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  1.    30 Oct 2014 #91
    Join Date : Oct 2014
    Posts : 17,893
    Windows 10 Insider Preview Build 16281
    Thread Starter

    Quote Originally Posted by Slartybart View Post
    One hail Mary left

    Reset BIOS to defaults, - I know you said you did before, but humor me (we both could use a laugh about now)
    Turn off VT,
    save and exit
    Done - No Joy

    Quote Originally Posted by Slartybart View Post
    Double boots? When you say that, it's still acting as though the DVD drive is first in the boot order?
    Press any key to boot from DVD (1st flashes by quickly, but 2nd boot you can read it)
    When I say "double boots" I mean that it takes two tries to boot. Following is the boot order I had and then the default boot order:

    CD/DVD
    HDD
    USB Key/HDD
    !USB Floppy
    !Network Adapter

    USB Floppy
    CD/DVD
    HDD
    USB Key/HDD
    USB CD/DVD

    Edit: However, before the BIOS upgrade to F.49, and before I started changing things around, the HDD was the first boot device; when I'm not working on something like this, I always let the HDD be the first boot device. Also, during installation of 8/8.1 on the WD Blue, the laptop booted to the 8.0 DVD when it should. It even booted to the Windows 7 DVD when I was trying to install.

    No matter if I have a bootable DVD in the DVD drive or not, the exact same thing happens on bootup; a tiny flash of the message the first time and then a little longer when the laptop boots (on the second try)

    Quote Originally Posted by Slartybart View Post
    A thought just occurred - what happens if you hit a key?
    Huh? Hit a key when!?

    Quote Originally Posted by Slartybart View Post
    Saltgrass mentioned a possible HW issue - what if you placed the SSD in the 2nd bay. That would change the port it is connected - it should still boot.
    Ummm, I've been working on this issue besides the help you guys are giving me. At the moment I have installed Windows 8 (upgraded all the way to 8.1 Update 1) on the new WD Blue hard drive. (I had to know if it was trash, since I couldn't get Windows 7 to install on it.) I had hoped I might find a cure, but no luck there. So . . . on to bigger and better . . .

    I put Windows 8.1 in the primary drive bay and put Windows 10 in the secondary bay. Here's the kicker: BIOS does not give me an option to put the second drive in the boot order; however, it's recognized in Startup Options.

    Since Windows 10 is in the secondary bay already, I can remove Windows 8.1 from the primary bay.

    Quote Originally Posted by Slartybart View Post
    There's not much else
    - reseat memory
    - reseat Wifi/Bluetooth card.
    - try booting with the battery removed

    That's all I have - this is a stumper issue.

    Bill
    .
    I ran down to the local computer shop yesterday to get a HDD holder for the secondary bay and told him about the problem and the help from you guys. I said I might have to bring the computer to him, but he said he wouldn't have a clue. I'm not sure anyone else has ever seen this problem.

    I'm about at the point of asking myself if it's worth taking up my time and yours (all of you) with this issue.
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  2.    30 Oct 2014 #92
    Join Date : Oct 2014
    Posts : 17,893
    Windows 10 Insider Preview Build 16281
    Thread Starter

    Quote Originally Posted by Slartybart View Post
    A while back Greg suggested running Startup Repair, you asked about running it on Win10 since Greg's reference was to the Win7 repair process.

    Here's the Win8 process (Win10 is Win8.1 update 2 - or was until build 9860)
    Automatic Repair - Run in Windows 8

    To get to the Advanced Startup Options follow OPTION THREE in
    System Recovery Options - Boot to in Windows 8

    When the system restarts,
    press Troubleshoot
    press Advanced Options
    press Automatic Repair

    Run the automatic repair 3 times, booting between executions.

    The process will be the same as in Win8 and you're certain to be using Win10 programs to do the repair.
    Bill, this problem has recurred now on three hard drives. The original Windows 8.1 drive, the SSD drive with Windows 10 and now the WD Blue with Windows 8.1. I just cannot see how Repair or Recovery are a real option. Convince me?

    Logic tells me that there could be two things happening:

    1. It's a hardware issue that we haven't picked up on.
    2. It's an issue that is common to Windows 8 and Windows 10.

    And, to tell you the truth, if it were either one of these things, I wouldn't be the only one who's having this problem. At the very least, "some" of those folks who own an HP dv7-1245dx Entertainment Laptop should have this same issue.
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  3.    30 Oct 2014 #93

    One way we can check is to see a picture of Disk Management - How to Post a Screenshot of with all drives attached so that we can see the labels, sizes, etc of each partition.

