Version 1903 Broke My Computer

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  1. Posts : 59
    Windows 10
       #1

    Version 1903 Broke My Computer


    So I am one of those guys who would prefer NOT to be forced to download Windows updates, and I have good reason: I use my computer all the time, and keep stuff up on it all the time, so being force-fed updates and rebooted every two days only results in me losing all of my work and generally getting extremely annoyed. One of these force-feeds was the addition of build 1903 to my computer on November 24, 2019.

    On December 7, 2019, I had my first audio latency issue, where I went on a commentary call with someone on a Twitch broadcast. That evening, I eventually closed and reopened my browser, and the problem sorted itself out. I thought that was odd, and chalked it up to a random occurrence that happened within Windows, not knowing at the time (as I now do) that Windows left problems related to audio latency in build 1903.

    In the last few months, in spans as short as, at times, a mere two hours and generally less than a week, I have noticed audio latency.sneak up and make itself prevalent during a session. As with updating, I find this to be a massive annoyance because I now have NO CHOICE but to reboot my computer to fix it, and not on my own schedule; in other words, resetting the browser doesn't fix it, and even playing a video in VLC will cause stutter. I have identified, in Windows Update, that I was force-fed the February 2020 cumulative update, but no other updates. From what I understand, this update was supposed to FIX the issue. Supposedly, the May 2020 update (which was installed - again, despite attempts to prevent updates - on May 18, a week and a half ago) was also supposed to fix this (I also have the March and April updates, which Windows is again making sure keep my computer broken apparently forcing everything on to me). The problem has only become more frequent. To be clear, I'm having audio latency problems on a gaming computer while a laptop that I have across the room (heck, hooked up to a TV) generally has no problems playing video, no latency, nothing. I even tried putting in a registry entry on the PC to stop the interrupts causing this, per another guide on the same issue, but that registry entry did absolutely nothing and the thing that it was supposed to disable stays enabled. What is broken in my gaming PC?

    As tidbits, I have tried much of the things at 10 solutions to fix audio lagging in Windows 10 (step 5 is also never saving the 16-bit setting that is suggested, always reverting back to 24-bit). Further, the 1909 update is sitting there begging for me to take it, but naturally, I don't trust this and don't want to have to figure out all of my settings AGAIN, especially after trying to reset my Realtek drivers and having a nuisance with THAT. I know sooner or later it will be forced down my gullet as well, however. But I also want to fix this issue before trying to install new updates. Will build 1909 fix my issues? Should I update something else first? Or am I just screwed? I have in a couple of other cases gone to start commentary and noticed latency mid-call but not able to do anything about it, and it leads to poorer quality commentary on my part. I also want to start streaming, and naturally don't want to stream poor audio. I really just want to fix this.
      My Computer


  2. Posts : 42,984
    Win 10 Pro (22H2) (2nd PC is 22H2)
       #2

    So I am one of those guys who would prefer NOT to be forced to download Windows updates, and I have good reason: I use my computer all the time, and keep stuff up on it all the time, so being force-fed updates and rebooted every two days only results in me losing all of my work and generally getting extremely annoyed. One of these force-feeds was the addition of build 1903 to my computer on November 24, 2019.
    Quite understand. I've never had this happen.
    I have Pro and use updates set to Notify and feature updates deferred for 365 days.

    If you have Home, for a number of years there have been free 3rd party tools offering control of Windows Updates, often mentioned here. E.g.
    Sledgehammer (free): disables WU completely, allowing Defender updates. Includes WUmgr - which you then use to manually scan for and choose to hide or receive updates.

    Thern there's the one in Option 7:
    Enable or Disable Windows Update Automatic Updates in Windows 10

    Latency issues can be very hard to resolve.
    Presumably you've run Laencymon (free).

    There are a number of threads on stutter, latency - just search the forum for
    stutter
    Latencymon
    for examples. Might give you some ideas.

    1909 is an enablement package (1st one) rather than a full feature update replacing all system files and drivers.
      My Computers


  3. Posts : 59
    Windows 10
    Thread Starter
       #3

    So I have used LatencyMon, but only to confirm latency. What should I use it for in an effort to fix the issue?
      My Computer


  4. Posts : 42,984
    Win 10 Pro (22H2) (2nd PC is 22H2)
       #4

    Thank you for your reply.

    The report may give you a clue as to the driver involved, and the severity of the problem.
    You can then research similar reports.

    Some cases are resolved by using an OLDER version of a specific driver (you indicated this started after upgrading to 1903- each feature update, as I mentioned, delivers a new set of drivers, from the low level ones intrinsic to the O/S to others. These may or may not differ from those in the previous build.

    If your hardware is older or sensitive to these issues, you could then have problems.
      My Computers


  5. Posts : 59
    Windows 10
    Thread Starter
       #5

    It's a gaming computer bought in 2019. That means it has hardware from 2018, possibly 2017 in cases like the hard drive (1 TB was a thing back then, and it's not SSD). It does have a 1060 powering the graphics. I may need guidance on how to create the report and analyze it; as I noted previously, I've only used LatencyMon to actually confirm existing latency, not generate reports on what the issue is.

    And, just so I don't muck things up, I might need a guide on downgrading; upgrading would not be an issue if the faulty driver has a newer edition, but I can't seem to get System Restore working because BitDefender or some other firewall is literally preventing it from working despite me cutting off the antivirus, so assume that may not be an option unless we really dig there (restore points will be made, however, in case we can make it work).
      My Computer


  6. Posts : 42,984
    Win 10 Pro (22H2) (2nd PC is 22H2)
       #6

    Here's Resplendence's write-up:
    Resplendence Software - LatencyMon: real-time audio suitability checker

    Google gives these hopefully useful results:
    Version 1903 Broke My Computer-1.png

    You said this problem arose after upgrading to 1903- is that correct?
    Did you have an earlier build of Windows e.g. 1803, 1809 with which you had no such problems?

