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  1.    25 Jan 2016 #11
    Join Date : Jan 2016
    Posts : 5
    win10

    Quote Originally Posted by AndreyT View Post
    Um.... I'm not aware of any contrast issues in Windows 10. Definitely not to the degree described in your post. Care to post a picture of what you are talking about?
    Try turning your screen contrast up, you will reach a point where you can't see the scrollbars and other gray scaled coloured UI. (for me i need to halve my normal contrast to get a clear view of the grayish UI elements, which is quite a big issue for gaming, drawing, editing etc.)
    I can imagine that many users won't notice it, but for anyone that is a heavy user of graphical applications. Such as games, video makers, Photoshop, etc. it is a huge issue because we tend to have our screens turned up on the contrast lvl. Because it makes a HUGE difference on several important aspects of what we use our systems too.

    I am not sure how you expect us to post an image since the contrast you are running your screen in would change the image you see.
    So unless you mean an ugly one from a phone it is not quite possible
    but here i made two where you can see the difference (from the phone, so they ain't to pretty)

    notice how the scrollbars have completely disappeared from the "normal contrast" ? That is what happens to ALL grayish UI elements.

    As said this haven't been an issue in earlier versions of win and there is absolutely no justification for having it now.

    edit:
    btw: most people are bringing the problem thinking it is a colours scheme issue, which I personally also assumed it was. It actually took me quite a while to figure out that someone could be "silly" enough to tamper with the useful range of the contrast and have absolutely no reasonable way to work around it with example: colour scheme changes.
    However, this is NOT a new issue and there is as said a ton of massages complaining about issues with being unable to see the scroll bars and other grayish ui elements.
    Mostly it is written as a colours scheme problem because few would be aware by default that it would be a contrast issue on win10... for obvious reasons (and it could be fixed with the correct colours scheme, which ofcouse isn't available to change specific ui element in win10... and using overhauls will remove the UI graphical elements on the vast amounts of applications and websites).
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails normal contrast.jpg   half contrasr.jpg  
    Last edited by tjaranis; 25 Jan 2016 at 13:16.
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  2.    25 Jan 2016 #12
    Join Date : Oct 2015
    Posts : 164
    WINDOWS 10 PRO Updated to last Build

    The graphic side is not managed by the OS, you should set both the monitor and the graphic card software to their default settings and then adjust it moving cursors slightly; also brightness and gamma can modify the perceived contrast.
    Consumer graphic cards software and monitors are optimized to look at pictures and video on the web, and not for the OS.
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  3.    25 Jan 2016 #13
    Join Date : Jan 2016
    Posts : 5
    win10

    Quote Originally Posted by Gas View Post
    The graphic side is not managed by the OS, you should set both the monitor and the graphic card software to their default settings and then adjust it moving cursors slightly; also brightness and gamma can modify the perceived contrast.
    Consumer graphic cards software and monitors are optimized to look at pictures and video on the web, and not for the OS.

    You should read the issue before posting "silly stuff".
    it is clearly stated that the issue is NOT that any changes has been made to either monitor or graphic card software. But a change to the OS's colours scheme setup or contrast range limits (I am guessing the latter).

    Now I say it again just for people who refuse to read the thread.
    THIS HAS NEVER BEEN AN ISSUE WITH ANY OTHER WINDOWS SYSTEMS!
    wasn't an issue with win7, wasn't with win8, (never notice it on earlier version either, but lets be fair and only look at the “newer” win OS’s) so that it is a major issue with win10 should tell you someone behind the design f'ed up.
    The FACT this issue isn't fixed yet, and apparently not even acknowledged as an issue, is just mindboggling!
    If I put the same lack of effort and the “I don’t give a f” attitude that this shows into my work I would have been fired and replaced with someone more competent and willing to actually do their job.

