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  1.    09 Aug 2015 #131
    Join Date : Aug 2015
    I'm in the ghetto
    Posts : 705
    Windows 10 Pro x64

    Quote Originally Posted by alphanumeric View Post
    Your not transferring the Windows 10 License, your transferring the windows 7/8 license, then doing a second upgrade. Not the same thing. The second upgrade is new license on new hardware. A second license your not entitled too. IMHO
    Just popped by to give my two cents

    This is how the contract between the customer and Microsoft works:
    • If you start off with an OEM license and upgrade to Win10, then your license remains permanently tied to the original device onto which it was installed. The subsequent Win10 license may also be directly transferred to another user, but only together with the original licensed device.
    • If you start off with a Retail license and upgrade to Win10, then your license may be transferred to a new device owned by you as many times as you like, as long as it is not running on more than one device at any given time. The subsequent Win10 license may also be transferred to another user, but only if (a) you are the first licensed owner, (b) the new owner agrees to the EULA and (c) you have removed the licensed software from your device prior to transfer.
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  2.    09 Aug 2015 #132
    Join Date : Jul 2015
    Posts : 9,136
    Windows 10 Pro

    My post #108 was explaining what Microsoft will physically allow someone to do. If the user wipes the OS off of Computer #1 and installs Linux, and then installs Windows 7 on Computer #2 it is a transfer - and legal to do so long as the license is not an OEM license. The upgrade on Computer #2 to Windows 10 would also be legal.

    If the user leaves the Windows OS on Computer #1 (whether it be the Windows 7 or the WIndows 10), and installs Windows 7 on Computer #2 in addition to Computer #1, it is illegal (unless it is a volume license pack, such as my 3-pack Family license). Upgrading Computer #2 to Windows 10 would also be illegal (unless it is a volume license pack, such as my 3-pack Family license). But Microsoft will still allow it to happen, just have they allowed it to happen for years.

    Microsoft knows they would have a very difficult time blocking Retail license activations based on repeated uses because the Retail license allows for legal repeated uses - so long as the previous installation is uninstalled first - and they have relied upon the honor system for that for years and continue to do so.. Therefore, except in extreme cases, they take no actions against repeated uses of Retail licenses. However, with the hardware ID verification process (not key verification) they can prevent clones of installed operating systems from staying activated when the clone disk is moved to a different computer.
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  3.    09 Aug 2015 #133
    Join Date : Dec 2013
    Sydney, Nova Scotia, Canada
    Posts : 10,182
    Windows 10 IoT

    Quote Originally Posted by WhyMe View Post
    Just popped by to give my two cents

    This is how the contract between the customer and Microsoft works:
    • If you start off with an OEM license and upgrade to Win10, then your license remains permanently tied to the original device onto which it was installed. The subsequent Win10 license may also be directly transferred to another user, but only together with the original licensed device.
    • If you start off with a Retail license and upgrade to Win10, then your license may be transferred to a new device owned by you as many times as you like, as long as it is not running on more than one device at any given time. The subsequent Win10 license may also be transferred to another user, but only if (a) you are the first licensed owner, (b) the new owner agrees to the EULA and (c) you have removed the licensed software from your device prior to transfer.
    I agree with what you stated. My bone of contention is, why do a second upgrade install? Why not just actually transfer only Windows 10? Move the hard drive to the new PC or reinstall (clean install ) Windows 10 on the new hardware. To me, doing the second upgrade is just that, a second upgrade, not a true transfer. Do it my way and see if Microsoft will actually let you do it? If they do, the answer is, yes the free upgrade is transferable. If no? Then you make up your mind.
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  4.    09 Aug 2015 #134
    Join Date : Dec 2013
    Sydney, Nova Scotia, Canada
    Posts : 10,182
    Windows 10 IoT

    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLCDR View Post
    My post #108 was explaining what Microsoft will physically allow someone to do. If the user wipes the OS off of Computer #1 and installs Linux, and then installs Windows 7 on Computer #2 it is a transfer - and legal to do so long as the license is not an OEM license. The upgrade on Computer #2 to Windows 10 would also be legal.

