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  1.    07 Dec 2014 #1

    Please Ms - No Dumb non selectable installs


    Hi there.

    I've just abandoned what used to be great Linux Distro : Linux Mint. The latest (Linux Mint 17.1) as the newest flavour has ZERO customisable options, No software selectable options on the install -- and there's no Live CD either.

    This might not mean much to Windows users but the current Linux Mint offers no user selectable desktop (KDE / GNOME etc) at install time -- and you get a huge jumble of software YOU DON'T ALWAYS WANT. Linux was Never intended to be a "Better Windows than Windows".

    Windows at least allows you to install the base OS and then it's up to you to install whatever else you want.

    For once Ms is doing MUCH better than the various Linuxes around who are going BONKERS in trying to simplify the stuff so it's virtually USELESS if you don't want a system full of bloat.

    So having abandoned LINUX MINT and CENTOS - I've gone back to OPENSUSE again -- at least you get reasonable install selections.

    PLEASE OS developers Don't Dumb everything down -- some user selection is always worth while --by all means have "an Idiot's install" but also allow other users a more selective approach.

    I always like the idea too of Windows at install time just installing the base package to run your computer --then you can add whatever you want / need later. I dread the day Windows starts becoming "completely configured" !!!!

    @Linux mint 17.1 users -- just tell me how I can get the KDE desktop without all the other rubbish. On 17.0 there was a KDE Live CD. OK this is a Windows Forum but the point I think is valid -- simplification is OK up to a point BUT DON'T OVER SIMPLIFY.

    Cheers
    jimbo
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  2.    07 Dec 2014 #2
    Join Date : Nov 2013
    Chicagoland
    Posts : 34,718
    Dual boot Windows 10 FCU Pro x 64 & current Insider 10 Pro

    Thanks for the info, Jim. It's good means so far as educating.

    So, another dent for Linux? Just what they need.

    So far as this happening to Windows > It'll never happen. That would be lunacy.
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  3.    07 Dec 2014 #3

    It's been a pet peeve of mine as well... Only way to get rid of the 'bloat' that I'm aware of is to homebrew your own ISO.

    https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LiveCDCustomization

    Seems KDE has been shunned by Mint - don't see any testing ISO's yet...

    Iso images - Linux Mint Community
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  4.    07 Dec 2014 #4
    Join Date : Oct 2013
    A Finnish expat in Germany
    Posts : 13,092
    Windows 10 Pro

    This is one of the reasons I prefer CentOS as my Linux distro:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by Kari; 07 Dec 2014 at 17:18.
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  5.    07 Dec 2014 #5
    Join Date : Nov 2013
    Posts : 804
    10 Pro Preview x64

    Quote Originally Posted by jimbo45 View Post
    Windows at least allows you to install the base OS and then it's up to you to install whatever else you want.
    If you think that a Food and Drink app is a part of a base OS I suppose I'm starting to play with Arch which is pretty un-bloated - haven't chosen a GUI to install yet...
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  6.    07 Dec 2014 #6
    Join Date : Aug 2014
    Australia, Adelaide
    Posts : 1,566
    W7 Ultimate SP1 (64 bit), LM 18.2 MATE (64 bit), W10 Home (64 bit)

    Weird Rant


    Quote Originally Posted by jimbo45 View Post
    I've just abandoned what used to be great Linux Distro : Linux Mint. The latest (Linux Mint 17.1) as the newest flavour has ZERO customisable options, No software selectable options on the install -- and there's no Live CD either.
    You must be referring to Linux Mint (KDE version).

    Fedora & OpenSUSE have always had the best OS installers (compared to LM, Ubuntu or Windows).

    Linux Mint 17.1 MATE uses the identical installer to Linux Mint 17 MATE.
    It also runs as a Live CD/DVD/ISO.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Quote Originally Posted by jimbo45 View Post
    Windows at least allows you to install the base OS and then it's up to you to install whatever else you want.
    You must be referring to Windows Server.