    It will not hurt to run either Windows 8/10 Auto repair or Win7 Startup Repair to check over the boot files.
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  4.    30 Oct 2014 #94
    Join Date : Oct 2014
    Posts : 17,893
    Windows 10 Insider Preview Build 16281
    Thread Starter

    Quote Originally Posted by gregrocker View Post
    One way we can check is to see a picture of Disk Management - How to Post a Screenshot of with all drives attached so that we can see the labels, sizes, etc of each partition.

    It will not hurt to run either Windows 8/10 Auto repair or Win7 Startup Repair to check over the boot files.
    Here ya go:
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Disk Management.PNG 
Views:	40 
Size:	36.7 KB 
ID:	7690

    Ah, boot files . . . OK. I'll get back to you on that in a few.

    BTW, right clicking on the Windows startup window will give a listing of things you want to see. Disk Management is among those.
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  5.    30 Oct 2014 #95

    Do both of these HD's have OS's on them? Were they installed with the other one unplugged?

    What we can see booted into C is that System Reserved on Disk0 is booting it as signified by the System flag. It may also be booting an OS on F if one is there - in which case that drive's own System Reserved partition should not be marked Active as it will interfere.

    To know for sure if an OS on Disk1 is being booted by its own System Reserved partition we need to see the picture while booted into the OS on F if there is one. If not then again System Reserved should not be marked Active. The Active flag points to a partition intended to boot the OS, or perhaps in this case Dual Boot two OS's.

    An unbooted drive will not show the System flag, and we often see a reinstall with both drives attached which places the boot files on the first drive.
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  6.    31 Oct 2014 #96
    Join Date : Oct 2014
    Posts : 17,893
    Windows 10 Insider Preview Build 16281
    Thread Starter

    Quote Originally Posted by gregrocker View Post
    Do both of these HD's have OS's on them? Were they installed with the other one unplugged?
    Yes to both questions. This is also the first time drives have been installed in both the Primary and Secondary bays.

    Quote Originally Posted by gregrocker View Post
    What we can see booted into C is that System Reserved on Disk0 is booting it as signified by the System flag. It may also be booting an OS on F if one is there - in which case that drive's own System Reserved partition should not be marked Active as it will interfere.

    To know for sure if an OS on Disk1 is being booted by its own System Reserved partition we need to see the picture while booted into the OS on F if there is one. If not then again System Reserved should not be marked Active. The Active flag points to a partition intended to boot the OS, or perhaps in this case Dual Boot two OS's.

    An unbooted drive will not show the System flag, and we often see a reinstall with both drives attached which places the boot files on the first drive.
    C:\ is Windows 8.1
    F:\ is Windows 10 TP

    When both drives are in the laptop, Windows 8.1 boots (it's in the primary drive bay) but does not give me an option to choose between Windows 8.1 and Windows 10.

    When I remove Windows 8.1 from the primary bay, Windows 10 will boot.

    Back to bootup taking two tries:

    Primary only drive bay occupied - Two tries to boot.
    Secondary only drive bay occupied - Two tries to boot.
    Both Primary and Secondary bays occupied - Two tries to boot.

    I have tried to use Easy BCD just to see if that might make a difference, but so far, I can't figure it out. I hate online only guides!
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  7.    31 Oct 2014 #97
    Join Date : Oct 2013
    Penns Forrest
    Posts : 3,506
    Win_8.1-Pro, Win_10.1607-Pro, Mint_17.3

    Quote Originally Posted by Wynona View Post
    .....
    When I say "double boots" I mean that it takes two tries to boot. Following is the boot order I had and then the default boot order:

    CD/DVD
    HDD
    USB Key/HDD
    !USB Floppy
    !Network Adapter

    USB Floppy
    CD/DVD
    HDD
    USB Key/HDD
    USB CD/DVD

    Edit: However, before the BIOS upgrade to F.49, and before I started changing things around, the HDD was the first boot device; when I'm not working on something like this, I always let the HDD be the first boot device. Also, during installation of 8/8.1 on the WD Blue, the laptop booted to the 8.0 DVD when it should. It even booted to the Windows 7 DVD when I was trying to install.
    .....
    Huh? Hit a key when!?
    .....
    I ran down to the local computer shop yesterday to get a HDD holder for the secondary bay and told him about the problem and the help from you guys. I said I might have to bring the computer to him, but he said he wouldn't have a clue. I'm not sure anyone else has ever seen this problem.

