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  1. Joined : Aug 2015
    I'm in the ghetto
    Posts : 705
    Windows 10 Pro x64
       07 Aug 2015 #1

    Is Windows Retail Version Upgrading to Win 10 OEM??


    I put this question to Microsoft this week by email:

    Good morning

    This complaint pertains to the upgrade options from a full retail version of Windows 8.1 to Windows 10.

    According to the EULA:

    “4. Transfer. The provisions of this section do not apply if you acquired the software as a consumer in Germany or in any of the countries listed on this site (aka.ms/transfer), in which case any transfer of the software to a third party, and the right to use it, must comply with applicable law.

    a. Software preinstalled on device. If you acquired the software preinstalled on a device (and also if you upgraded from software preinstalled on a device), you may transfer the license to use the software directly to another user, only with the licensed device. The transfer must include the software and, if provided with the device, an authentic Windows label including the product key. Before any permitted transfer, the other party must agree that this agreement applies to the transfer and use of the software.

    b. Stand-alone software. If you acquired the software as stand-alone software (and also if you upgraded from software you acquired as stand-alone software), you may transfer the software to another device that belongs to you. You may also transfer the software to a device owned by someone else if (i) you are the first licensed user of the software and (ii) the new user agrees to the terms of this agreement. You may use the backup copy we allow you to make or the media that the software came on to transfer the software. Every time you transfer the software to a new device, you must remove the software from the prior device. You may not transfer the software to share licenses between devices.”



    I have purchase stand-alone software of 8.1, which means that it can be transferred to any device as long as it removed from the original device first.

    According to the Windows 10 specifications page on the Microsoft website:

    “Upgrade Editions

    We’ll keep you on like-to-like editions of Windows.”




    It appears, from other areas of your website and from the advice given by your CSRs, that the upgrade is not like for like. It appears that the upgrade from my retail version of Windows 8.1 is to an OEM version of Windows 10.

    This is definitely not like-for-like.

    It also contradicts 4b of the EULA. (The EULA does not specify Windows 10, 8, 7, Vista etc) and therefore would cover all your products.

    I would not have purchased a retail version of Windows 8.1 Pro in February 2015 if I knew that Microsoft would be ignoring the EULA and ‘like-for-like’ statements. The software on a brand new self-build system and as such, I could have purchased an OEM version of 8.1 instead at a lower price.

    I do not want to pay the full retail price for Windows 10 when I upgrade the motherboard and processor in 18 months time. Previous Microsoft upgrade packs have been sold at a reduced price and I do not understand why this should be any different.



    Essentially:

    8.1 OEM upgrades to Win10 OEM
    And
    8.1 Retail upgrades to Win10 OEM


    I do not wish to pay the full price in 18 months as that totally defeats the purpose of paying extra for the retail version in the first place.


    I respectfully request that an upgrade version of Win10 be available to me at a reduced price in 18 months time. This would be consistent with the marketing of previous versions of Windows and their upgrades.


    I also respectfully suggest that Microsoft update their website and any other relevant literature so that all customers are aware that a retail version becomes an oem version upon upgrade. It is my assertion that the EULA and Microsoft sales literature are in conflict, that customers are being misled and that information is not transparent.


    Please advise.



    Yours sincerely,
    XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX



    E&OE

    To which I got the following reply:

    Hello Mr. XXXXXX,

    This is XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX with Microsoft Global Escalation Services contacting you in response to your communication with our Corporate Office. Your case ID XXXXXXXXXX has been escalated to me and I would like to get the issue resolved at the earliest.

    Please let me know a suitable date and time, and your contact number so that we can work on the issue further.
    My contact information is mentioned below.

    Looking forward to your reply.

    Regards,

    XXXXXXXXXXXX

    Sr. Support Escalation Engineer

    Global Escalation Services

    Technical and UR T3

    Office: +1 (425) XXX-XXXX Ext - XXXXXXX

    Working Hours: Mon - Fri 11:00 AM - 08:00 PM PDT

    XXXXXX@microsoft.com

    I have advised them of when to call and expect to have a chat with them next week. I'll come back here to let you know the eventual outcome just in case anyone has similar concerns. It may take a couple of months to get a final [hopefully positive] resolution. I won't however, out of respect for the due process, be giving a blow-by-blow account.

    I realise I'm probably an old fool who has different values when compared to the modern corporate world but hey, if you don't ask, you don't get

    Anyhow, that's it for now...I'll be back...

    Update
    Microsoft have agreed to give me a full second Win10 standalone license in addition to the Win10 license I already have via the promotional free upgrade. Having two fully independent Win10 licenses for no extra cost was the agreed resolution.

    The resolution:
    •I can install the Win8.1 Retail license and activate Win10 using the free promotional upgrade. The license will become tied to the device from 29 July 2016. I would still have the right to uninstall Win10 from that device so that I could transfer 8.1 to another device. I would no longer be able to upgrade the Win8.1 license on the new device to Win10 using the free promotional offer.
    •I would concurrently be able to clean install Win10 pro using the standalone product key received last night, on a device I choose and maintain full right of transfer for this license.
    •I can have Win10 Pro installed on two different devices even though I only paid for one. I have two independent licenses.

