S0 Low Power Idle (Modern Standby) and wake from sleep

jimhoyle · 09 Aug 2021

Powercfg /a tells that the only supported sleep state is S0 Low Power Idle. That is a very confusing thing, I could not find satisfactory information by googling. Is that sleep state supposed to arm keyboard/mouse wakeup the exact same way than S3?

I see that if I force S3 (the HKLM\System\CurrentControlSet\Control\Power\PlatformAoAcOverride=0 trick), then sleep mode results in pulsating power button LED. However, when trying to wake from that state, not only keyboard/mouse doesn't work for wakeup, but also pressing the power button results in a crash. Fans turn on, power light turns permanently on, but nothing else happens, no image on the screen. Only holding power down (shutdown) will help at that point.

So in the S0 mode at least I can resume from sleep using power button, but I can't resume with keyboard/mouse. How do I troubleshoot this?

I tried maybe 15 different things already, nothing made any difference. When doing "powercfg /devicequery wake_armed" the keyboard and the mouse are listed. Also the laptop's integrated keyboard doesn't wake the computer and I have done "[x] Allow this device to wake the computer" everywhere I can think of.

Using Windows 10 version 21H1.

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If I insert an old mouse into the USB-A port directly on the laptop, and go to sleep, the mouse does light up (gets power). But no matter how many times I click the mouse, the computer doesn't wake up (and I made sure "[x] Allow this device to wake the computer" is enabled).

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I now tried to wake this computer by WOL (wake-on-lan). I know the magic packet goes through because "WOL - Magic Packet Sender" receives it went sent from another device. However, when sleeping, WOL won't wake it up either. (Wake on magic packet is enabled in the Ethernet adapter Advanced tab in Device Manager.)

Try3 · 09 Aug 2021

S0 is not really a sleep state but a glorified idle condition. There is no "wake" because there is no sleep.
Modern Standby wake sources - MSDocs
Scheduled wake from DRIPs (Modern Standby) - TenForums

I also tried inhibiting S0 [on the one computer I have that's afflicted with this curse] and I found that doing so did not enable S3 [Sleep]. So I went back to normal and just set it up so it remained on the network while the display was off i.e. while in S0.
Enable or Disable Network Connectivity in Modern Standby - TenForumsTutorials
Add Networking connectivity in Standby to Power Options - TenForumsTutorials

Denis

jimhoyle · 13 Aug 2021

If I understand correctly from what I read, USB keyboard and mouse should wake ... I mean bring the image to screen. On this new HP laptop (I tried installing all chipset downloadables etc.) there's no life. I can't get the computer back to life with USB keyboard/mouse, integrated laptop keyboard nor USB Ethernet wake-on-LAN (which should be also correctly set).

Any suggestions on how to troubleshoot this?

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Wow, I may have found the reason. It seems Classic Shell (or Open Shell), which I use instead of the original Windows 10 Start Menu, has different Sleep! So now I have to figure out how to change that different Sleep into the newer Sleep. And how to go to the modern standby sleep by running an external command.

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So, the command is: nircmd.exe monitor off

Next, I will try to find out a way to measure how many watts are wasted during that state. During that state, it's clearly not only monitor off because the power LED starts pulsating slowly.

Try3 · 13 Aug 2021

Jim,

I only have one S0 Modern standby computer and I am loathe to generalize from just the one experience but I have just conducted these tests:-
- I have tested 2 USB keyboards, 1 USB mouse & 1 Bluetooth mouse.
- They all bring the display back on.
None of them have the Device manager, Power management tab, Allow this device to wake the computer item set.

I don't think much of the available advice on the subject takes account of S0 Modern standby computers.
- I'm not surprised that that Device manager setting has no effect because I believe that it only relates to S3 Sleep.
Similarly, I think that Classic shell might very well only have S3 Sleep in mind when it refers to bringing the display back on.

