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  1.    29 Sep 2015 #21
    Join Date : Jan 2015
    UK, Midlands
    Posts : 11,110
    Win 10 Pro (1703)

    Quote Originally Posted by SirDigbyChicken View Post
    Microsoft chap has said there's no alternative (because there's no Refresh option under Settings - Update & Security - Recovery) but to reinstall Windows 8.0, then upgrade to 8.1 and then Windows 10. Balls to that, frankly.

    Any ideas? Given that I can still - sort of - boot into Windows 10, the correct MBR, etc., must still be on my C drive somewhere, surely? I've tried booting with a Windows 10 DVD and using the Repair option (but it then thinks it's a Windows 8 machine...) and making changes with Bootsect, but to no avail.

    I really, really don't want to go down the thermonuclear route...

    (Am pondering the Reset or Roll Back options... I've got nothing to lose.)
    Hi, to try to fix your start problem, have you tried using a Win 10 boot disk (which you can quite readily create if you don't have one, tutorial on this site e.g.) and use Startup Repair? I assume tho' the MS chap would have thought of that. Worth trying if you have no disk images.

    One real lesson from all this is to use e.g. Macrium Reflect or similar on a regular basis so you can revert to a working situation exactly as was.
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  2.    29 Sep 2015 #22
    Join Date : Sep 2015
    Posts : 34
    Windows 10 Pro 64-bit
    Thread Starter

    Quote Originally Posted by dalchina View Post
    Hi, to try to fix your start problem, have you tried using a Win 10 boot disk (which you can quite readily create if you don't have one, tutorial on this site e.g.) and use Startup Repair? I assume tho' the MS chap would have thought of that. Worth trying if you have no disk images.

    One real lesson from all this is to use e.g. Macrium Reflect or similar on a regular basis so you can revert to a working situation exactly as was.
    Yeah, I tried that myself - Start-up Repair then wants you to select an operating system, but still Windows 10 isn't there (it only lists 7 and various versions of 8). And, unsurprisingly, even if you click through, it says it couldn't repair anything.

    Thanks for your reply, though. I keep regular disk images, but they're MS ones and Windows recovery (etc.) sees them as being linked to Operating Systems I don't have any more... :-(
    Last edited by SirDigbyChicken; 29 Sep 2015 at 10:49.
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  3.    29 Sep 2015 #23
    Join Date : Jan 2015
    UK, Midlands
    Posts : 11,110
    Win 10 Pro (1703)

    Hi, there's a suggestion here- ok, it's not Win 10, but the principle is exactly the same-
    Startup repair menu doesn't see an operating system Solved - Windows 7 Help Forums

    You'll need a bootable disk for a partition manager. That will let you see if the correct partitions are marked appropriately.
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  4.    29 Sep 2015 #24
    Join Date : Jun 2015
    N.Y.
    Posts : 3,069
    Windows 10 Pro 64 bit

    I missed the part from the beginning that you were dual booting with Windows 7.

    Saying you can only enter Windows 10 from safe mode, but you can get to the desktop and it is windows 7, 8, 8.1 ? How were you able to enter safe mode ?

    Unchecking Use Original Boot did not work ? When you said was no signs of it in MSCONFIG, did you check the Boot tab and did not see it there ? As it can be then set as default there.

    Not familiar with dual boot,know it uses 2 partitions on a disk drive or 2 disk drives.As this shows you about it and how to enter the other OS,is this where you also tried to get back into windows 10 ?
    http://www.howtogeek.com/197647/how-to-dual-boot-windows-10-with-windows-7-or-8/


    Refresh on MBR (legacy) install like yours i believe, it can only be done through the OS using Advanced recovery options in Windows 10, not from booting from a Windows 10 disc, this can only be done from a UEFI BIOS. Refresh would be one option, as we know refresh will not loose any settings, but will loose any installed programs other option you can do a clean install on that partition too. In Safe mode, if this is only way you can get to Windows 10, can try accessing Advanced Recovery options, select reset, take option for refresh. Hope you always kept backups of important files on external device and even as said system images, Rule #1.

    https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/2...dows-10-a.html
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  5.    30 Sep 2015 #25
    Join Date : Sep 2015
    Posts : 34
    Windows 10 Pro 64-bit
    Thread Starter

    Quote Originally Posted by dalchina View Post
    Hi, there's a suggestion here- ok, it's not Win 10, but the principle is exactly the same-
    Startup repair menu doesn't see an operating system Solved - Windows 7 Help Forums

    You'll need a bootable disk for a partition manager. That will let you see if the correct partitions are marked appropriately.
    Thanks for your message! I'm pleased to say I've got Windows 10 working again - and no need to re-install windows 8, as per the MS chap's suggestion...! See below for more details. Anyway, I'm having a look at Macrium Reflect as we speak. ;-) I was trusting Windows to do this itself, but will now investigate other ways of keeping disk images.

