is it possibe to avoid losing programs after a reset on windows 10?

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  1. Posts : 1,868
    W10 pro x64 20H2 Build 19042.610
       #11

    I would say that the biggest issue with a new laptop is that it almost certainly comes full to the brim with junk preinstalled, all vying to be the first to get on-line and update and do there thing each time you boot up.

    I would seriously consider making an initial disk image (if you really really want to that is), and then just totally formatting the HDD to wipe it 100% clean by doing a clean install of W10.

    By all means have a play around with the laptop as delivered but experience says you will gain many times over with a fresh start.
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  2. Posts : 7
    windows 10
    Thread Starter
       #12

    well i have it here in front of me..... weee!

    i agree about the bloatware... i normally just use youruninstaller to take it back to empty... although i'm tempted to put win7 x64 on it and then make an image.

    but am i'm right in thinking you have to make regular images or you will lose recent data?

    1. what is the size of an image in mb (roughly)

    2.do they have to be stored on a seperate hdd?

    3. can anyone point me at the MR free.... all i can find is paid and trial versions
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  3. Try3's Avatar
    Posts : 7,452
    Windows 10 Home x64 Version 20H2 Build 19042.928
       #13

    "but am i'm right in thinking you have to make regular images or you will lose recent data"

    It is more common to regard system images as being a backup of the OS with its applications & settings and to make separate backups for your data i.e. for your own files.

    "what is the size of an image in mb (roughly)"

    As a rough guide for planning purposes, assume that the image might be as large as the space the OS uses on your disk [total space used minus the total size of your own files]. In general, the system image making software is likely to create images that are half that size. Some software gives you the ability to choose what level of compression to use. My system images [I use Acronis True Image] are half the size of the space used on disk. I once tried a higher level of compression but to achieve only 10% smaller image it took at least twice as long to make so I have not bothered doing so since that one experiment.

    "do they have to be stored on a separate hdd?"

    Yes. If they are left on your computer they will be lost if your disk is defective but this is one of the times when you will want to restore your image onto a replacement disk.

    "can anyone point me at the MR free"

    Yes, I did so in my first post - "Many people in this forum make images using Macrium Reflect [Free edition] and there are tutorials on its use [tutorial section]." Use the blue button right near the top of the webpage.

    Denis
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  4. Posts : 1,212
    Windows 10 Pro
       #14

    People often have a simplistic understanding of application installations. Applications being completely self contained with all code in 1 application folder and all registry entries in it's own key. If that were the case then a system reset that preserved applications would probably be realistic and achievable.

    But things aren't like that in the real world. An application often has code installed in multiple locations other than the application folder, some being shared with other unrelated applications. Run time systems such as .NET or others may be installed or updated. Services that run at all times may be installed. Device drivers that interact with the OS at a very low level may be installed. This is typical for security software. There may be registry entries in many locations, including system locations. And there is more. Comprehensive details are almost never published.

    If a system reset were to attempt to maintain any or even part of this you could end up in a situation where the reset did not solve the problem that prompted it. It could in fact make the situation worse. Even an expert user would be unable to reliably predict the results of a reset.

    With the present implementation a reset is a rather drastic step, but if there are no hardware issues the computer should be restored to the original working order.

    If you would rather keep installed applications then doing periodic images is the only way.
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  5. Posts : 38,420
    windows 10 professional version 1607 build 14393.969 64 bit
       #15

    There are end users that setup their computers similar to your comments in the OP.
    They install the windows operating system on a SSD drive.
    Files are installed on a large HD.
    The most commonly used applications are installed on the SSD drive.
    The less commonly used applications or the applications that are potentially hard to recover are installed on the HD.
    Using this method the SSD drive can be clean installed whenever there is malwareware, ransomware, boot problems, operating system and registry corruption.
      My Computer


  6. Posts : 1,868
    W10 pro x64 20H2 Build 19042.610
       #16

    fu530 said:
    well i have it here in front of me..... weee!

    i agree about the bloatware... i normally just use youruninstaller to take it back to empty... although i'm tempted to put win7 x64 on it and then make an image.

    but am i'm right in thinking you have to make regular images or you will lose recent data?

