Windows 10: Do you think Ms Reads these Forums -- would be a good idea

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  1.    11 Oct 2014 #11

    I would think they scan through forums like this just to see what's going on and then read the threads that get their attention. Now saying that I do think that MS has key people that provide the majority of feedback that's used. It would be totally chaotic if MS, or any company, used all of the feedback they're receiving right now.

    What I think they want right now is feedback that's useful for the future development and patches for the current version of Windows 10. Simply going in with totally negative feedback will likely be ignored.

    My 2c
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  2. Kari's Avatar
    Posts : 15,009
    Windows 10 Pro
       11 Oct 2014 #12

    Note   Note
    What follows is a philosophical rant, a subjective opinion of an individual member. Click here if you want to skip the rant and get a one sentence summary :).

    I am ashamed of an astronomical amount of things in my life but I am not ashamed of this: I am a Windows and Microsoft fan boy. In fact, in a strange way I am even a bit proud of that. I like the way Windows as operating system has evolved and where it seems to be going, I like the new way to use Office, Office 365. I like the way Sharepoint and Azure have made things easier and (really!) even more affordable to small businesses (big ones, too, but I am mostly interested in what they can offer for smaller businesses and private entrepreneurs).

    That being said I feel it is my obligation to participate in and enable every "call home" feature possible in all Microsoft operating systems and programs, "call home" feature here meaning those "Would you like to help Microsoft and allow your PC sending information about your use of this OS / program?". Take for instance installing Windows 8.1, I always select Customize here:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    ... which allows me to enable these three settings which by default are disabled and remain disabled if Express Settings are selected:

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    I do this when I install any version of Windows or Windows Live or Office or Visual Studio or Sharepoint Designer or whatever; if the possibility to participate is there, I will enable it.

    I have a simple, you might even say naive reason for this: I like to believe that my action counts, that in some strange way I am not capable to understand a geek in Redmond just might find something in error, install or other reports sent by my PC which then might be a small part in finding a solution or better way to do something. Of course I know this must never happen but as long as the possibility is there, I will participate. An analogy from politics and democracy, it's a litlle bit like voting: your vote alone means nothing but enough people voting like you might (as has happened) even make way to democracy.

    In addition, this gives me a good feeling that as a user I am doing my share in making the next version even better.


    I am not sure if MS reads every feedback they get but I am sure that it is important to give feedback. I will, I hope you do, too.

    Last edited by Kari; 11 Oct 2014 at 17:59.
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  3.    11 Oct 2014 #13

    Yeah I don't care what they collect as long as it's not my porn, kidding, I've never had any real major gripes with Windows, I'm happy to let them collect whatever they need to make the system better.

    I really hope they succeed in their current mission to unify Windows on multiple devices.
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  4.    11 Oct 2014 #14

    Who is "they"? "Microsoft" is not a person. "Microsoft" does not read news groups, or message forums. It's almost a certainty that Microsoft employees visit this board, but that doesn't mean they're acting in any official capacity, or even have any ability to act on anything they read here.

    Any data Microsoft (the organization) collects most likely will only come from verifiable and quantifiable sources, not anonymous sources on message boards. So it's highly unlikely that anything you say here will have any affect on Microsoft at all. If you say something, and Microsoft later does it, it's almost certainly because other more connected people have said it to them (usually people who give them vast sums of money).
      My ComputerSystem Spec

  5. Posts : 37,567
    Dual boot Windows 10 FCU Pro x 64 & current Insider 10 Pro
       11 Oct 2014 #15

    I'm with Kari and BillyBob so far as joining CEIP (Microsoft Customer Experience Improvement Program). They read "real world data" before they read opinions as explained here: Designing the Start screen - Building Windows 8 - Site Home - MSDN Blogs

    As we wrote about in our post on evolving the Start menu, after studying real world usage of the Start menu through a variety of techniques, we realized that it was serving mainly as the launcher for programs you rarely use. As more and more launching takes place from the task bar, the Start menu looks like a lot of user interface for programs you don't use very frequently. And the Start menu is not well-optimized for this purpose. It affords limited customization, provides virtually no useful information, and offers only a small space for search results. We found that people “in the know” who valued efficiency were moving away from the Start menu, and pinning their frequently used programs to the taskbar so that they could access them instantly in one click. We see this quite a bit on professional workstations where there are set of tools that all fit on the taskbar and are all used regularly—machines used by engineers, designers, developers, information workers, etc.
    One can see the data they collected on this page that was linked in the last: Evolving the Start menu - Building Windows 8 - Site Home - MSDN Blogs

    So what is "real world usage of the Start menu through a variety of techniques"? Looks to me like the data collected + opinions of [people “in the know” (Pros/power users via MSDN blogs)] = what MS makes decisions on.

    I don't think we're all that important. As Mystere explained > MS employees may drop in unofficially, or even a few members that I read claimed to work for MS, but I don't think it has much bearing. There may be some chatter around the MS campus and/or world offices what is posted on forums, but for the most part it has no bearing on MS decisions. I think one is better off being heard on MSDN blogs and now the feedback app.

