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  1.    15 Oct 2014 #31
    Join Date : Oct 2014
    Posts : 69
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    Quote Originally Posted by HippsieGypsie View Post
    Yes. Like a Start Menu. Yet it isn't anything close to the 7 Start Menu other than two columns. I guess it doesn't matter just as long as it's a Start Menu.



    Sounds like a contradiction of terms. You OPed explaining that you hated it. So now you hated on a PC, but in your next sentence you don't use it on a tablet either.



    But yet you go to extremes to tweak iPads???



    I've been saying all along since the rumors of 10 that it will be the most customizable OS to date and it looks as though it is.



    Admittedly 8.x is not the seller 7 was, but as I pointed out it's not the biggest loser if 33% of members claim that it's the best. That's really only 23% difference to the 55% say about 7. It's not like MS lost there arse on 8.x. No, they still made and are making a profit from it. Their stock continues to do well a also. It is also not only the "consumption" OS that people make it out to be. It's very much a "production" OS, if not more so than 7 is.
    Nope I admit I have never used a WIN 8 or 8.1 tablet, honestly compared to Android and IOS how many really have? I'm not alone in this, if Win 8 was popular then MS would not be in the mess its in, People just do not like Win 8.

    I have used it on a touch screen laptop
    I have used Android tablets for over 2 years
    Had been on Iphone since Iphone 3 ( getting a 6 as soon as in stock waiting)
    So I decided to save money on Apps and use an Ipad Mini at work now

    But WIN 8 and 8.1 look like they are more Tablet central than PC even on touch screen PC.

    I have little comment about Win 8 for tablets, phone I do not like the way it works for the demos I did at the At&t store, I like the way Apple works ( Yes I Jailbreak but for my own reasons of tweaking it )
    Last edited by DRFP; 15 Oct 2014 at 15:01.
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  2.    15 Oct 2014 #32

    Just ran into another dislike installing it for a friend who was eager to try it. I wanted to make him a backup image upon install but when I typed in Backup to Search it took me to the MS Store where they want to vend me the app for the pretend price of nothing.

    Again here we have the same attempt to copy Ipad and phones by parceling out apps instead of giving the user what they want by default. This goes back to SIW2's confirmed theory that they want to eventually vend everything including the OS as apps on monthly subscriptions.

    This so contradicts the Desktop interface which brought MS a billion customers over the years that it is outright annoying. They need to give this up now and bundle back into the OS the features that users like and want.
    Last edited by gregrocker; 18 Oct 2014 at 13:38.
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  3.    15 Oct 2014 #33
    Join Date : Sep 2014
    Nashville, TN
    Posts : 3,143
    Windows 10 Pro

    And yet iPhones and iPad's are selling like hotcakes...
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  4.    15 Oct 2014 #34

    I am concerned about Operating Systems which is where MS dominated until Windows 8, and still does with Windows 7. In this field - our field - Apple has a tiny fraction of the market, making it a mystery why MS would want to graft onto the Desktop which drives the world economy a Social media interface which has almost no market share when it comes to OS's.

    I believe this was due to a misbegotten impression that the desktop was going to fade away in favor of tablets and other mobile devices, which could yield big bucks via subscriptions to Apps and Clouds. But trying to graft these onto a desktop interface is like insisting the race horse still needs a camel hump, and is already proven one of the biggest flops in consumer history with Windows 8 miniscule market share actually falling as XP users move to the wildly popular OS.

    Any attempt to correct this grudgingly will be seen for what it is. There is a good start now. They may yet avoid a Saturday Night Live parody.
    Last edited by gregrocker; 15 Oct 2014 at 16:58.
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  5.    15 Oct 2014 #35
    Join Date : Sep 2014
    Nashville, TN
    Posts : 3,143
    Windows 10 Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by gregrocker View Post
    I believe this was due to a misbegotten impression that the desktop was going to fade away in favor of tablets and other mobile devices
    It's hardly misbegotten. The numbers speak for themselves. in 2013, sales of Desktop PC's were about 300M units, while sales of mobile devices were close to 2B units. Tablets alone were almost half as many as Desktop PC's. This year, it was predicted they will be about equal.

    I haven't found this years figures on this yet to see how well those predictions have stacked up, but even if it stayed the same.. Why in the hell would you keep focusing your OS towards a market that accounts for less than 15% of sales?