    1. what is the size of an image in mb (roughly)

    2.do they have to be stored on a seperate hdd?

    3. can anyone point me at the MR free.... all i can find is paid and trial versions
    1/ The image size depends on how big your final set up is. W10 alone occupies (from memory) around 12Gb on disk but that figure will grow with updates and will certainly grow as you add your own programs and files. AN image of that is compressed and would be perhaps 7 or 8Gb

    2/ No, you can store image backups on a separate partition on your laptops drive. This works very well as long as you remember that the backup is only viable as long as the PC works. If it gets stolen or burned down then the backup is gone. You can move backups to another portable drive for archiving.

    3/Macrium is available here:
    https://www.macrium.com/reflectfree

    There are other alternatives as well. I currently favour AOMEI:
    https://www.aomeitech.com/ab/standard.html

    If you clean installed W10 you have the option to easily create your own partitions on the drive as I have done here.

    A full backup of my C partition which contains W10 and all my programs and data/files comes in at around 16Gb

    is it possibe to avoid losing programs after a reset on windows 10?-w10_1.png

    And my backups:

    is it possibe to avoid losing programs after a reset on windows 10?-w10_2.png

    And what a backup file looks like. The full disk image is the first in the set, then I add daily incremental or differential which are much smaller and only reflect the day to day changes. After a week I start a new set:

    is it possibe to avoid losing programs after a reset on windows 10?-w10_3.png
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  7. Ztruker's Avatar
    Posts : 13,512
    Windows 10 Pro X64 20H4 19042.746
       #17

    Mooly, I think it's a bad idea to advise someone to store their backups on a partition on the same hard drive they are backing up. If the drive goes bad they lose the backup as well. For what an external hard drive costs (1TB $60 to $70) it's not worth the risk.

    If it's a Desktop system and a 2nd hard drive can be installed then I agree that is okay, that's how I do my backups. I still do a separate backup every few months to an external hard drive just in case something goes wrong with my internal drives.
      My Computers

  8. lehnerus2000's Avatar
    Posts : 1,809
    W7 Ultimate SP1 (64 bit), LM 19.2 MATE (64 bit), W10 Home 1703 (64 bit), W10 Pro 1703 (64 bit) VM
       #18

    fu530 said:
    Eddit to add: also i guess you are going to lose any data you create after making the disc image? how often would you reccomend to make an image?
    In W10, at the very least, you should make an Image before:
    • Checking for Updates/Upgrades
    • Installing drivers
      My Computer


  9. Posts : 7
    windows 10
    Thread Starter
       #19

    zbook said:
    There are end users that setup their computers similar to your comments in the OP.
    They install the windows operating system on a SSD drive.
    Files are installed on a large HD.
    The most commonly used applications are installed on the SSD drive.
    The less commonly used applications or the applications that are potentially hard to recover are installed on the HD.
    Using this method the SSD drive can be clean installed whenever there is malwareware, ransomware, boot problems, operating system and registry corruption.

    hi thanks for this reply, could you expand more on how to do this.... i'm on a laptop so adding another drive is not possible. i know how to partition drive.... will this work?

    my issue with making images are that i do not have an external hdd.

    also i would lose data if something went wrong and i havn't made a backup

    can anyone tell meif i partition the drive i can i reinstall on on the partition or do i does it reinstall onthe whole hdd,

    if i can... could i not just create 2 drives and install the programmes on 2nd drive (d)

    thank for the help

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  10. Posts : 38,420
    windows 10 professional version 1607 build 14393.969 64 bit
       #20

    See Ztrucker's comments in post #17.
    If the notebook only comes with one drive then consider:
    a) backup to an external HD (A 4 TB drive on sale is approximately $100) so a 1 TB drive should be much less expensive.
    b) backup to the cloud (many websites off some free space: one drive, drop box, google drive)

    Make a backup image using free imaging/cloning software:
    Acronis, Aoemi, EaseUS, Macrium, Paragon, etc.
    Macrium is widely used in Ten Forums:
    Macrium Software | Your Image is Everything
    Backup and Restore with Macrium Reflect | Windows 10 Tutorials
      My Computer


 
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