    What amazes me is that after all the "real world data" was deciphered and MS introduced the Start Screen, now all of a sudden it's a big deal. I still think very few use the Start Menu. Take a look here: Show Us Your Desktop Taskbar and desktop icons galore. Start Menu my arse!
    Last edited by Tony K; 11 Oct 2014 at 23:55.
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  6. ThrashZone's Avatar
    Posts : 3,826
    3-Win-7Prox64 2-Win10Prox64
       12 Oct 2014 #16

    First thing is there's a big difference in the size of text in win-10 and win-7 start menu list,
    I personally have a hard time seeing the text in 10 no issues at all in 7
    probably because 7 uses white and black font opposed to dk blue and white text
    But even with that the font is smaller and doesn't seem to work off dpi settings at all for some reason

    Bing also has No place or business on the start search but win-7-8 all I had t do is not download that win update,
    10 it's there and can not be removed,
    Type anything local on your machine/ file/ program... and hit the enter key,
    Welcome to the Bing spin zone sense less.
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  7. lehnerus2000's Avatar
    Posts : 1,772
    W7 Ultimate SP1 (64 bit), LM 18.3 MATE (64 bit), W10 Home 1703 (64 bit), W10 Pro 1703 (64 bit) VM
       12 Oct 2014 #17

    HippsieGypsie said: View Post
    What amazes me is that after all the "real world data" was deciphered and MS introduced the Start Screen, now all of a sudden it's a big deal. I still think very few use the Start Menu.
    W8 clearly demonstrated the difference between "collecting data" and "interpreting data".

    The data only showed that people in the CEIP weren't using the W7 Start Menu.

    MS should have realised that the number of people in the program was obviously significantly less that the total number of W7 installs (legitimate + pirated).
    Surely they keep track of how many times updates are downloaded.

    I say "obviously" because one of the biggest complaints (if not the biggest complaint) about the W8 series, related to the missing/replaced Start Menu.

    HippsieGypsie said: View Post
    Take a look here: Show Us Your Desktop Taskbar and desktop icons galore. Start Menu my arse!
    Depends on which page you are viewing. :)
    Last edited by lehnerus2000; 12 Oct 2014 at 20:18. Reason: Additional
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  8. Posts : 37,567
    Dual boot Windows 10 FCU Pro x 64 & current Insider 10 Pro
       12 Oct 2014 #18

    I had to chuckle at myself. As you can see I was up rather late last night surfing the forums because I spent some time yesterday trying to decipher what's wrong with my tower. It's down for the count yet again. Getting up this morning having my coffee the title of your thread finally struck me. I guess I was bewildered about my PC at the time and also realized I got caught up in others posts, but never really answered your question, Jim.

    Do you think Ms Reads these Forums -- would be a good idea?

    On one hand, yes. There is a lot of rigorous testing performed here (as you stated) by enthusiastic geeks. But, what are we really testing? A couple of popular threads that were started pronto just after the preview broke were Windows 10 Preview Tested Apps and Members are still posting there, but the OPs haven't updated theirs daily as in the beginning. Perhaps they're busy?

    Any which way, although I think this is a great help forum and don't want to discount it in any way, but it's really not a scientifically organized test site. It's kind of all over the place to an outsider. One must be an active member to get the real benefits of it. They may, but I think MS isn't looking in. Overall I think the feedback app is the best bet.

    Also, it may be a little prejudice here. I could be wrong, but it seems that most of the members that have joined in the swell of the recent membership has been 7F members checking out the new Start Menu and testing to see how many of the Win32 desktop apps run in 10. That to me is the crux of the matter for them. BTW, not a one of the Modern Store apps are listed in the columns of the tested apps thread, although they run great. At least for me they do.

    There are some of us Modern "fanbois" that post, but I think most are laying back in the woods until we see how much of the Modern gets turned on. For now, booting to the Start Screen is greyed out. A PITA for me anyway, but I can't speak for the rest.

    I don't know about anyone else, but I read the agreement before signing up and downloading 10 that in return they would supply the feedback app and collect user data so as to "create an OS together". Surely they presented the "template", but I should think they should be sincere with the final result. Anyone not using the app and/or blocking user data I think are cheating themselves out of "voting".
    Last edited by Tony K; 12 Oct 2014 at 11:37.
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  9.    12 Oct 2014 #19

    Hmm I think there is a lot of worth or real life users, as far as windows 7 users, if you can get us to use and like 10 then MS wins here, lets face it, Windows 8 and 8.1 as it was RTM is a disaster, I hate it. My wife has an 8.1 touch screen laptop and we had to put classic shell on it to use the darn thing. I hated the apps screen and "Charms" Basically I wanted a cool interface but with some 7 features. I want to run 10 year old software and brand new apps and software.

    So far I'm doing that with 10 and it seems to work well for the most part.

    I think these forums should be included in reading for MS developers, there is some good info in these threads.

      My ComputerSystem Spec

  10.    12 Oct 2014 #20

    Rickkins said: View Post
    Well if they had any brains at all they would.

    So, no.
      My ComputerSystem Spec

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