Please Ms - No Dumb non selectable installs

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  1. jimbo45's Avatar
    Posts : 9,106
    Windows / Linux : Arch Linux
       #1

    Please Ms - No Dumb non selectable installs


    Hi there.

    I've just abandoned what used to be great Linux Distro : Linux Mint. The latest (Linux Mint 17.1) as the newest flavour has ZERO customisable options, No software selectable options on the install -- and there's no Live CD either.

    This might not mean much to Windows users but the current Linux Mint offers no user selectable desktop (KDE / GNOME etc) at install time -- and you get a huge jumble of software YOU DON'T ALWAYS WANT. Linux was Never intended to be a "Better Windows than Windows".

    Windows at least allows you to install the base OS and then it's up to you to install whatever else you want.

    For once Ms is doing MUCH better than the various Linuxes around who are going BONKERS in trying to simplify the stuff so it's virtually USELESS if you don't want a system full of bloat.

    So having abandoned LINUX MINT and CENTOS - I've gone back to OPENSUSE again -- at least you get reasonable install selections.

    PLEASE OS developers Don't Dumb everything down -- some user selection is always worth while --by all means have "an Idiot's install" but also allow other users a more selective approach.

    I always like the idea too of Windows at install time just installing the base package to run your computer --then you can add whatever you want / need later. I dread the day Windows starts becoming "completely configured" !!!!

    @Linux mint 17.1 users -- just tell me how I can get the KDE desktop without all the other rubbish. On 17.0 there was a KDE Live CD. OK this is a Windows Forum but the point I think is valid -- simplification is OK up to a point BUT DON'T OVER SIMPLIFY.

    Cheers
    jimbo
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  2. Posts : 5,834
    Dual boot Windows 10 FCU Pro x 64 & current Insider 10 Pro
       #2

    Thanks for the info, Jim. It's good means so far as educating. :)

    So, another dent for Linux? Just what they need.

    So far as this happening to Windows > It'll never happen. That would be lunacy.
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  3. Superfly's Avatar
    Posts : 3,272
       #3

    It's been a pet peeve of mine as well... Only way to get rid of the 'bloat' that I'm aware of is to homebrew your own ISO.

    https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LiveCDCustomization

    Seems KDE has been shunned by Mint - don't see any testing ISO's yet...

    Iso images - Linux Mint Community
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  4. Kari's Avatar
    Posts : 17,120
    Windows 10 Pro
       #4

    This is one of the reasons I prefer CentOS as my Linux distro:

    Please Ms - No Dumb non selectable installs-2014-12-07_22h35_32.png
    Last edited by Kari; 07 Dec 2014 at 16:18.
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  5. Posts : 803
    10 Pro Preview x64
       #5

    jimbo45 said:
    Windows at least allows you to install the base OS and then it's up to you to install whatever else you want.
    If you think that a Food and Drink app is a part of a base OS I suppose :) I'm starting to play with Arch which is pretty un-bloated - haven't chosen a GUI to install yet...
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  6. lehnerus2000's Avatar
    Posts : 1,808
    W7 Ultimate SP1 (64 bit), LM 19.2 MATE (64 bit), W10 Home 1703 (64 bit), W10 Pro 1703 (64 bit) VM
       #6

    Weird Rant


    jimbo45 said:
    I've just abandoned what used to be great Linux Distro : Linux Mint. The latest (Linux Mint 17.1) as the newest flavour has ZERO customisable options, No software selectable options on the install -- and there's no Live CD either.
    You must be referring to Linux Mint (KDE version).

    Fedora & OpenSUSE have always had the best OS installers (compared to LM, Ubuntu or Windows).

    Linux Mint 17.1 MATE uses the identical installer to Linux Mint 17 MATE.
    It also runs as a Live CD/DVD/ISO.

    Please Ms - No Dumb non selectable installs-live-iso.png


    jimbo45 said:
    Windows at least allows you to install the base OS and then it's up to you to install whatever else you want.
    You must be referring to Windows Server.