    I'm about at the point of asking myself if it's worth taking up my time and yours (all of you) with this issue.
    Maybe I'm still confused about what occurs and the double boot statement. I based my "hit a key" comment on this:
    Quote Originally Posted by Wynona View Post
    .....
    Whoops! No, no, no, I don't have to press Esc to boot . . . In order to boot from DVD or Jump Drive, I have to press Esc. I just thought it strange that the boot failure barely showed the "Press Esc, etc. . . . message, but the successful boot showed the message long enough to be understood and acted upon. Sorry I misled you.
    .....

    I'm not sure why the BIOS defaults set the Boot order that way - please make this your boot order and only have the SSD in the 2nd bay
    HDD
    CD/DVD
    USB Key/HDD
    !USB Floppy
    !Network Adapter

    No joy? Try this order (only the hard drive enabled)
    HDD
    !CD/DVD
    !USB Key/HDD
    !USB Floppy
    !Network Adapter

    It's not a problem for me to offer suggestions - the decision to spend your time on this issue is yours to make. I'll post replies to your posts if I think of anything. If you're ready to give up, just let TenFroums members know that - thanks.

    Have you tried reseating the other hardware - there really isn't a whole lot left to try after that. The OS is new, the SSD is new (the original Win8.1 drive had the same issue - right?).

    I doubt it's a Mobo or controller issue - that would have been prevalent before 8.1 update 1 (or whenever this issue started). Components do fail, but there would be other issues which would be more noticeable than just a double boot.

    The Automatic Repair, boot order, and reset other HW (including the battery removed) that's about it.

    Bill
    .
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  8.    31 Oct 2014 #98
    Join Date : Oct 2013
    Penns Forrest
    Posts : 3,506
    Win_8.1-Pro, Win_10.1607-Pro, Mint_17.3

    Thought I'd bring this front and center in case anyone wanted to know more about your BCD.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wynona View Post
    Windows Boot Manager
    --------------------
    identifier {bootmgr}
    device partition=\Device\HarddiskVolume1
    description Windows Boot Manager
    locale en-US
    inherit {globalsettings}
    integrityservices Enable
    default {current}
    resumeobject {76bb2b20-52e7-11e4-8c4c-8a3ac99b1a9a}
    displayorder {current}
    toolsdisplayorder {memdiag}
    timeout 30
    Windows Boot Loader
    -------------------
    identifier {current}
    device partition=C:
    path \Windows\system32\winload.exe
    description Windows Technical Preview
    locale en-US
    inherit {bootloadersettings}
    recoverysequence {fc84eb6d-527a-11e4-bd61-a53c4dffd15e}
    integrityservices Enable
    recoveryenabled Yes
    allowedinmemorysettings 0x15000075
    osdevice partition=C:
    systemroot \Windows
    resumeobject {76bb2b20-52e7-11e4-8c4c-8a3ac99b1a9a}
    nx OptIn
    bootmenupolicy Standard
    Windows Boot Loader
    -------------------
    identifier {fc84eb6d-527a-11e4-bd61-a53c4dffd15e}
    device ramdisk=[\Device\HarddiskVolume1]\Recovery\WindowsRE\Winre.wim,{fc84eb6e-527a-11e4-bd61-a53c4dffd15e}
    path \windows\system32\winload.exe
    description Windows Recovery Environment
    locale en-US
    inherit {bootloadersettings}
    displaymessage Recovery
    displaymessageoverride Recovery
    osdevice ramdisk=[\Device\HarddiskVolume1]\Recovery\WindowsRE\Winre.wim,{fc84eb6e-527a-11e4-bd61-a53c4dffd15e}
    systemroot \windows
    nx OptIn
    bootmenupolicy Standard
    winpe Yes
    Resume from Hibernate
    ---------------------
    identifier {76bb2b20-52e7-11e4-8c4c-8a3ac99b1a9a}
    device partition=C:
    path \Windows\system32\winresume.exe
    description Windows Resume Application
    locale en-US
    inherit {resumeloadersettings}
    recoverysequence {fc84eb6d-527a-11e4-bd61-a53c4dffd15e}
    recoveryenabled Yes
    allowedinmemorysettings 0x15000075
    filedevice partition=C:
    filepath \hiberfil.sys
    bootmenupolicy Standard
    debugoptionenabled No
    Windows Memory Tester
    ---------------------
    identifier {memdiag}
    device partition=\Device\HarddiskVolume1
    path \boot\memtest.exe
    description Windows Memory Diagnostic
    locale en-US
    inherit {globalsettings}
    badmemoryaccess Yes
    EMS Settings
    ------------
    identifier {emssettings}
    bootems No
    Debugger Settings
    -----------------
    identifier {dbgsettings}
    debugtype Serial
    debugport 1
    baudrate 115200
    RAM Defects
    -----------
    identifier {badmemory}
    Global Settings
    ---------------
    identifier {globalsettings}
    inherit {dbgsettings}
    {emssettings}
    {badmemory}
    Boot Loader Settings
    --------------------
    identifier {bootloadersettings}
    inherit {globalsettings}
    {hypervisorsettings}
    Hypervisor Settings
    -------------------
    identifier {hypervisorsettings}
    hypervisordebugtype Serial
    hypervisordebugport 1
    hypervisorbaudrate 115200
    Resume Loader Settings
    ----------------------
    identifier {resumeloadersettings}
    inherit {globalsettings}
    Device options
    --------------
    identifier {fc84eb6e-527a-11e4-bd61-a53c4dffd15e}
    description Windows Recovery
    ramdisksdidevice partition=\Device\HarddiskVolume1
    ramdisksdipath \Recovery\WindowsRE\boot.sdi