    Thanks again. :-)
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  6.    30 Sep 2015 #26
    Join Date : Jul 2015
    Poole Dorset UK
    Posts : 2,562
    Windows 10 x64 Home Version(1709) Build16299.98

    Quote Originally Posted by SirDigbyChicken View Post
    Thanks for your message! I'm pleased to say I've got Windows 10 working again - and no need to re-install windows 8, as per the MS chap's suggestion...! See below for more details. Anyway, I'm having a look at Macrium Reflect as we speak. ;-) I was trusting Windows to do this itself, but will now investigate other ways of keeping disk images.

    Thanks again. :-)
    I can recommend macrium reflect as used it myself and got it in a folder ready to load again if needed
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  7.    30 Sep 2015 #27
    Join Date : Sep 2015
    Posts : 34
    Windows 10 Pro 64-bit
    Thread Starter

    Quote Originally Posted by jds63 View Post
    I missed the part from the beginning that you were dual booting with Windows 7.
    Believe it or not, this machine was originally running Vista, which was upgraded to 7. I then did a fresh install of Windows 8 when my old SSD C: drive broke, but managed to dual boot - not that I ever use Windows 7...

    Saying you can only enter Windows 10 from safe mode, but you can get to the desktop and it is windows 7, 8, 8.1 ? How were you able to enter safe mode ?
    I could load Windows 7, but the 'mentions' of Windows 8 are erroneous as I'd upgraded to 10. So I wasn't able to boot into 8, but was able to use the Change Defaults... - Choose Other Options - Troubleshoot - Start-up Settings method from the boot menu to get into Windows 10 Safe Mode. That's how I knew Windows 10 was still there, somehow... ;-)

    Unchecking Use Original Boot did not work ? When you said was no signs of it in MSCONFIG, did you check the Boot tab and did not see it there ? As it can be then set as default there.
    I was eventually able to uncheck Use Original Boot Menu, but the damage had been done...

    Not familiar with dual boot,know it uses 2 partitions on a disk drive or 2 disk drives.As this shows you about it and how to enter the other OS,is this where you also tried to get back into windows 10 ?
    http://www.howtogeek.com/197647/how-to-dual-boot-windows-10-with-windows-7-or-8/


    Refresh on MBR (legacy) install like yours i believe, it can only be done through the OS using Advanced recovery options in Windows 10, not from booting from a Windows 10 disc, this can only be done from a UEFI BIOS. Refresh would be one option, as we know refresh will not loose any settings, but will loose any installed programs other option you can do a clean install on that partition too. In Safe mode, if this is only way you can get to Windows 10, can try accessing Advanced Recovery options, select reset, take option for refresh. Hope you always kept backups of important files on external device and even as said system images, Rule #1.

    https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/2...dows-10-a.html
    ...Anyway, I was able to get Windows 10 working again. I downloaded EasyBCD (EasyBCD - NeoSmart Technologies) and Dual-boot Repair 10 (Dual-boot Repair Windows 10). The latter saw that there was a Windows 10 installation that wasn't a boot option, but Automatic Repair didn't work. So I used EasyBCD to create a new (Windows 7/8!) entry, and made sure that everything was pointing to the C: and not D: drives. I then used Dual-boot Repair to Repair MBR & Boot Records, and to Repair BCD. I'm not absolutely sure I needed all of these steps, but, one way or another, it worked!

    I'm now, much to my great relief, back in Windows 10, and shall be sending suitable contributions to the makers of those two programs. ;-) I'm also very grateful for everyone's help here. It was a waste of a day, but I'm now back on track... (If I'd done what the MS chap had suggested, though... (shivers))

    I'm now returning to my original problem, and have successfully performed a clean boot. The PC was still working when I came down this morning, so I'm now convinced - as per your original thought - that it's something loading (either via Services, or via Startup) that doesn't agree with Windows 10. I'm going through these items in groups of about five until I can force a 'freeze', and hope (eventually) to be able to isolate the culprit.

    I've also uninstalled and am in the process of reinstalling my AV and Firewall software.

    I'll let you know when I have a solution. Thanks again!
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  8.    30 Sep 2015 #28
    Join Date : Sep 2015
    Posts : 34
    Windows 10 Pro 64-bit
    Thread Starter

    Quote Originally Posted by hTconeM9user View Post
    I can recommend macrium reflect as used it myself and got it in a folder ready to load again if needed
    I shall definitely install ASAP. I've just upgraded my NAS to 2TB, so I have no excuse, really.
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  9.    30 Sep 2015 #29
    Join Date : Jul 2015
    Poole Dorset UK
    Posts : 2,562
    Windows 10 x64 Home Version(1709) Build16299.98

    Quote Originally Posted by SirDigbyChicken View Post
    Believe it or not, this machine was originally running Vista, which was upgraded to 7. I then did a fresh install of Windows 8 when my old SSD C: drive broke, but managed to dual boot - not that I ever use Windows 7...


    I could load Windows 7, but the 'mentions' of Windows 8 are erroneous as I'd upgraded to 10. So I wasn't able to boot into 8, but was able to use the Change Defaults... - Choose Other Options - Troubleshoot - Start-up Settings method from the boot menu to get into Windows 10 Safe Mode. That's how I knew Windows 10 was still there, somehow... ;-)



    I was eventually able to uncheck Use Original Boot Menu, but the damage had been done...