I have never found a command to put the computer into S0 Modern standby. It is just an idle condition not a proper sleep state so the command you would need to find would be one that forced 'idle' on the computer and the nearest I have come to is a command to turn the display off [the thread page has just updated and I can see that you have already discovered that command].
- I just tried to repeat an experiment to demonstrate that it is in S0 Modern standby as soon as the display is off but doing this has messed things up so I have to reboot - I'll finish this post afterwards.

I had found a command that put the computer into S0 Modern standby but I had forgotten all about it. I use the same NirCmd that you do to turn off the display and that does send it straight into S0 Modern standby.
- I demonstrated its state by changing its network connectivity [purely for this test]
Enable or Disable Network Connectivity in Modern Standby - TenForumsTutorials
How to Check if Connected or Disconnected Modern Standby [PowerCfg -a] - TenForumsTutorials
- With the display off using the NirCmd & with connectivity enabled, the S0 computer remained on my network.
- With the display off using the NirCmd & with connectivity disabled, the S0 computer disappeared from my network.

In the middle of all this, my main computer [a proper S3 Sleep computer] decided to stop finding my other network computers [and they can't find it].
- Perhaps I just accidentally ran one of my S0-only commands on it while I was testing the other computer?
- This is the first network problem I've had for years. I'll have to treat this as my priority now.
Fixed

All the best,
Denis

Sorry, I also meant to post this for you
Modern Standby wake sources - MSDocs

jimhoyle · 13 Aug 2021

Ah yes, and now I tested what happens to temperatures on 45 minutes of "monitor off". The computer was semi-hot after that. I'll investigate about the watts and report later. Don't know if an external meter is the only way to measure the watts. If the wattage is terrible, next I have to find out a way to lower clocks as close to zero as possible, or something, to lower the wattage. ThrottleStop can be used for CPU clocks, but I don't know if that will be enough for a satisfactory solution. Of course I don't want to waste energy, heat the apartment and shorten the lifespan of the computer for an annoying reason like this.

Interestingly, TeamViewer sees the "monitor off" computer as offline. However, AnyDesk does claim the that computer is online. But, it can't connect, stuck on "Connection is progress".

Try3 · 13 Aug 2021

Jim,

I only use Hibernatation on my S0 computer whereas I normally use S3 Sleep on my others. [Hibernation only uses a trickle of power]
Other than that, I just let it sit there with its display off since I know that it is still on the network ready for any communal backing up / syncing.

I know nothing about AnyDesk but I do wonder if it is simply slow to detect a new state and that's why it is only discovering the problem when it tries to connect.

Denis

jimhoyle · 13 Aug 2021

Do you have wake by keyboard/mouse (and wake-on-LAN) working after Hibernate (on the S0 computer)? I couldn't get that working, at least not yet.
Also, I could not get wake-on-LAN working in the monitor off state. I guess the LAN never goes standby and therefore the wake-on-LAN magic packets do nothing. I wonder how to remotely resume the computer from "monitor off" then. TeamViewer does clearly go offline after "monitor off", so clearly it's not just monitor off but something else too.
AnyDesk does seem to have only a few seconds of poll interval for refreshing the online status. If I do Hibernate, the computer appears as offline in AnyDesk in just a few seconds time. But if I do monitor off, it stays "online".

If I knew about this S0 modern standby beforehand, I would've not gotten this very expensive and supposedly high-end HP laptop. The legacy sleep and WOL options are crucial as I operate in an environment where I have to regularly switch rooms and continue work on different computers.

Try3 · 14 Aug 2021

Jim,

jimhoyle said:

Do you have wake by keyboard/mouse (and wake-on-LAN) working after Hibernate (on the S0 computer)?

They can all bring the display back on from S0 whether or not there has been any hibernation since the last reboot.
None of them can wake the computer from hibernation. I always have to use the power button.

jimhoyle said:

... wake-on-LAN ...

I only have WiFi and not an Ethernet cable network so Wake-on-LAN is not an option for me.

For Wake-on-LAN to function, the computer must have Wake-on-LAN-capable Bios, motherboard, network adapter, network adapter driver.
There is some guidance in Enable or Disable Wake on LAN - TenForumsTutorials

The preceding two lines have exhausted my knowledge of WOL.

jimhoyle said:

TeamViewer does clearly go offline after "monitor off", so clearly it's not just monitor off but something else too.
AnyDesk does seem to have only a few seconds of poll interval for refreshing the online status. If I do Hibernate, the computer appears as offline in AnyDesk in just a few seconds time. But if I do monitor off, it stays "online".