    Quote Originally Posted by Saltgrass View Post
    The BCD listing looks fine.
    .....
    You stated the computer was an "Entertainment" system. Did it have any special ability to view media without needing to actually boot the system?
    .....
    It does sound a little like Windows 8 is having problems with some device on your system. It might start loading one driver and then change something or disable the device on the second try. If it only does it on a cold boot, that would seem to support such a situation.

    Nothing showing in Device Manager and no problem devices showing in msinfo32.exe?
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  9.    31 Oct 2014 #99

    If you installed with the other drive unplugged then it wouldn't configure a Dual Boot menu, you'd need to choose the HD to boot by setting preferred HD as primary HD and then setting HD as first boot device - both in BIOS setup. Then trigger the other using the one-time BIOS Boot Menu key.

    If the screenshot you posted shows 8.1 booted, then it would be helpful to see another with 10 booted. It's System Reserved partition should be marked Active confirming it is booting itself and not booting off of 8.1. If it's not then something is awry. Remove 8.1 drive to see if 10 drive will boot on its own, as I believe you said is the case.

    To add a Windows Dual Boot menu while keeping both drives independently bootable, install EasyBCD to Primary (8.1) to add the other OS by name, type and drive letter as seen from 8.1.
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  10.    31 Oct 2014 #100
    Join Date : Oct 2013
    Penns Forrest
    Posts : 3,506
    Win_8.1-Pro, Win_10.1607-Pro, Mint_17.3

    Well I'll feel really silly if this turns out to be the cause.

    Go into BIOS and make the F10 and F12 delay 30 seconds (currently 0)
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	wynona BIOSsettings.png 
Views:	96 
Size:	225.2 KB 
ID:	7767

    Then tell me exactly what the msg is and where it is (lower left or upper left)

    After looking at the BIOS screen you posted, I thought the F10 and F12 delay might be interesting to research (don't ask why, it just jumped out and said - look at me)

    I searched for HP dv7-1245dx BIOS 10 and F12 delay and found a few service manuals, all with 1245dx missing.

    I looked at one and found this:
    Using Advanced Setup Utility Features

    This guide describes the Setup Utility features recommended for all users. For more information about the Setup Utility features recommended for advanced users only, refer to Help and Support, which is accessible only when the computer is in Windows.

    The Setup Utility features available for advanced users include a hard drive self-test, a Network Service Boot, and settings for boot order preferences.

    The “<F12> to boot from LAN” message that is displayed in the lower-left corner of the screen each time the computer is started or restarted in Windows is the prompt for a Network Service Boot.

    The “Press <ESC> to change boot order” message that is displayed in the lower-left corner of the screen each time the computer is started or restarted in Windows is the prompt to change the boot order

    Is that the message you see?

    Bill
    .
      My ComputerSystem Spec

 
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