    Gartner Says Worldwide PC, Tablet and Mobile Phone Shipments to Grow 4.5 Percent in 2013 as Lower-Priced Devices Drive Growth
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  6.    15 Oct 2014 #36

    Desktops also include laptops. The sales would have likely climbed if it wasn't for WIndows 8 which nearly killed off desktop PC sales. Best Buy had long lines of customers returning Windows 8 PC's. Tablets quickly plateaued and if you google Ipad market share now you get lots of Apple's iPad Market Share Is Collapsing


    The question is better asked why would you build over 20 years a base of a billion customers for desktop PC's which drive the world economy, then throw it all to the wind trying to change it's GUI in one updowngrade to that of a tablet or smartphone?

    Again the issue is OS and there is no dispute about Windows 8 market share, or that the entire media has rarely agreed on anything as roundly.
    Last edited by gregrocker; 18 Oct 2014 at 13:39.
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  7.    15 Oct 2014 #37
    Join Date : Sep 2014
    Nashville, TN
    Posts : 3,143
    Windows 10 Pro

    Those numbers are not just retail, but businesses as well, who have all been buying Windows 7 PC's. And in 2013 you could still largely buy Windows 7 PC's even at retail if you wanted. The Desktop PC market is flagging regardless of the OS.. people don't just NOT buy a computer.. they buy one because they need one, and if they don't like it, they'll take it back and buy a different one.

    Regardless, even if they were still selling Windows 7, and we take your argument at face value, Desktop PC sales would still be in the toilet and still be a fraction of Mobile device sales.

    You are living in a dream world if you seriously think desktop and laptop PC sales are going to continue to be the driving force in OS development. Even malware authors are starting to abandon us and going mostly after mobile devices... that should tell you something!

    If Microsoft wasn't so heavily invested in the same architecture for its server platforms as its desktop platform, I would have already expected Windows to be in "maintenance mode" with no new major releases for desktops.

    You should actually be thankful that Microsoft is trying to unify desktop/server/mobile, since that's going to allow desktops to continue to get updates long after they're considered financially unimportant.
    Last edited by Mystere; 15 Oct 2014 at 23:13.
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  8.    15 Oct 2014 #38
    Join Date : Nov 2013
    Chicagoland
    Posts : 34,834
    Dual boot Windows 10 FCU Pro x 64 & current Insider 10 Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by gregrocker View Post
    Just ran into another dislike installing it for a friend who was eager to try it. I wanted to make him a backup image upon install but when I typed in Backup to Search it took me to the MS Store where they want to vend me the app for the pretend price of nothing.
    System image or restore media was not included in 8.x nor does it look like it's included yet in 10. Only restore points. Perhaps since you skipped 8.x you didn't know that.


    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Search Snip.PNG 
Views:	85 
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ID:	7084


    No. I performed the same search. The app was just one of the results. Looks like you took yourself to the Store app by pressing on the result. You could have completely ignored it. Besides, MS has every right to peddle wares however they see fit. They are not forcing anyone to buy anything. It was just a result of a search that MS sees fit to incorporate into THEIR OS. An OS that I, you, nor anyone else owns. We purchase a license to use the OS.

    It's like buying a magazine. Basically it's buying the paper, ink, and the right to read what's on the paper. One does not own the copyrights to whatever is printed within nor can they tell the publisher what to print. Don't like the magazine? > Don't buy the Magazine. Same goes with OSs.

    "Pretend price of nothing"?! If the app is free, then in reality it's free, yes?. Why the drama? It's free.

    Again here we have the same attempt to copy Ipad and phones by parceling out apps instead of giving the user what they want by default.
    By what you think should be default from Windows 7, yes? MS is building a platform of OSs to run across multiple devices for a very similar experience, especially to infiltrate the ever-growing mobile market. Eventually one OS. Absolutely good business sense in the long run. Who else is trying to accomplish that?

    Of course it's mimicking. From a business standpoint it makes absolute sense. You do know something of business don't you? If a sales tactic is proven, then why not use it?

    "Parceling out apps"? You do still have all those free apps in accessories folder, yes? Notepad, WordPad, Calculator, Paint, etc.? Anything else from here on out worthwhile we pay for and OMG! Media Center is now a mere $15. You do purchase other software from MS and others, or do you expect everything for the price of the OS license?

    This goes back to SIW2's confirmed theory that they want to eventually vend everything including the OS as apps on monthly subscriptions.
    A confirmed theory would be a hypothesis, yes? Does SIW2, you, or anyone have proof of such? I haven't heard anything official that MS OSs going subscription. Office has, but not the OSs. On the other hand, if they do, some may prefer subscriptions, especially businesses. It may be more reasonable for them. Of course, there's that business sense again.