    The Windows Desktop installer installs what MS thinks it should install.
    There are no software install options in Windows.

    Every Linux Distro I've tried (even Linux Mint 17.1 MATE) gives you the option to move various folders to other locations.
    That's something that MS' professional cadre of highly paid coders haven't been able to achieve for the last 15 years.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Quote Originally Posted by jimbo45 View Post
    For once Ms is doing MUCH better than the various Linuxes around who are going BONKERS in trying to simplify the stuff so it's virtually USELESS if you don't want a system full of bloat.
    Even with all of the "bloat" installed, Linux Mint 17.1 MATE:

    • Uses ~50% of the HDD space that an "empty" Windows Desktop install uses.
    • Takes the same amount of time that an "empty" Windows Desktop install takes.


    It took ~20 minutes to install the OS (including the "bloat") plus another ~10 minutes to download & install the updates.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Note:
    The disk usage increased by 300 MB after the updates.

    After you have installed Windows, you then have to spend extra time installing Windows Updates, MS Office, VLC & Adobe CC which probably takes at least 1 hour.

    Windows also caches the extra Windows Features so you can install them later.
    So if you don't use them (or know about them) they just "sit around" clogging up the OS partition.

    My W10TP VM is using ~3.5x as much space as Linux Mint 17.1 MATE VM (18 GB vs 5 GB).

    Quote Originally Posted by jimbo45 View Post
    I always like the idea too of Windows at install time just installing the base package to run your computer --then you can add whatever you want / need later. I dread the day Windows starts becoming "completely configured" !!!!
    Windows Desktop is already completely configured by MS.

    You have to customise it after the install has finished (the W8 series and W10 offer some options during the final setup step).

    You can install KDE using Synaptic.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    You can then use Synaptic to uninstall any of the other stuff you don't want.

    Quote Originally Posted by Superfly View Post
    It's been a pet peeve of mine as well... Only way to get rid of the 'bloat' that I'm aware of is to homebrew your own ISO.

    https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LiveCDCustomization

    Seems KDE has been shunned by Mint - don't see any testing ISO's yet...

    Iso images - Linux Mint Community
    The other versions Of Linux Mint have always been released some time after MATE and Cinnamon.

    Looking at the list (last time) it took a month before KDE and Xfce versions were released.
    Last edited by lehnerus2000; 07 Dec 2014 at 23:24. Reason: Quote Added, Additional
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  7.    07 Dec 2014 #7

    Quote Originally Posted by adamf View Post
    If you think that a Food and Drink app is a part of a base OS I suppose I'm starting to play with Arch which is pretty un-bloated - haven't chosen a GUI to install yet...

    LOL.. yes waiitng for apps to install (especially if one will never use them) is a PITA.


    Quote Originally Posted by lehnerus2000 View Post

    Looking at the list (last time) it took a month before KDE and Xfce versions were released.
    Yup, was just thinking there may be a test ISO by now, considering the last time a test build was on June 30th, about a week after MATE went RTM. Perhaps we'll see them this week.

    One can run apt-get scripts after install to add/remove packages, but it would be better to have a choice within the installer.

    Overall, I agree with your sentiments though.
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  8.    08 Dec 2014 #8
    Join Date : Nov 2013
    Idaho USA
    Posts : 4,826
    OS X, Win 10

    Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm!. . .is this a Windows 10 site or is it a New Linux site. . .just wondering. . .
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  9.    08 Dec 2014 #9
    Join Date : Jan 2014
    Oak Ridge TN, USA
    Posts : 24,523
    Windows 10 Pro x64

    Quote Originally Posted by Lee View Post
    Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm!. . .is this a Windows 10 site or is it a New Linux site. . .just wondering. . .
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  10.    08 Dec 2014 #10
    Join Date : Nov 2013
    Chicagoland
    Posts : 34,718
    Dual boot Windows 10 FCU Pro x 64 & current Insider 10 Pro

    I think they're ok, Lee, but actually they should be in the Chillout Room since it's not a part of 10.
      My ComputersSystem Spec

 
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