Not your usual copy & paste problem - please help if you can

ControlX · 10 Dec 2019

Hi all, new member looking for help on what has been a crazy, unsolvable problem for at least 4 years across several computers. Starting on Windows 8 now Windows 10 64 bit.

At the moment it happens on my work PC, an Intel i5 and my home PC an i7 but happened also on two previous computers. I'm letting you know this first as it could be that it is something that i am 'bringing with me'.

So, by around 4pm after a nearly a full days use, more often than not, copy and paste in Windows and all Office 365 apps stops working. This is either through right clicking, or ctrl c + ctrl v. Strangely, copy and paste works in non Microsoft apps, like Chrome etc. I think even stranger, drag and drop to copy or cut and paste text and pics still works in Windows and Office 365 apps.

Sometimes the issue is preceded by graphical glitches, where part of the address bar in a Windows may go black. other time it just happens.

Considering it's happened 3-5 days a week on four computers unique to me so far, it is obviously not a hardware issue. It may be something to do with an app or account I use, but I have nothing out of the ordinary. Itunes and Evernote have been common to all computers but not much else (apart from Office 365). I don't visit dodgy sites on either computer and am pretty savvy on what I click or allow to make changes on websites etc.

The issue is fixed with a restart. This is more pain than it sounds though - i'm essentially writing and editing documents all day, and tend to leave unanswered emails open ready to address etc. So a restart an hour before I go home is a real PITA.

Our work IT firm has been looking at it on and off for ages. They have no clue what is causing it and they tell me that they have escalated the issue all the way up through Microsoft support to no avail.

Btw, it doesn't happen everyday (but most) and appears more linked to the time the PC has been on rather than usage of RAM etc. This is anecdotal, but if I have to restart because of the problem late afternoon, but then leave my computer on over night for whatever reason, it normally occurs mid-morning the next day rather than late afternoon.

Tin foil hat time also - did I piss an IT admin off and his revenge was a little custom nasty for me years ago? Hence no scans ever pick anything up. I have mild feelings of this because it seems like such a unique issue, but over different hardware. If this is the case, hats off to the IT guy especially as copy & paste is something I use so often ;-0

Any help on this would be much appreciated. I am now officially desperate to get it fixed.

Thanks

PS, sorry for such a long first post, but thought it best to get everything in!

Berton · 10 Dec 2019

Just a question: is the Copy and Paste function problem when using the mouse or does it happen when using Select, Ctrl + C for Copy and Ctrl + V for Paste? Or maybe Copy and Paste on the Edit menu on the Toolbar?

RickC · 10 Dec 2019

It sounds like your PC is running out of Windows resources, specifically the desktop heap reserved by User Objects for things like windows, menus, cursors, icons, and menu keyboard shortcuts. (Note, by Windows resources I don't mean physical or virtual memory, nor Windows resources like GDI Objects that support graphics.)

Think of the User Objects (and GDI Objects) as buffers, with default limits set in the registry. Once you've exhausted the buffers then the only thing you can do is reboot to clear the buffers and start again. (Technically they are process handles but 'buffers' is often easier to understand.)

Fortunately it's very easy to amend the default buffer value to see if this is in fact the cause of menu keyboard shortcuts like cut/paste suddenly failing. (The reason non-MS apps aren't affected is that they don't use the same User Object resources in the same way as MS does.)

Try this as a test:

1. Open the Registry Editor using Run as administrator.

2. Navigate to the following entry where the default User Objects value is stored:

Code:

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\Windows\USERProcessHandleQuota

For Windows 10 Pro x64 the default DWORD value is 10000 (from a range of between 200 and 18,000):

Not your usual copy & paste problem - please help if you can-user_object_process_handles-default.png

3. Increase the value from 10000 to 14000, save the change and restart your PC so the registry can be re-read from scratch:

Not your usual copy & paste problem - please help if you can-user_object_process_handles-changed.png

Does this minor change extend the amount of time before cut/paste operations stop working or - better still - fix the issue completely. If so then you're done. If not, just change the value back to 10000.

If you want to read more about User Objects, have a look at this Microsoft documentation.

