1.    14 Aug 2015 #1
    Join Date : Jul 2015
    Posts : 114
    win 7 pro x64 (upgrade from XP/Pro OEM)

    Uninterruptible Power Supply a Requirement?


    Should it be a part of the 'test for readiness' of a system that it has a functioning uninterruptible power supply that will run the system long enough to allow any and all 'automatic updates to Windows 10.'

    In their wisdom, Microsoft tells us 'do not turn off your machine' when updates are running. It is already pretty much a part of life under Windows 7 and 8. Patches are downloaded, you shut down (perhaps for the night) and when you power up updates are installed and your machine restarts before the opera sting system is available for use.

    How many of us can predict in advance a 'power hiccup' that lasts just long enough to thoroughly screw up an update?

    How many of us might wake up in the morning concerned about the effects of a storm and forget that an update is waiting.

    Help me understand why users should not be told that an uninterruptible power supply is as much a requirement for running Windows 10 as sufficient memory or a powerful enough processor.

    thanks

    baumgrenze
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  2.    14 Aug 2015 #2
    Join Date : Dec 2013
    Sydney, Nova Scotia, Canada
    Posts : 10,604
    Windows 10 IoT

    It's an added cost and not all UPS are created equal. Not everybody can afford one for every PC they own. There is no way you can make that a requirement for Windows 10. It will never happen, IMHO. Plus, if you own a tablet or laptop that already has a battery, power failures during a Windows update shouldn't be an issue. Assuming your battery is up to snuff.
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  3.    14 Aug 2015 #3
    Join Date : Oct 2014
    Posts : 920
    Windows 10 Pro

    It's always a good practice to have an uninterruptible power supply on hand. WIth laptops they are becoming less of a requirement, but at the end of the day a $60 UPS makes for a great power strip that helps to protect your equipment.

    And in the event of a power failure, you can power a radio, or fish tank (minus the heater), for quite some time on a UPS.
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  4.    14 Aug 2015 #4
    Join Date : Jul 2015
    Posts : 20
    Windows 7 64

    Just a comment on UPS after seeing followup posts.

    Avoid cheap UPS.
    Many PC's today require what is known as 'pure sine wave' UPS delivering power to the PC power supply.
    Most UPS's out there in the less than 140 dollar range will not be such, in fact many much higher priced ones are not either.
    Those non pure sine wave UPS's were fine for PC users for decades but newer systems, will need a near real sine wave delivered
    to the power supply.
    It all depends on what the PC maker set up, home brew pc or some big name company pre-built. Up to you to figure it out if
    you buy a UPS.

    What that means, is if you have a PC needing pure sine wave is that in event of power outage, blip, etc, the non pure
    sine wave UPS will not work as desired or expected.

    If one lives in a area prone to blips, brownouts, etc.. yes IMO it is a required part of investment in having a PC assuming
    one wants to lower risk of data disaster.
    Currently, the only affordable pure sine wave (or near pure , pure enough) UPS's I know of are Cyberpower .
    APC makes them too but they cost twice as much. One has to read product lit carefully to know which one to get, as
    both product lines have non pure sine wave and old school approximate square wave versions.

    TLDR. 60 dollar UPS could be as useless as a dead fish in a tank, if you don't know what you are buying for a exact purpose.
    Research.
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  5.    14 Aug 2015 #5
    Join Date : Oct 2014
    Posts : 920
    Windows 10 Pro

    I've used numerous low priced UPS's both at work and at home. All have held up the equipment attached to them just fine. I also manage very large UPS's at work, so I have a fair amount of experience working with them.

    i understand that there is a lot of discussion about Active PFC power supplies and their "need" to run a pure sine wave UPS, but I haven't experienced any computers crash as soon as they have switched to battery power. A lot will come down to your exact power supply, but my APC Backup-Ups 500's to 1200, and my CyberPower UPS's have all worked fine. I have 6 UPS's at home and 7 at work.
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  6.    14 Aug 2015 #6
    Join Date : Aug 2014
    Forever West
    Posts : 3,986
    Win10 Home and Pro, Win10 Insider Preview, Win7 Home, Linux Mint