    They also added:
    •The points I raised about the EULA and internal policy also form part of the resolution. This has now been passed onto another department within Microsoft and they stated the wording within the EULA may soon be changed after completion of the investigation by the relevant licensing and legal teams.
    Last edited by WhyMe; 15 Aug 2015 at 12:01. Reason: Added resolution
      My System SpecsSystem Spec


  2. Joined : Aug 2015
    Posts : 393
    10 pro 64 clean install
       07 Aug 2015 #2

    I can't see how they could lock up the retail version if you were to upgrade to 10 pro OEM . I know for testing purposes what I have done with my retail copies of xp and vista ( yeah I know Vista lol ) I did use them to upgrade to 7 and 8 , got activated with no problems . Then later on decided I no longer want windows 8 and just go back to the retail version of Vista and I had no problem with the activation. But lets say I couldn't get activated ? I would of call MS and tell them my copy is an retail version were by it can be transfer to where ever . I can't see how they'd argue the facts but I'm glad you brought this up . I'm curious to know the outcome
      My System SpecsSystem Spec


  3. Joined : May 2015
    Posts : 1,373
    Win 10 14393.51
       07 Aug 2015 #3

    What makes you think that you have received an OEM license of Win 10?

    What do you get when you run slmgr /dli from a command window (with admin privileges)?

    I expect that you could install Win 10 on new hardware by erasing it from the old system, installing and activating 8.1, and upgrading to 10. (I don't know that from personal experience. I know of no one who has done that yet, since 29 July.)

    What happens in a year's time, I have not heard. Maybe a low-cost retail upgrade?
      My System SpecsSystem Spec


  4. Joined : Apr 2014
    Space coast of Florida
    Posts : 4,329
    Windows 10 Pro X64 14393.576
       07 Aug 2015 #4

    Interesting, my Win 10 laptop shows this for slmgr /dli

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	sli.jpg 
Views:	1150 
Size:	13.4 KB 
ID:	29358

    This is an Insider system still, upgraded from 8.1 Pro OEM I believe.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec


  5. Joined : Aug 2015
    Posts : 393
    10 pro 64 clean install
       07 Aug 2015 #5

    Yep, I have the same as Ztrucker . So it might be WhyMe your upgrading retail to retail
      My System SpecsSystem Spec


  6. Joined : Aug 2015
    I'm in the ghetto
    Posts : 705
    Windows 10 Pro x64
       07 Aug 2015 #6

    bobkn said: View Post
    What makes you think that you have received an OEM license of Win 10?
    Because I have had several conversations with a small number of MS employees. They all clearly stated that if I were to change the motherboard after July 29th 2016 I would have to buy a new retail version of win 10 as my upgraded Win8 Retail license would no longer be valid. They said this is due to the fact that the upgraded license is tied to a device. Their comments have led to believe that my retail version of Win8 becomes an oem version of win10 in July 2016 as they said I can change my motherboard and cpu up 'til then, but definitely not after. Win10 becomes linked to my device [hardware] from that date.

    bobkn said: View Post
    What do you get when you run slmgr /dli from a command window (with admin privileges)?
    Retail Channel

    bobkn said: View Post
    What happens in a year's time, I have not heard. Maybe a low-cost retail upgrade?
    The MS people I have spoken to (up to now) have advised me they are not aware of any future low-cost retail upgrade for customers who have upgraded to Win10 from a retail version of Win7 or Win8. They are adamant I will have to purchase a totally new license when I upgrade my motherboard and cpu in spring 2017.

    This is why I have raised my concerns with their Corporate offices. I definitely do not want to lose out. Yes the price difference between retail and oem versions is minimal, but it is the principal...
      My System SpecsSystem Spec


  7. Joined : Aug 2015
    I'm in the ghetto
    Posts : 705
    Windows 10 Pro x64
       07 Aug 2015 #7

    Ztruker said: View Post
    Interesting, my Win 10 laptop shows this for slmgr /dli

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	sli.jpg 
Views:	1150 
Size:	13.4 KB 
ID:	29358

    This is an Insider system still, upgraded from 8.1 Pro OEM I believe.
    sn00ker said: View Post
    Yep, I have the same as Ztrucker . So it might be WhyMe your upgrading retail to retail
    Yes. I've got the same as both of you two.
    Doesn't change what MS staff have advised as to what happens to the license come July 29 2016. Pretty much why I'm seeking the official position from MS HQ in writing!!!
      My System SpecsSystem Spec


  8. Joined : Aug 2015
    Posts : 393
    10 pro 64 clean install
       07 Aug 2015 #8

    WhyMe said: View Post
    Yes. I've got the same as both of you two.
    Doesn't change what MS staff have advised as to what happens to the license come July 29 2016. Pretty much why I'm seeking the official position from MS HQ in writing!!!
    That's a good point but to be honest If by chance that were to happened I bet you would still be able to re- use your 8 Retail again, time will tell even if it's true that it will lock up your 8 afterwards, I still say you will be able re use it
      My System SpecsSystem Spec


  9. Joined : Aug 2015
    Upstate NY, USA
    Posts : 192
    Windows 10 Home 64 bit
       07 Aug 2015 #9

    I wouldn't rely on what you see by running slimgr. I ran it and it says I have the core edition, which is correct. Then it says RETAIL Channel and I upgraded from an OEM version of 8.1. Another utility reported Win 10 as being OEM.

    I did read that after a certain date, your previous license is "consumed" and can no longer be used.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec


  10. Joined : Jul 2015
    Posts : 11
    Windows 10 Pro
       08 Aug 2015 #10

    That's the catch to getting this "Free" upgrade. You're essentially trading a Retail copy of Windows 7/8 that can be transferred from devices to device to an OEM copy of Windows 10 that is tied to the device's motherboard.

    This essentially mean that if you build a new PC, you're expected to buy Windows 10 again. If your motherboard breaks and you don't replace it with an identical one, then you are also expected to buy Windows 10 again.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec


 
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