
    Serbia
    Posts : 10,607
    W10 Insider + Linux

    jimbo, I'm sure you are right about all those potential problems, risks have to be evaluated in both cases. Some programs with complicated registration like MS Office I did not reinstall in W10TP, just can't afford to loose the license or even have problems with it. Only the problem free installations with local licenses are safe to reinstall on clean OS installation.
      My ComputersSystem Spec
  6.    23 Jan 2015 #316

    Hi there.

    Ms Office licenses are a nuisance - they seem to recognize hardware changes much more than Windows itself does and you don't want to lose those - they aren't cheap and things like Office 2010 (I prefer any day over the later versions) are hard to get again even if you want to buy one.

    Users really need to consider CAREFULLY their upgrade strategies now. My point was merely to point out for some people just blindingly always choosing the clean install route might not be so sensible any more.

    If I'm starting out with a whole load of totally new packages and a new machine - no argument - but you only have to see the problems on mobile phones when packages get re-installed and don't work with no way of going back to your previous version - particularly on Google play store for Android to realize that re-installs aren't always the best way forward.

    Actually that's another reason why I HATE the whole store thing -- it will be a pain getting previous versions etc judging by GOOGLE and APPLE's way of using the store.

    Can't see it happening but it would be great if Ms would quietly drop the whole store idea.

    Cheers
    jimbo
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  7.    23 Jan 2015 #317
    Join Date : Jul 2014
    Serbia
    Posts : 10,607
    W10 Insider + Linux

    I'd like to see store go out with a BANG.
      My ComputersSystem Spec
  8.    23 Jan 2015 #318
    Join Date : Oct 2013
    Penns Forrest
    Posts : 3,506
    Win_8.1-Pro, Win_10.1607-Pro, Mint_17.3

    Quote Originally Posted by martik777 View Post
    My understanding is that the win7/8 users will be "forced" to upgrade in place, ie: no option for a clean install.

    Quote Originally Posted by BunnyJ View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by martik777 View Post
    Good news it's free for some, but ...

    I don't like the forced in place upgrade for 7 and 8 users

    Why not make it free for all users, get everyone up to date then charge a very small fee later
    I think part of the rational is that MS no longer supports Xp or Vista so they have not tested the update for those OS's. And I don't know what you mean by "forced". You can stick with your OS now and you don't have to upgrade. Or if you want I'm sure that MS will be selling copies of Win10 on DVD format.

    Jeff
    It's a free upgrade - yes.
    It's not a free OS.

    MS is not forcing you to upgrade.... they're only saying
    "If you want Win10 for FREE, you have to upgrade from a previous version" and they define what versions that can be upgraded.

    I think Microsoft has some every right to determine how this works.

    If you don't want Win10 for free, well...what can I say.
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  9.    23 Jan 2015 #319
    Join Date : Oct 2014
    Posts : 277
    windows 7

    Lots of good things here if MS just executes well. They MUST execute at a historic level to win over the IT Officers that universally thumbs-downed Win8/8.1 - if they don't right that ship, their future is very ugly.
    I am very skeptical that they can pull out of the death spiral on handsets unless the big 2 stumble really, really, really badly. Saturation in the western world is in view there and it will be very difficult to lever a wider spot for win phone

    that all said, if the DO win over the IT shops soon, before everyone figures out how to use Ipad's for a lot of functions the PC 'seat' was doing, it will be huge. but its late, and their vendors - Dell/HP/Lenovo may well permanently scratch the PC workstation business before 10 can get rolling. I doubt any of them are able to turn a profit on that end of the biz. a new model needs to surface there.
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  10.    23 Jan 2015 #320
    Join Date : Oct 2014
    Posts : 277
    windows 7

    some of you need to get familiar with secondary channels, off-lease business class PC's etc because in my view, Windows 7 is effectively free right now.
    yes, free.
    If your concern is "losing a license" I would ask: what are you willing to pay for a license? I can buy an off-lease HP business-class PC in fine shape, redone by a Microsoft-VLA refurber, with Windows 7 [some Pro, some Home P] for around $55. I can sell that hardware for that, sans windows 7 or whatever. that's for a clean, well-performing piece of hardware.
    I can buy problem systems: laptops, desktops, with Windows 7 and/or Windows 8 licenses for less than that. How one redeploys that license is different for 7 vs. 8, but it can be done perfectly legit.

    When you see what's moving through secondary channels, including many brand new never-unboxed PC's, you see what has happened to the old PC business we formerly knew. WAY too many models for anyone to deal with. WAY soft retail market that is on the precipice of a price war that will forever eliminate profit from the retail side except for very well-defined niches, oddly led by well-heeled gamers. I can buy 4th gen i5 laptops, under warranty, for less than what Best Buy et al are being asked to sell Celeron-based models for.

    Quote Originally Posted by Slartybart View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by martik777 View Post
    My understanding is that the win7/8 users will be "forced" to upgrade in place, ie: no option for a clean install.

    Quote Originally Posted by BunnyJ View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by martik777 View Post
    Good news it's free for some, but ...

    I don't like the forced in place upgrade for 7 and 8 users

    Why not make it free for all users, get everyone up to date then charge a very small fee later
    I think part of the rational is that MS no longer supports Xp or Vista so they have not tested the update for those OS's. And I don't know what you mean by "forced". You can stick with your OS now and you don't have to upgrade. Or if you want I'm sure that MS will be selling copies of Win10 on DVD format.

    Jeff
    It's a free upgrade - yes.
    It's not a free OS.

    MS is not forcing you to upgrade.... they're only saying
    "If you want Win10 for FREE, you have to upgrade from a previous version" and they define what versions that can be upgraded.

    I think Microsoft has some every right to determine how this works.

    If you don't want Win10 for free, well...what can I say.
      My ComputerSystem Spec

 
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