Does 16 bit work yet on a 64 bit windows 10 OS?

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  1. Jody Thornton's Avatar
    Posts : 487
    Windows 8 Pro x64
       #21

    groze said:
    Lmiller 7, I misunderstood Waltc, I didn't read it correctly. I assumed Waltc compiled dos box 64 bit version that ran windows 16 bit programs. I was wrong, sorry.
    DOS Box DOES (I repeat) DOES run 16 bit Windows applications. I simply set up a DOSBox.conf file/session, installed Windows 3.1 inside it, and even the Calmira desktop, to give it a Win9x look with a Start Menu. I have used this setup ever since I migrated to Windows XP x64 Edition.

    My issue is, I wish there was a 32 bit version of the original Jezzball. Then I'd have no need for 16-bit Windows emulation.
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  2. Posts : 1,557
    W10 32 bit, XUbuntu 18.xx 64 bit
    Thread Starter
       #22

    Jody Thornton said:
    DOS Box DOES (I repeat) DOES run 16 bit Windows applications. I simply set up a DOSBox.conf file/session, installed Windows 3.1 inside it, and even the Calmira desktop, to give it a Win9x look with a Start Menu. I have used this setup ever since I migrated to Windows XP x64 Edition.

    My issue is, I wish there was a 32 bit version of the original Jezzball. Then I'd have no need for 16-bit Windows emulation.
    Yes, you can install Win 3.1 inside dos box that everyone know that but you need to have a license for that, I actually bought them but through out the w 3.1. floppies. Just installing dos box alone won't let run any windows program. I think that what Lmiller 7 was saying.
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  3. Jody Thornton's Avatar
    Posts : 487
    Windows 8 Pro x64
       #23

    Gotcha! I was just figuring Windows 3.x was easy enough to get one's hands on.
    :)
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  4. Layback Bear's Avatar
    Posts : 983
    Windows 7/64 Professional
       #24

    I'm somewhat confused.
    We are here trying to learn and help make W-10 a better operating system and somehow we got in 16 bit 3.1 system.

    This coffee I'm drinking must be to strong.
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  5. Jody Thornton's Avatar
    Posts : 487
    Windows 8 Pro x64
       #25

    The whole thread was about someone wanting to run 16 bit apps in an x64 OS (namely Windows 10 in this case). It may have sidetracked a wee bit, but we're on topic).

    Good coffee? :)
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  6. Mystere's Avatar
    Posts : 3,223
    Windows 10 Pro
       #26

    What Petey7 is trying to get across is that this is not something that's in Microsoft's control to a great extent.

    The Intel and AMD 64 bit processors are physically incapable of natively running 16 bit applications when running 64 bit operating systems. It's impossible, and no amount of hacking or fiddling can make it work. That means, Windows will *NEVER* support 16 bit applications on a 64 bit OS, at least unless Intel changes the architecture of the CPU to support this.. and it's unlikely that will happen.

    32 bit Windows (including Windows 10) runs in 32 bit mode, and thus supports running native 16 bit apps (although there are still compatibility issues to deal with from multiple upgrade versions)

    Now, note that I did say "natively" up there. It's certainly possible to emulate a 16 bit virtual machine and run 16 bit applications. 64 bit Windows 8, 8.1 and 10 professional and Enterprise all come with Client Hyper-V, and you can run a 32 bit version of Windows, or even a 16 bit version of DOS or Windows in a VM. You can also run other VM software, including DOSBox. DOSBox, I believe is completely emulated (non-virtualized) and is quite slow. But, it works. This is no different from running a Nintendo emulator, or whatever.

    Wine on Linux is a totally different beast. Wine stands for "Wine is not an emulator". Wine is a "translator". It translates 16 bit Windows applications into a native 32 or 64 bit Linux application, this is what allows Wine to run 16 bit apps on 64 bit OS's. It's no longer a 16 bit app.