    Please specify the model of your laptop.
    Then try searching using e.g.
    <laptop model> latency
    <laptop model> stutter
    <laptop model> crackle

    to see if anyone has resolved this for your laptop.
    (That's a quick cheat!)

    Also try uninstalling Bitdefender, performing a clean boot (Google or see tutorial if unsure) and re-rerunning Latencymon.

    System restore:
    In what way is this failing?
    - creating a restore point?
    - restoring a restore point?
    - with what error message?
    - vss failure?

    Please note, however, it is very common to find restoring fails to complete, and many have simply given up on System Restore. That said, I sometimes have that happen, and after some months, I find it works again. Certainly was useful recently when I unaccountably found 'the user profile service wasn't able to log you in'.

    Windows is again making sure keep my computer broken apparently forcing everything on to me
    I assume you have Home, with limited controls for Windows Update.

    For several years there have been some free 3rd party tools you can use to take complete control of Windows update.
    For example, there's Sledgehammer - disables WU, enables Defender updates.
    It includes WUmgr which lets you manually scan for updates and choose to hide or apply them.

    And there's Option 7 here:
    Enable or Disable Windows Update Automatic Updates in Windows 10
    Last edited by dalchina; 03 Jun 2020 at 01:34.
      My Computers


  7. Posts : 59
    Windows 10
    Thread Starter
       #7

    The issue is not for my laptop, it's for my desktop. The laptop is fine, haven't rebooted it for two months (literally, it sits plugged in and has been playing Youtube videos of train drives and various Twitch streams to give me something to replace my lack of TV; that said, it shares a constant error 2000 in Twitch use on Chrome currently not hitting Firefox, so I think that's a Chrome issue from May 19 edition).

    I forget what the previous build was. I bought the computer in January 2019 and I think I did run quick updates on it, then after it said no further updates I tried to stop all updates by setting Metered. Obviously, that did wonders since they still force-feed things. So whatever builds were out from January 2019 is probably what I had. And no issues previously. Even ran a couple streams for a livestreaming class.

    Computer model is a Dell gaming computer, Inspiron 5680. 64-bit, 24 GB RAM (I thought it was 20, but it's 24), i5-8,400 CPU, something like 2.80 GHz. Not a huge Dell fan, just happened to be a good entry model for a gaming computer. I have recently had to stop SupportAssist from running its checks since I know something is wrong. OS build is 18362.836, installed Nov. 24 of last year, version 1903 Windows 10 Home.

    I just noticed Updates added another driver, for Realtek Semiconductor Corp. I think this is the one that came about from my attempts to uninstall and reinstall the Realtek driver. It installed May 24. No other updates since the 18th, and that was the cumulative update that fixed nothing. (I lose. Good day sir!) Your "quick cheats" don't seem to find the proper results on Google, and I added "1903" to one to try to narrow it down with no hits. So it's not a computer-specific fix apparently.

    Looked up Latency problems after upgrade to version 1803 this morning. that however was an 1803 issue. I doubt that will solve my 1903 issue.

    Looked up V1903 Causing DPC Latency Hits and he used build 18362.145 with no issues. Since my build is a later build, and he's not having issues, I highly doubt going to an earlier build will fix it, and the issue is likely to be found via driver scans in LatencyMon. I can run a check before a planned reboot, and then run an idle check for a few minutes after the computer stops its startup after that reboot. I wonder if that might be enough to find the culprit.

    BitDefender I have concluded is not the issue. It has nothing to do with the drivers, and still lets all Windows processes through. I am certain the problem is drivers, and hopefully LatencyMon can identify that. Also, uninstalling BitDefender would be a pain in the butt.
      My Computer


  8. Posts : 42,984
    Win 10 Pro (22H2) (2nd PC is 22H2)
       #8

    Thank you for your reply. I think I'd best leave this with you. Good luck.
      My Computers


  9. Posts : 59
    Windows 10
    Thread Starter
       #9

    dalchina said:
    Thank you for your reply. I think I'd best leave this with you. Good luck.
    I will perhaps post my scans and may seek further advice then.

    - - - Updated - - -

    In fact, here is a one-minute scan report. I have added a drivers screenshot. Are there any immediate thoughts as to a possible culprit before I get a reboot idle version later? Might run the idle reboot scan for 5 minutes. They are attached.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Version 1903 Broke My Computer-latencymon2.png  
    Version 1903 Broke My Computer Attached Files
      My Computer


  10. Posts : 42,984
    Win 10 Pro (22H2) (2nd PC is 22H2)
       #10

    Just as an indication of how hard resolving this can be, read thru this..
    High DPC latency causing audio stutters

    If with the problem PC you had no problems at one point, work logically through what changed to the point when you started to have this problem.

    Another approach is simplification. You can disable devices in Device Manager.
    You can clean install.
    You can stop drivers loading using Autoruns (free from MS).
    You can look at the various reports from LatencyMon.

    In one case, the user found a low level driver in Windows was responsible, so in moving from one build to another and back again by restoring a disk image, was eventually able to replace the driver in the later build. Remarkable effort.


    Analytical but daunting tool: Windows Performance Recorder/Analyser. Free from MS. Tutorial available - examples: mostly in other contexts: search tenforums for Windows Performance Recorder.
    Last edited by dalchina; 27 May 2020 at 12:22.
      My Computers


 

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