    Should it be a part of the 'test for readiness' of a system that it has a functioning uninterruptible power supply that will run the system long enough to allow any and all 'automatic updates to Windows 10.'
    Depending upon their wattage/KVA rating UPS' are only for allowing sufficient time for an orderly save of open documents and then shutting down, could be anywhere from 5 minutes to 15 or 20 minutes depending upon what is attached. I doubt there's any large enough to accommodate all of the automatic updates, whether to Win10 or earlier or any programs such as antivirus that have periodic updates. I remember when I worked for the FAA that had engine generators at remote sites to provide backup power during power failures it was necessary to have at least a minute backup to provide the generator time to start and get up to speed and cut in. The issue was the roughly 30 second lag between failure and startup that caused issues with electronic gear.
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  7.    28 Aug 2015 #7
    Join Date : Jul 2015
    Posts : 114
    win 7 pro x64 (upgrade from XP/Pro OEM)
    Thread Starter

    Interesting, I Learned, But How Serious is the Do Not Shut Off Notice?


    Thank you to everyone who replied to my question.

    I still do not understand the implications of a power failure during an automatic update of my Windows OS, whatever the number.

    It is good of Microsoft to warn us, 'do not turn off your machine,' but what are the consequences?

    If they are serious enough, it seems to me that a UPS with power enough to finish the update becomes a system requirement or something close to a requirement.

    It would be helpful if Microsoft could provide guidance on this question.

    1) Just how serious is a power interruption?

    2) How much UPS backup time is needed to provide for any updates they anticipate installing?

    thanks

    baumgrenze
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  8.    28 Aug 2015 #8
    Join Date : Jan 2014
    Carencro, LA 70520
    Posts : 8,464
    Mint 18.3

    Quote Originally Posted by baumgrenze View Post
    Thank you to everyone who replied to my question.

    I still do not understand the implications of a power failure during an automatic update of my Windows OS, whatever the number.

    It is good of Microsoft to warn us, 'do not turn off your machine,' but what are the consequences?

    If they are serious enough, it seems to me that a UPS with power enough to finish the update becomes a system requirement or something close to a requirement.

    It would be helpful if Microsoft could provide guidance on this question.

    1) Just how serious is a power interruption?

    2) How much UPS backup time is needed to provide for any updates they anticipate installing?

    thanks

    baumgrenze
    I see nobody has answered your question as to why a UPS is needed. If the update is currently writing the boot sector during a power outage or any essential file the system will not boot when the power returns causing you to reinstall the OS. It becomes very important on a firmware update as that may brick the device where you can no longer install any firmware.
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  9.    28 Aug 2015 #9
    Join Date : Jul 2015
    Posts : 114
    win 7 pro x64 (upgrade from XP/Pro OEM)
    Thread Starter

    Thanks You


    Thank you Beeman

    As someone with 3/4 of a century already consumed, I have to ask if you are related to the celebrated Dr. Edward Beeman who gave us Beeman's Pepsin Gum in 1880! My Grandpa was a fan.

    So, updating the firmware on any device is 'risky business' if there is a power loss during the process? Hmm.

    I have to remember that all this started when I began researching a UPS to cover my FTTN Gateway/modem and ATA VOIP phone device for 911 coverage during a power failure. Here one of the $60 products is probably more than adequate. Any comments?

    It is so easy to get distracted by other possibilities.

    That said, it is clearer to me that in addition to the 911 power issue we should probably have a UPS device to provide backup power for each of our two desktop PCs. Now I need to decide how big. Any advice? We tend to run all day and shut down at bedtime (rest for all the weary.)