    Could Microsoft do something similar for Windows? Sure... if they wanted to... but it's unlikely they will. And yes, it is a lot of effort, and very costly. Wine has been in development for over a decade and is still only about 60% effective.
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  7. Posts : 1,557
    W10 32 bit, XUbuntu 18.xx 64 bit
    Thread Starter
       #27

    Mystere said:
    What Petey7 is trying to get across is that this is not something that's in Microsoft's control to a great extent.

    The Intel and AMD 64 bit processors are physically incapable of natively running 16 bit applications when running 64 bit operating systems. It's impossible, and no amount of hacking or fiddling can make it work. That means, Windows will *NEVER* support 16 bit applications on a 64 bit OS, at least unless Intel changes the architecture of the CPU to support this.. and it's unlikely that will happen.

    32 bit Windows (including Windows 10) runs in 32 bit mode, and thus supports running native 16 bit apps (although there are still compatibility issues to deal with from multiple upgrade versions)

    Now, note that I did say "natively" up there. It's certainly possible to emulate a 16 bit virtual machine and run 16 bit applications. 64 bit Windows 8, 8.1 and 10 professional and Enterprise all come with Client Hyper-V, and you can run a 32 bit version of Windows, or even a 16 bit version of DOS or Windows in a VM. You can also run other VM software, including DOSBox. DOSBox, I believe is completely emulated (non-virtualized) and is quite slow. But, it works. This is no different from running a Nintendo emulator, or whatever.

    Wine on Linux is a totally different beast. Wine stands for "Wine is not an emulator". Wine is a "translator". It translates 16 bit Windows applications into a native 32 or 64 bit Linux application, this is what allows Wine to run 16 bit apps on 64 bit OS's. It's no longer a 16 bit app.

    Could Microsoft do something similar for Windows? Sure... if they wanted to... but it's unlikely they will. And yes, it is a lot of effort, and very costly. Wine has been in development for over a decade and is still only about 60% effective.

    Can you explain something Mystere in a little more detail. I do know some of the answer or at least I think do. How come you can install a Windows 32 bit operating system on a 64 bit machine and run both 32 bit and 16 bit applications if the processor doesn't support it?
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  8. Posts : 1,096
    Windows 7
       #28

    A 64 bit capable computer has a CPU that can as either 32 or 64 bit. When running a 32 bit OS the CPU is in 32 bit mode with all it's attendant capabilities - including the capability to run 16 bit code. When running a 64 bit OS the CPU is in 64 bit mode with all of it's attendant capabilities. The ability to run 16 bit code is not one of them.
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  9. Posts : 1,557
    W10 32 bit, XUbuntu 18.xx 64 bit
    Thread Starter
       #29

    LMiller7 said:
    A 64 bit capable computer has a CPU that can as either 32 or 64 bit. When running a 32 bit OS the CPU is in 32 bit mode with all it's attendant capabilities - including the capability to run 16 bit code. When running a 64 bit OS the CPU is in 64 bit mode with all of it's attendant capabilities. The ability to run 16 bit code is not one of them.
    I understand the above real well surprisingly for me.

    I hope this is correct. I am assuming that the emulation done for the Windows 64 bit operating system so it can still support 32 bit applications. SysWow64

    I also have been reading about wine. They are working on system called Wine64, it suppose to work with 64 bit, 32 bit and 16 bit applications it is just in the early development stages. This is not just for Linux.

    One person had developed a NTVDM64 but I don't know how it works or if it still in development or been abandoned.
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  10. Petey7's Avatar
    Posts : 98
    Windows 10 Pro 64-bit
       #30

    LMiller7 said:
    A 64 bit capable computer has a CPU that can as either 32 or 64 bit. When running a 32 bit OS the CPU is in 32 bit mode with all it's attendant capabilities - including the capability to run 16 bit code. When running a 64 bit OS the CPU is in 64 bit mode with all of it's attendant capabilities. The ability to run 16 bit code is not one of them.
    Technically, when its in 32-bit mode (which is the same thing as "legacy mode" which I mentioned before) its not natively running 16-bit code either. Its being run through NTDVM.
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