    Now if there was just a reasonable work around I could say, “ok fine, at least there is a way to fix it” but the ONLY suggestion I have seen that might work (and the only I haven’t tried because of the major hassle of doing so, and that it would still have issue’s with UI elements), is to overlay the UI with a custom CSS.
    Which as mentioned for people that knows how is a hassle, and for people that don’t isn’t possible, and either way it will remove image UI from most pages
    The only “alternative”, and it isn’t actually an alternative since it doesn’t fix the problem at all, is to simply accept that you will have to use suboptimal contrast and brightness which in return handicaps you in everything you are doing that requires your previous settings for optimal use.
    Of Couse you could keep turning the setting up and down continuously as you work, but seriously that would be the most idiotic suggestion yet and in line of “you could just push your car, you don’t need the convenience of an engine”.

    edit: also keep in mind that other UI elements are clearly visible without this issue with the contrast turned up, you can even see it in the picture that the gray element of the exit bottom (cross upper right corner) is still visible with the high contrast vs the low.
    so again there is really no excuse for the issue with the other UI elements which they screwed up, and even less for not having a workaround for it.
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  4.    25 Jan 2016 #14
    Join Date : Aug 2015
    Posts : 369
    Windows 10 Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by tjaranis View Post
    Try turning your screen contrast up, you will reach a point where you can't see the scrollbars and other gray scaled coloured UI.
    Well, what is "screen contrast"??? There is more than only way to change contrast. Are you referring to your monitor contrast settings that you adjust using hardware controls on your monitor? Or are you referring to screen contrast controls available, say, through your video card driver settings?

    Quote Originally Posted by tjaranis View Post
    I can imagine that many users won't notice it, but for anyone that is a heavy user of graphical applications. Such as games, video makers, Photoshop, etc. it is a huge issue because we tend to have our screens turned up on the contrast lvl. Because it makes a HUGE difference on several important aspects of what we use our systems too.
    Um, well... I'm a heavy user of graphical applications. Specifically, I do a lot of photo processing on calibrated and profiled monitors. However, I never had a reason to turn up my monitors' contrast levels to the point where they result in such detrimental effects (especially of the nature you describe). In fact, most of the time I calibrate and profile my monitors for using their native contract setting, which I keep at its comfortable level.

    Quote Originally Posted by tjaranis View Post
    I am not sure how you expect us to post an image since the contrast you are running your screen in would change the image you see.
    But that's the whole point: to figure out what exactly is causing your contrast issue. If your Windows has somehow switched to some bizarre low-contrast color scheme, then it would immediately be visible to anyone on your screenshot. If, on the other hand, the issue is caused purely by your monitor then the screenshot would look normal to us.

    From your description, it appears that the issue is caused solely by monitor settings. Well, I don't know what to say since, as I said above, despite being heavily involved with graphical applications I have never felt any need to jack up my monitor contrast settings to such high levels.
    Last edited by AndreyT; 25 Jan 2016 at 23:46.
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  5.    26 Jan 2016 #15
    Join Date : Oct 2015
    Posts : 164
    WINDOWS 10 PRO Updated to last Build

    Quote Originally Posted by tjaranis View Post
    You should read the issue before posting "silly stuff".
    it is clearly stated that the issue is NOT that any changes has been made to either monitor or graphic card software. But a change to the OS's colours scheme setup or contrast range limits (I am guessing the latter).

    Now I say it again just for people who refuse to read the thread.
    THIS HAS NEVER BEEN AN ISSUE WITH ANY OTHER WINDOWS SYSTEMS!
    wasn't an issue with win7, wasn't with win8, (never notice it on earlier version either, but lets be fair and only look at the “newer” win OS’s) so that it is a major issue with win10 should tell you someone behind the design f'ed up.
    The FACT this issue isn't fixed yet, and apparently not even acknowledged as an issue, is just mindboggling!
    If I put the same lack of effort and the “I don’t give a f” attitude that this shows into my work I would have been fired and replaced with someone more competent and willing to actually do their job.

    Now if there was just a reasonable work around I could say, “ok fine, at least there is a way to fix it” but the ONLY suggestion I have seen that might work (and the only I haven’t tried because of the major hassle of doing so, and that it would still have issue’s with UI elements), is to overlay the UI with a custom CSS.
    Which as mentioned for people that knows how is a hassle, and for people that don’t isn’t possible, and either way it will remove image UI from most pages
    The only “alternative”, and it isn’t actually an alternative since it doesn’t fix the problem at all, is to simply accept that you will have to use suboptimal contrast and brightness which in return handicaps you in everything you are doing that requires your previous settings for optimal use.
    Of Couse you could keep turning the setting up and down continuously as you work, but seriously that would be the most idiotic suggestion yet and in line of “you could just push your car, you don’t need the convenience of an engine”.