I don't have anything like those so my only test was its connectivity with the rest of my network.

jimhoyle said:

If I knew about this S0 modern standby beforehand, I would've not gotten this very expensive and supposedly high-end HP laptop. The legacy sleep and WOL options are crucial as I operate in an environment where I have to regularly switch rooms and continue work on different computers.

Yes, I've also put S3 on my list of things to get explicit confirmation of before purchasing a computer.

- My S0 computer is a bit of an experiment in any case.
- It's actually a 10inch tablet with a special-to-type integrated keyboard so it has the form of a very small laptop.
- It fits in the poacher's pocket of my jacket so it can go anywhere with me.
- Whilst it is very slow, it runs all my applications and, with added USBs, it contains all my data.
- So I've been quite lucky - even with all the USB bits I've had to add on my S0 lesson has only cost me £300.

All the best,
Denis

jimhoyle · 14 Aug 2021

Nice. I have some experience on WOL since it's so important to me and I've set it up on several computers. Also Wake on Wireless LAN (WoWLAN) does exist (both WiFi device as the magic packet sender and as the magic packet receiver). But in my experience, waking is a bit of a gamble. You buy a system and then hope that waking works, often requiring a number steps to get it working (for example with USB devices it matters how your USB devices are connected, with or without hubs etc.).

Now I continue trying to find out how to remotely wake the S0 low idle computer.

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About the energy consumption: I have now measured the temperature. It's 40°C at the bottom on the laptop in the S0 idle (after hours of S0 idle). Also a fan is constantly on (very quiet and low speed, but still it is on). The bottom of the computer feels considerably warm to the hand. Needless to say, this is very bad design. Especially if there's no way to make the idle state much, much less energy consuming. On the bottom of the laptop there's a spot which is "hot", so this mode seems quite far away from the S3 sleep, which would keep a computer somewhere around the room temperature without running fans.

About the WOL when S0 idling: I can't get Add Networking connectivity in Standby to Power Options in Windows 10 working, in other words I can't get "Networking connectivity in Standby" to appear in Power Options, so it's possible that is Disabled permanently. Which might be the reason why I can't get WOL working. Even my ethernet adapter has "Modern Standby WoL Magic Packet" Enabled, it just doesn't work.

What is also surprising is that Google finds only 9 results on "modern standby wol magic packet". So apparently WOL is just not so popular (I do need to use it regularly on multiple computers).

Try3 · 14 Aug 2021

Jim,

You don't need it to appear in Power options to enable it. See
Enable or Disable Network Connectivity in Modern Standby - TenForumsTutorials
I used Option 3.
Just to save you a bit of typing, these are the commands to run to enable it.

Code:

powercfg /setdcvalueindex scheme_current sub_none F15576E8-98B7-4186-B944-EAFA664402D9 1
powercfg /setacvalueindex scheme_current sub_none F15576E8-98B7-4186-B944-EAFA664402D9 1

I'm very surprised that these commands do not require an elevated command prompt/ PS window but they don't.

Yes, I've heard of WoWLAN. There might come a day when I find it useful but I don't have any need for it at the moment or in the foreseeable future.

I think power consumption in S0 is one of its major failings [its biggest one being lack of S3 Sleep].
- I have seen other threads where people have also expressed concern about it.
- I have never seen a quantified assessment in which S0 power consumption is compared to a proper computer's power consumption when idle but I'd hazard the guess that there isn't very much difference at all.
- S0 is a glorified idle condition rather than a proper sleep state so I think its power consumption will always be massively greater than it would be in S3 Sleep.

I think your online searching is suffering from both WOL not being a common topic & S0 not being one. Perhaps you could post a question in that WOL tutorial thread in the hope that somebody subscribed to that thread has looked into S0 as well.

Best of luck,
Denis