    ...Anyway, I was able to get Windows 10 working again. I downloaded EasyBCD (EasyBCD - NeoSmart Technologies) and Dual-boot Repair 10 (Dual-boot Repair Windows 10). The latter saw that there was a Windows 10 installation that wasn't a boot option, but Automatic Repair didn't work. So I used EasyBCD to create a new (Windows 7/8!) entry, and made sure that everything was pointing to the C: and not D: drives. I then used Dual-boot Repair MBR & Boot Records, and to Repair BCD. I'm not absolutely sure I needed all of these steps, but, one way or another, it worked!

    I'm now, much to my great relief, back in Windows 10, and shall be sending suitable contributions to the makers of those two programs. ;-) I'm also very grateful for everyone's help here. It was a waste of a day, but I'm now back on track... (If I'd done what the MS chap had suggested, though... (shivers))

    I'm now returning to my original problem, and have successfully performed a clean boot. The PC was still working when I came down this morning, so I'm now convinced - as per your original thought - that it's something loading (either via Services, or via Startup) that doesn't agree with Windows 10. I'm going through these items in groups of about five until I can force a 'freeze', and hope (eventually) to be able to isolate the culprit.

    I've also uninstalled and am in the process of reinstalling my AV and Firewall software.

    I'll let you know when I have a solution. Thanks again!
    Yes when you do please post what the outcome was then mark the problem solved so that if anyone else has that trouble they know what to do and go about solving it
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  10.    05 Oct 2015 #30
    Join Date : Sep 2015
    Posts : 34
    Windows 10 Pro 64-bit
    Thread Starter

    OK, time for an update. Basically I've spent the last few days trying to do some work and, every time the PC has frozen, I've tried something else. This morning I reached *28 hours* without a problem, and then the dreaded freeze happened again. So I can't, hand-on-heart, mark this as Solved.

    A few things to observe (I may be repeating myself, but I'm going through my copious notes...!). It does seem to be a freeze rather than a crash as nothing seems to come up in the logs (NB. music stops, sometimes the desktop freezes, then the monitor goes black and switches off and the PC does not respond to anything other than a hardware reset). I've never had a freeze in Safe Mode - however, given that the PC can seem fine for many hours, I am not sure if that's helpful or not...

    However, taking on board much of the advice given to me, I started with a clean boot (no non-MS services, manually disabled all Startup items). That *seemed* stable, so I started the process of trying to identify a culprit. Re-enabling Startup items caused a freeze, but then, so did (on a separate boot) re-enabling non-MS services instead. Could it be something in both? And then, on a whim, I disabled all the MS Services instead - and, though obviously the end result was FUBAR'd, it *seemed* stable too. And as soon as I re-enabled them, the freezes came back. Could it be an MS service to blame, and that I was 'lucky' when doing a clean boot?

    Until today's freeze - and it took me hours of frustration to get to this point - I would have pointed the finger at the Power service. (I would disable 10 services at a time, wait for a crash, then disable another 10... The culprit seemed to be the Power service.) I certainly get best results (i.e. longest periods between freezes) with this disabled. But, as I say, it's not a solution, as it just happened again earlier. So perhaps it's just a coincidence - I'm not sure I'm any further forward, but would welcome any thoughts...

    Incidentally, I've also installed Macrium Reflect to make some images (in itself it has made the PC no more or less stable). I've uninstalled and reinstalled my AV and firewall software of choice (Avast and Comodo) - again, made no difference one way or the other. I've uninstalled Start8, and installed Start10 instead (ditto). I've done what I think you could describe as a repair install from a DVD made from the latest ISO (ditto, though it was stable for almost 24 hours after that). I've turned off sleep mode, changed the power plan to High Performance, turned off hibernation, etc. (all this before I disabled the Power service, obviously) - ditto. I have, variously, disabled the Geolocation service, and re-enabled it via regedit (Windows 10 release notes - known issues) - ditto. I've run sfc/ scannow numerous times, and it doesn't find anything. Ditto the dism commands (Dism /Online /Cleanup-Image /CheckHealth ; Dism /Online /Cleanup-Image /ScanHealth ; Dism /Online /Cleanup-Image /RestoreHealth ).

    It could, I guess, be a hardware problem, but it's odd that this happened when I upgraded. Windows 8.1 was rock solid. I don't have a Fast Boot on my BIOS (latest BIOS, though I appreciate my motherboard is ancient!). I ran several full memory tests, and they were fine.

    I've fiddled around with different pagefile sizes. I've checked my scheduled tasks. I've run an anti-malware program. I've uninstalled Samsung Magician. I've reinstalled Samsung Magician and told it to make changes (Maximum Reliability). I've even, in my desperation, taken the side panel off my case, just to make sure it wasn't overheating!

    Anyway, that's where I'm at. Does any of this make sense?! I need to go off and do some work now (currently 40 minutes since the last freeze), but any thoughts gratefully received. And thank you all for your suggestions thus far!
      My ComputerSystem Spec

 
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