    This so contradicts the Desktop Experience which brought MS a billion customers over the years that it is outright annoying. They need to give this up now and bundle back into the OS the features that users like and want.
    Lol! Is the "Desktop Experience" some kind of euphoria? Like in it's own little "computer land" somewhere? Perhaps in Kansas?

    You mean annoying for you because you're not getting exactly what you like and want. I should think others can decide for themselves. MS introduced the feedback app so everyone has a voice. It'll be interesting what it turns out to be. I think it'll be the most configurable OS to date at RTM.

    For now it looks like there's 4 supported flavors for users to choose or have chosen. Vista, 7, 8, and 8.1. Soon to be another.
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  9.    16 Oct 2014 #39

    Business? The desktop runs the world economy, that's all.


    I am here only to help others. It would have been fun to have discussions with amiable colleagues but I'm not getting dragged into arguments like those which polluted 8F so badly it never even had a chance to achieve the greatness that the top tech forums in web history 7F has.

    Let's hope 10F can follow in its footsteps without stepping in what some sling against others whose passionate views differ from their own. I don't have the time or stomach for it.
    Last edited by gregrocker; 16 Oct 2014 at 00:37.
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  10.    16 Oct 2014 #40
    Join Date : Nov 2013
    Chicagoland
    Posts : 34,834
    Dual boot Windows 10 FCU Pro x 64 & current Insider 10 Pro

    Argue? Perhaps you must think that someone that doesn't agree with you are arguing? Simply stating my point of view as others are and just as those that came on 8F to slam the OS simply because they didn't understand it and/or like the concept. And yes, unfortunately I'm starting to see the same thing happening here.

    Perhaps you didn't run 8.x long enough to know that it came with a desktop, which IMO is nothing but a UI that needs to die off for a great number of reasons. Reasons, obviously, very few understand. 8.x was written and presented by what I think is the greatest software company on the planet. Now all of a sudden they and those that understand the concept are ostracized for doing such. Ironically 8.x was produced by the same team as 7. I think some tend to forget that.

    If anything they made the mistake of presenting it too quickly creating what I'll call a shock effect. "That's not the way we've always performed it in the past!" Just because it was performed that way doesn't mean that there's not a better way. Just like MSDos to Windows 95 UI then onto succeeding OSs. All changed to find a better way. Now we've reached a major crossroads in computing and all of a sudden the ground is rumbling. Markets change and OSs need to change along with it also.

    Did you ever stop to think that not only did Gates and the crew write great software, but also grew to know how to run what has become one of the world's largest and successful corporations? They weren't wimps in doing so. They all worked very hard to get to where they're at today. I should think that they know how to present the next productive OS. Yes, I said productive OS such as 8.x are, especially 8.1.

    My hat off to you and others in your accomplishment of 7F. Great OS and forum. No doubt whatsoever. Unfortunately I and others didn't have time for it for we were busy with other things in life or we simply weren't working IT. I'm not a geek in the truest sense of the word, but I'm proud to be a part of the 8F community and help there the best I can. You have no right to judge us for standing our ground about 8.x for the most part. Simply not our problem you and others rejected it.

    Personally I was in the construction industry selling and performing my talents there. Though not as savvy in tech as you and others are, I did, however, sit countless hours for 25 years behind a PC with multiple programs open performing estimates within Office suite, mostly Excel spreadsheets, Word for contracts & proposals, picture slide shows using PowerPoint, and Access for databases. Contracting bidding guideline programs, IE for internet access to accounts concerning building materials & research, Notepad, Calculator, a PDF reader for blueprints, email client, contacts, accounting program (although that was eventually handed off to an accountant), research on weather conditions & forecasts, a phone headset, and a 4-in-one just to name a few. I think this pretty much qualifies me as a power user. Also had cell phones since the bags, in which the construction industry greatly helped to popularize and boost sales.

    Bottom line is that no IT pro is going to tell me what works best for me or others so far as productivity within an OS is concerned. IT pros should stick to the day to day technical issues, not judge on whether an OS is productive or not in an office environment. Though semi retired now, I wish I had the 8.x system when in my prime. Furthermore, I have the greatest software company backing me on that. I and others aren't losing out whatsoever.

    MS set up a plan to develop 10. They presented a Tech Preview template, a feedback app, and are collecting user data to do so. I, for one, am expecting the "next OS" to be even more productive whether or not I agree with all the features included.
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