    The Windows Desktop installer installs what MS thinks it should install.
    There are no software install options in Windows.

    Every Linux Distro I've tried (even Linux Mint 17.1 MATE) gives you the option to move various folders to other locations.
    That's something that MS' professional cadre of highly paid coders haven't been able to achieve for the last 15 years.

    Please Ms - No Dumb non selectable installs-install-options-locations.png


    jimbo45 said:
    For once Ms is doing MUCH better than the various Linuxes around who are going BONKERS in trying to simplify the stuff so it's virtually USELESS if you don't want a system full of bloat.
    Even with all of the "bloat" installed, Linux Mint 17.1 MATE:

    • Uses ~50% of the HDD space that an "empty" Windows Desktop install uses.
    • Takes the same amount of time that an "empty" Windows Desktop install takes.


    It took ~20 minutes to install the OS (including the "bloat") plus another ~10 minutes to download & install the updates.

    Please Ms - No Dumb non selectable installs-install-usage.png
    Note:
    The disk usage increased by 300 MB after the updates.

    After you have installed Windows, you then have to spend extra time installing Windows Updates, MS Office, VLC & Adobe CC which probably takes at least 1 hour.

    Windows also caches the extra Windows Features so you can install them later.
    So if you don't use them (or know about them) they just "sit around" clogging up the OS partition.

    My W10TP VM is using ~3.5x as much space as Linux Mint 17.1 MATE VM (18 GB vs 5 GB).

    jimbo45 said:
    I always like the idea too of Windows at install time just installing the base package to run your computer --then you can add whatever you want / need later. I dread the day Windows starts becoming "completely configured" !!!!
    Windows Desktop is already completely configured by MS.

    You have to customise it after the install has finished (the W8 series and W10 offer some options during the final setup step).

    You can install KDE using Synaptic.

    Please Ms - No Dumb non selectable installs-install-kde.png

    You can then use Synaptic to uninstall any of the other stuff you don't want.

    Superfly said:
    It's been a pet peeve of mine as well... Only way to get rid of the 'bloat' that I'm aware of is to homebrew your own ISO.

    https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LiveCDCustomization

    Seems KDE has been shunned by Mint - don't see any testing ISO's yet...

    Iso images - Linux Mint Community
    The other versions Of Linux Mint have always been released some time after MATE and Cinnamon.

    Looking at the list (last time) it took a month before KDE and Xfce versions were released.
    Last edited by lehnerus2000; 07 Dec 2014 at 22:24. Reason: Quote Added, Additional
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  7. Superfly's Avatar
    Posts : 3,272
       #7

    adamf said:
    If you think that a Food and Drink app is a part of a base OS I suppose :) I'm starting to play with Arch which is pretty un-bloated - haven't chosen a GUI to install yet...

    LOL.. yes waiitng for apps to install (especially if one will never use them) is a PITA.


    lehnerus2000 said:

    Looking at the list (last time) it took a month before KDE and Xfce versions were released.
    Yup, was just thinking there may be a test ISO by now, considering the last time a test build was on June 30th, about a week after MATE went RTM. Perhaps we'll see them this week.

    One can run apt-get scripts after install to add/remove packages, but it would be better to have a choice within the installer.

    Overall, I agree with your sentiments though. :)
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  8. Lee's Avatar
    Lee
    Posts : 4,793
    OS X, Win 10
       #8

    Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm!. . .is this a Windows 10 site or is it a New Linux site. . .just wondering. . .:)
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  9. BunnyJ's Avatar
    Posts : 22,693
    Windows 10 Home x64
       #9

    Lee said:
    Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm!. . .is this a Windows 10 site or is it a New Linux site. . .just wondering. . .:)
      My Computer


  10. Posts : 5,834
    Dual boot Windows 10 FCU Pro x 64 & current Insider 10 Pro
       #10

    I think they're ok, Lee, but actually they should be in the Chillout Room since it's not a part of 10.
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