ControlX said:

Our work IT firm has been looking at it on and off for ages. They have no clue what is causing it and they tell me that they have escalated the issue all the way up through Microsoft support to no avail.

Sorry but this has been a recurring issue for years and is well-known to Microsoft support. Each iteration of Windows has raised the number of default process handles allocated but the problems remain for some people like yourself whose way of working coincides with exhausting the quota quicker than others. PS - Don't just change the value to the maximum 18000 allowed. Instead, raise the value in increments of 1000-2000 until the issue is mitigated for your style of working.

Note that Microsoft even has a free TechNet/Sysinternals utility called TestLimit to - for example - deliberately exhaust the process handle quota to see if it's the reason for - for example - CTRL+c/CTRL+v suddenly stopping working. I'm a bit loathe to recommend it 'cos you can hang your machine and have to reboot to regain control. You can read more about User objects, TestLimit and how to use it in this Microsoft article by Mark Russinovitch. Note though that it's an old article and there's an assumption that there have been few if any system resource issues since Windows Vista.

PS - I use Process Hacker (I've got it set as a replacement for Task Manager). One of its useful abilities is to show a column of User Object handles so I can keep an eye on them (or even count them to see if they are approaching the User Object quota limit):

Not your usual copy & paste problem - please help if you can-process-hacker.png

You used to be able to do the same in Windows 7's Task Manager but it looks like the number of available columns has been severely curtailed in Windows 10 (hence why I use Process Hacker).

Hope this helps...

pepanee · 10 Dec 2019

Also keep in mind, you can try this:

a) Open Windows Settings -> Update & Security -> Recovery
b) Press the Restart now button under Advanced startup
c) Press the Troubleshoot -> Advanced options -> Startup Settings -> Restart buttons.
d) Select: 6) Enable Safe Mode with Command Prompt
e) Once the Command Prompt is displayed, type:
sfc /scannow
and press the Enter key
f) This process will take some time
g) Once that process completes, press Control+Alt+Delete then press the Power button -> Restart

Gurn Blanston · 10 Dec 2019

@RickC

I'm interested in this but I'm afraid that your math is a little off. The default pic in the image below clearly shows the value at default is 10000 or 2710 hex:

Not your usual copy & paste problem - please help if you can-wrong.jpg

Which is it? 1000 or 10000?

RickC · 10 Dec 2019

@Gurn Blanston - You're quite right. My maths is indeed off.

I checked the MS docs again and - whilst there's a theoretical limit of 65,536 user handles per session - the advice is to use 18000 as the maximum per session. I've amended my post above to suggest an increase from 10000 to 14000.

Many thanks for pointing out my error.

ControlX · 12 Dec 2019

Thanks for such thorough advice everyone.

@Berton it happens with select, Ctrl + C (or X) and Ctrl + V, as well as select, right click copy/cut, paste. In all my years I've never used the edit menu to copy, but I will try next time the problem occurs if it does...
@RickC and Gurn - thank you for taking the time to look at this in such depth. I have this morning set the value to 14000. It sounds like a very good reason for my issue so fingers crossed! I don't have a full day at my desk today though, so not sure if I'll be able to report back yet.

@Pepanee - I tried the scan but it didn't turn anything up at all.

Will let you know if the problem happens again after the registry change and also confirm it as solved if not, should anyone else come across such an odd problem!

ControlX · 19 Dec 2019

Hi, just an update on my issue. had a real day of copy & pasting today and the problem occured. is it worth raining the number from 14,000 to say, 18,000? Is there anything negative that could happen by trying this?

RickC · 19 Dec 2019

ControlX said:

Hi, just an update on my issue. had a real day of copy & pasting today and the problem occured. is it worth raining the number from 14,000 to say, 18,000? Is there anything negative that could happen by trying this?

Two things:

1) One - No, there is no negative to increasing the decimal DWORD value from 14,000 to the suggested maximum of 18,000. (This will be well within the theoretical limit of 65,536.)

2) Did you notice any benefit from increasing the value from the default 10,000 to 14,000 (and re-booting)? Did this change increase the time range before you had to reboot to clear buffers?