Win10 upgrade and a retail purchase of Win10 Pro- not the same.

hapiper said:

How do you do a clean install without a dvd with the full version of the OS on it?

http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/softw...load/windows10
https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/1...n-install.html

John Pombrio said:

Good to know! But you may not know why the install worked. MS started requiring the use of using the BIOS to store the Win8 product key on the motherboard back in 2012. So when your friend's "clean install" was done, it was not on a new computer but one that already have a valid Win8.1 product key embedded in the mobo. That product key was the reason why the computer was able to register. I am not sure if registered means activated tho. Could you check with him and see if it says that it is activated?

John, I really don't mean to offend you. I really really don't. But will you please stop talking about this? virtually everything you have said, in such a matter of fact way, is completely and totally wrong, and you are just confusing people.

1) Windows 10 does not store any license or key information in your MS Account and activation has nothing to do with a MS Account.

2) Microsoft does not require all Windows 8 keys to be stored in the BIOS, nor does installing Windows 8 on a computer store a key in the bios. Only large OEM's are required to install keys in the bios, small - medium OEM's, retail copies, and upgrades by end users do not store anything in the BIOS

3) Windows 10 upgrades have very little to do with anything stored in the BIOS for activation. Windows 10 reads the key of the activated OS from the OS itself, and doesn't look in the BIOS. This is why you have to perform an upgrade from an already installed OS to get the free upgrade, even on Windows 8 computers that have a SLIC table entry. If Windows 10 read from the bios, there would be no need whatsoever to do an upgrade install.

4) Windows 10 is *NOT* a patch to windows 8. It's a complete new install. The "upgrade" is required for licensing purposes, and upgrades also try to migrate settings from the old OS to the new. You can completely install Windows 10 clean after the licensing upgrade.

So please, stop confusing people by telling them random things that just aren't true.

jimbo45 said:

The product code is not identical to the "Key" so how the info is held in the Ms servers I have no idea.

Actually, yes. They are. The Product Key is an encoded version of the Product ID. This is why everyones product key in Windows 10 (at least those that upgraded) is identical. You will also notice that OEM copies of Windows 7 where a generic key is used along with Vendor key in SLIC also have identical product keys. However, if you installed Windows 7 with a unique key, it gets a different product ID.

You can read about the algorithm used here:

http://www.licenturion.com/xp/fully-licensed-wpa.txt

Mystere said:

Actually, yes. They are. The Product Key is an encoded version of the Product ID. This is why everyones product key in Windows 10 (at least those that upgraded) is identical. You will also notice that OEM copies of Windows 8 where the key is in SLIC also have identical product keys. However, if you installed Windows 8 with a unique key, it gets a different product ID.

You can read about the algorithm used here:

http://www.licenturion.com/xp/fully-licensed-wpa.txt

OEM embedded Windows 8.x keys are unique to that PC, they do not use common keys like in Windows 7. Windows 7 uses SLIC table that does not actually contain a key. For Windows 8 there is an actual key stored in the BIOS.

Mystere said:

Sorry, I mean Windows 7, not 8. Windows 7 comes with a COA sticker with a different key than the key that's in the firmware, this COA key is unique, but the firmware key is not. The point remains the same, however.

Ok. I got you now. There is no key in the firmware for Windows 7 by the way. There is an OEM marker in the BIOS SLIC table but no actual key is stored there. The key is entered by the install media. You are correct though, each OEM uses a common OEM key for that version of Windows 7 they've installed at the factory. The Windows 7 OEM factory key is only ever stored in the Windows registry. And it will only work with the custom OEM install media. That's why the code on the COA sticker is different. That key will work with standard install media. The OEM key won't, its blocked from online activation.

Mystere said:

I updated the post, which should probably be more accurate.

Looks OK to me. There is so much info Microsoft won't say about activation (for good reasons) makes it hard to keep track of what's happening in the background. They keep changing the rules too. Windows 7 used OA2.1, Windows 8/8.1 used OA3.0, Windows 10 ? OA3.1 maybe? I haven't seen any info on that yet.

The nice thing about OA 3.0 with windows 8.x is any official Microsoft install media will read and use OEM embedded keys. My MSDN ISO's will and so will media from the media creation tool. and Windows 8.1 install media will use Windows 8.0 keys. No having to install 8.0 and upgrade to 8.1, or installing with generic keys etc. With Windows 7 to do an OEM-SLP install you have to have custom OEM install media. Your backup is the code on the COA sticker to be used with regular install media. Even then you have to do a phone activation. If you do a clean install of Windows 10 on a PC that had a factory OEM install of Windows 7, there is no OEM key to retrieve. Its not there. That's likely why you have to do an upgrade before you can clean install. The OEM marker in the BIOS doesn't tell you what version of windows 7 was installed at the factory, only that windows 7 OEM installs are authorized.