    I see that for now Microsoft only recommends automatic updates for Windows 10. The classic 'tell me downloads are ready' and 'you have updates downloaded and ready to install' are still options. My worry about an auto-update starting just before a power failure is not quite as serious as I thought.

    Thanks

    baumgrenze

    Change how Windows installs or notifies you about updates - Windows Help


    "Microsoft offers an extension to Windows Update called Microsoft Update. This service allows you to get updates for other Microsoft products, as well as receive notices of new Microsoft software that you can download and install for free. Here's how to get updates and notices about new software:


    • Open Windows Update by clicking the Start button . In the search box, type Update, and then, in the list of results, click Windows Update.
    • If you've never checked for updates before, in the left pane, click Check for updates. Wait for Windows Update to finish checking for updates.
    • In the Windows Update dialog box, click Find out more under Get updates for other Microsoft products. Follow the steps on the screen to start using Microsoft Update.
    • In the left pane, click Change settings.
    • Under Microsoft Update, select the Give me updates for Microsoft products and check for new optional Microsoft software when I update Windows check box.
    • To get notifications of new Microsoft software, select the Show me detailed notifications when new Microsoft software is available check box.
    • Click OK. If you're prompted for an administrator password or confirmation, type the password or provide confirmation. .............."
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  10.    28 Aug 2015 #10
    Join Date : Jan 2014
    Carencro, LA 70520
    Posts : 8,464
    Mint 18.3

    Quote Originally Posted by baumgrenze View Post
    Thank you Beeman

    As someone with 3/4 of a century already consumed, I have to ask if you are related to the celebrated Dr. Edward Beeman who gave us Beeman's Pepsin Gum in 1880! My Grandpa was a fan.

    So, updating the firmware on any device is 'risky business' if there is a power loss during the process? Hmm.

    I have to remember that all this started when I began researching a UPS to cover my FTTN Gateway/modem and ATA VOIP phone device for 911 coverage during a power failure. Here one of the $60 products is probably more than adequate. Any comments?

    It is so easy to get distracted by other possibilities.

    That said, it is clearer to me that in addition to the 911 power issue we should probably have a UPS device to provide backup power for each of our two desktop PCs. Now I need to decide how big. Any advice? We tend to run all day and shut down at bedtime (rest for all the weary.)

    I see that for now Microsoft only recommends automatic updates for Windows 10. The classic 'tell me downloads are ready' and 'you have updates downloaded and ready to install' are still options. My worry about an auto-update starting just before a power failure is not quite as serious as I thought.

    Thanks

    baumgrenze

    Change how Windows installs or notifies you about updates - Windows Help


    "Microsoft offers an extension to Windows Update called Microsoft Update. This service allows you to get updates for other Microsoft products, as well as receive notices of new Microsoft software that you can download and install for free. Here's how to get updates and notices about new software:


    • Open Windows Update by clicking the Start button . In the search box, type Update, and then, in the list of results, click Windows Update.
    • If you've never checked for updates before, in the left pane, click Check for updates. Wait for Windows Update to finish checking for updates.
    • In the Windows Update dialog box, click Find out more under Get updates for other Microsoft products. Follow the steps on the screen to start using Microsoft Update.
    • In the left pane, click Change settings.
    • Under Microsoft Update, select the Give me updates for Microsoft products and check for new optional Microsoft software when I update Windows check box.
    • To get notifications of new Microsoft software, select the Show me detailed notifications when new Microsoft software is available check box.
    • Click OK. If you're prompted for an administrator password or confirmation, type the password or provide confirmation. .............."
    No I am not related to Beeman's Pepsin Gum as I am a Harper born is Louisiana. Most cheap UPS's will only give you time to do a shutdown on a desktop system at best 30 minutes It also needs to power the Modem, display and other things necessary for the PC to work. A good UPS will power more than one PC I have 3 PC's on mine with very large batteries 3+ hours up time.
      My ComputerSystem Spec

 


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