    edit: also keep in mind that other UI elements are clearly visible without this issue with the contrast turned up, you can even see it in the picture that the gray element of the exit bottom (cross upper right corner) is still visible with the high contrast vs the low.
    so again there is really no excuse for the issue with the other UI elements which they screwed up, and even less for not having a workaround for it.
    I think you are kind of very confused about how color management interacts with the OS and the related hardware connected; have you never heard about ICC profiles and color spaces, get information about these arguments, will be useful to understand how things work in the graphic aspect of a system (being kind of "professional!!!" user) you should have already learned about this matter ; after you did and cleared up the haze you have in your brain (if it happens you have one) about this matter you better apologize about the "silly stuff".
    Last edited by Gas; 26 Jan 2016 at 11:41.
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  6.    26 Jan 2016 #16
    Join Date : Nov 2015
    Posts : 2,953
    64bit Win 10 Pro ver 1709 Build 16299.98

    Dear Tjaranis,

    Please have a look at this website. I have viewed this in all operating systems I use and Windows 10 behaves no differently to W7 or W8. My monitor or settings have not needed tweaking because of an OS change.

    http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/

    Have a read of the information and instructions for using the test images. As it says: If you have any kind of color management system active in your operating system or video-card driver, then disable that first. First make adjustments to the monitor settings to let it behave as close to the ideal as possible, and only after that you can use the color management to compensate for any small deviations that remain.
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  7.    28 Jan 2016 #17
    Join Date : Jan 2016
    Posts : 5
    win10

    Quote Originally Posted by philc43 View Post
    Dear Tjaranis,

    Please have a look at this website. I have viewed this in all operating systems I use and Windows 10 behaves no differently to W7 or W8. My monitor or settings have not needed tweaking because of an OS change.

    http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/

    Have a read of the information and instructions for using the test images. As it says: If you have any kind of color management system active in your operating system or video-card driver, then disable that first. First make adjustments to the monitor settings to let it behave as close to the ideal as possible, and only after that you can use the color management to compensate for any small deviations that remain.
    ok let me put it this way:
    i got 4 system (2 labtops, 2 stationary), all had win 8 all functioning, around same screen contrast, only change updated from win8 to win10, ALL have this same issue, and ALL is "fixed" by lowering the contrast.
    HOWEVER, by lowering the screen contrast the colours alters their "clearness" (in lack of a better word) in comparison to each other, this is a major issue for the things i am using it to. and VERY damn annoying.

    now as some mention earlier, i have little knowledge about colour schemes, contrast etc. it is not my area of expectice neither is it something i use much time on.
    but I am not blind and i am not stupid in general when it comes to it (I got a ba in computer science and doing my master courses now and been working with coding for some time before that; so I am not a complete idiot on the subject).

    what I have noticed on 4 different pc's is that when upgrading from win8 to win10, All had the same issue.
    now when i search the net for this issue, there is A LOT! Of people complaining about the same thing. so I most assume someone ****ed up somewhere and it is not just something really weird that happened on all 4 systems due to pure unlucky.

    _______________________
    as for colour software I deliberately doesn't use any overlays of any kind due to it taking up resources that I need for the applications I run.

    ______________________
    I have tried everything which I could find as a “solution” without luck, except making my own CSS as an overlay (which as mentioned wouldn’t fix it, just created other issues by doing so, in the same manner as using a high contrast theme), but I can’t get the same clearness of the colours on win10 as I had in win8.

    I will check the “idea’s” given here (since I am not above believing I could be wrong), but I think most of you misunderstand the issue or straight out ignores it.

    (it does however annoy me quite a bit that something THAT simple needs to be such a plague to actually get to function... all that was needed was simply to insure that the UI colour scheme didn't have "invisible" elements when contrast is high. personally i would think this is basic areas to test when you are designing something.)
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  8.    28 Jan 2016 #18
    Join Date : Jan 2016
    Posts : 5
    win10

    Quote Originally Posted by AndreyT View Post
    Well, what is "screen contrast"??? There is more than only way to change contrast. Are you referring to your monitor contrast settings that you adjust using hardware controls on your monitor? Or are you referring to screen contrast controls available, say, through your video card driver settings?



    Um, well... I'm a heavy user of graphical applications. Specifically, I do a lot of photo processing on calibrated and profiled monitors. However, I never had a reason to turn up my monitors' contrast levels to the point where they result in such detrimental effects (especially of the nature you describe). In fact, most of the time I calibrate and profile my monitors for using their native contract setting, which I keep at its comfortable level.



    But that's the whole point: to figure out what exactly is causing your contrast issue. If your Windows has somehow switched to some bizarre low-contrast color scheme, then it would immediately be visible to anyone on your screenshot. If, on the other hand, the issue is caused purely by your monitor then the screenshot would look normal to us.

    From your description, it appears that the issue is caused solely by monitor settings. Well, I don't know what to say since, as I said above, despite being heavily involved with graphical applications I have never felt any need to jack up my monitor contrast settings to such high levels.
    I am sorry it was not clear enough.
    Screen contrast I assumed people would understand I meant the contrast adjusted on the screen, not software.
    I am running default on the graphic cards (no overlay set on or active) and changed nothing when it comes to this area on the system either.
    I generally tend to keep my fingers away from stuff which I don’t need

    _______________
    For applications, I do a lot of gaming where the contrast does a major difference on whether or not your eye notice the small changes in colour which indicates enemies (I generally play in top 2% so the difference is noticeable, just as much as 10+ms difference can be a major issue at that level). I do drawings and general artwork (just for fun) which I also find annoying when the colours are less “clear” (lack of a better word).

    But in the end it comes down to preference, and Needs. Some people might not need it, others might.
    What I reacted too is that, my needs have never been an issue in earlier windows systems, which is why I am so confused over why something would change from win8 to 10.

    As I mention in the post above, I am no expert when it comes to the colour schemes etc. it is not something I generally involved myself in or did an effort to learn, simply because I never had the need for it and my expertice lay elsewhere (and there is more than enough material I need to learn to not need extra hehe).
    But I find it daunting that this should suddenly be an issue.

    ______________________
    It is very nice for you that you have never felt the need for it, just like so many other things some people don’t feel the need for while others do.
    However as mentioned this is a personal preference, and the change is my complaint because I see no reason to make such a change which have this impact on a lot of users. if you search there are plenty of people mentioning this, and that is without thinking about all those that simply don’t know why, don’t care to write, or just give up on it.
    I had personally given up on a solution and is mostly writing out of pure irritation over how ridiculous it is that this is still an issue, when I imagine all that would be needed is a change to the colour type of the specific UI elements that handles the borders and scrollbars.

    BTW: there is properly a way to manually get the effect I am looking for by doing a lot of tweaking with colour scheme, effects etc. but again as said, not my expertice and not something I have an interest in using the time to learn, especially when I never needed it before.

    (you can see the two screenshot i did, that one is showing scollbars and borders of the text box, the other isn't, only difference is simply contrast being halved in the one you can see them)
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  9.    28 Jan 2016 #19
    Join Date : Nov 2015
    Posts : 2,953
    64bit Win 10 Pro ver 1709 Build 16299.98

    Hi Tjaranis,

    I appreciate your responses and further explanation. I recreated the effect on my laptop by simply adjusting the angle of my screen, there is a point where the scroll bar just disappears (quite normal for such LCD displays to behave in this way). What I don't know is whether this effect is worse in W10 than in W8 and unfortunately I don't have the means to test this. Perhaps someone with a dual boot laptop can test and report back.

    I also looked at my monitor settings on my desktop PC and I have the contrast set to 50%, this is the optimum setting for my monitor and always has been and was found a long time ago when using W8 and setting it up using the lagorn website I referred to in my earlier post.

    I do believe that even if there is a subtle difference between W8 and W10 you should be able to get to a really good screen view by setting up the monitor as I suggested in post #16 and working through all the tests. The viewing angle and a number of other aspects such as whether you are looking at the top or bottom of the screen can all make a difference, and of course some monitors are better quality than others.
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  10.    28 Jan 2016 #20
    Join Date : Oct 2015
    Posts : 164
    WINDOWS 10 PRO Updated to last Build

    Just change the word nature into W10 in my signature and you have the solution to this "enigma"
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