    If the user leaves the Windows OS on Computer #1 (whether it be the Windows 7 or the WIndows 10), and installs Windows 7 on Computer #2 in addition to Computer #1, it is illegal (unless it is a volume license pack, such as my 3-pack Family license). Upgrading Computer #2 to Windows 10 would also be illegal (unless it is a volume license pack, such as my 3-pack Family license). But Microsoft will still allow it to happen, just have they allowed it to happen for years.

    Microsoft knows they would have a very difficult time blocking Retail license activations based on repeated uses because the Retail license allows for legal repeated uses - so long as the previous installation is uninstalled first - and they have relied upon the honor system for that for years and continue to do so.. Therefore, except in extreme cases, they take no actions against repeated uses of Retail licenses. However, with the hardware ID verification process (not key verification) they can prevent clones of installed operating systems from staying activated when the clone disk is moved to a different computer.
    Thank you for clarifying that. To me it was not obvious. Especially after the loop hole remark earlier in the thread. "Now, with the generic key and hardware ID scheme, Microsoft has created a loophole that will allow users to have multiple illegal Windows 10 installations with permanent activations stored on their servers." your other post looked like the proof of concept for that remark. That's what got me going on the multiple illegal install posts.
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  5.    09 Aug 2015 #135
    Join Date : Aug 2015
    I'm in the ghetto
    Posts : 705
    Windows 10 Pro x64

    Quote Originally Posted by alphanumeric View Post
    Thank you for clarifying that. To me it was not obvious. Especially after the loop hole remark earlier in the tread. "Now, with the generic key and hardware ID scheme, Microsoft has created a loophole that will allow users to have multiple illegal Windows 10 installations with permanent activations stored on their servers." your other post looked like the proof of concept for that remark. That's what got me going on the multiple illegal install posts.
    Ditto this. And it answers the point you asked me too!! I really hope the new hardware ID scheme does help to reduce the unlawful use of Win10 as it just makes the whole activation process more and more arduous for those customers who do respect and honor the license. A real PITA! So many customers now unable to successfully activate their upgrades or clean installs for Win10 is such a shame...
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  6.    09 Aug 2015 #136
    Join Date : Dec 2013
    Sydney, Nova Scotia, Canada
    Posts : 10,182
    Windows 10 IoT

    I'm calling it a night, I've had enough for now. It will be tomorrow some time before I'm back online again to answer any more posts. Take care.
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  7.    09 Aug 2015 #137
    Join Date : Sep 2014
    Nashville, TN
    Posts : 3,142
    Windows 10 Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by alphanumeric View Post
    I agree with what you stated. My bone of contention is, why do a second upgrade install?
    Because the upgrade install is the only way that the free Upgrade activation works. The way Microsoft designed it was that an upgrade installation is required to associate the hardware with the previous OS's activation status. This allows the OS to be reinstalled on the same hardware as often as you want without having to re-enter a key.

    This is why using the generic key to install results in a Blocked key error, even if you are installing clean on a machine you have already upgraded. The act of entering a key causes windows to only associate the key with the hardware, not the upgrade status of the previous OS. You must perform an upgrade to make this association.

    There has to be some way to validate that the OS is legitimately licensed, and the only way to do that by upgrading a legitimate Windows 7/8.x on the new hardware. (this is for upgrades only, obviously new retail copies will have their own key).

    Please stop confusing the installation process with the licensing process, they are two different things.

    TO make this clearer:

    When performing an upgrade install this is what's sent to MS
    * OLD OS KEY
    * New (generic) OS KEY
    * Hardware Hash

    When entering a key this is what's sent:
    * New (non-generic) OS Key
    * hardware hash

    When you skip the key, Windows sends only the hardware hash and Generic key, and looks to see if this hardware has previously been activated, so if it has, it goes ahead and re-activates.

    So, when you install clean on a new PC, there is no way to get the OLD OS KEY sent to the activation servers, because your old OS no longer exists on the machine. All you have is the generic key, and there is no way to map it back to your original OS>
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  8.    09 Aug 2015 #138
    Join Date : Aug 2015
    I'm in the ghetto
    Posts : 705
    Windows 10 Pro x64

    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLCDR View Post
    Microsoft knows they would have a very difficult time blocking Retail license activations based on repeated uses because the Retail license allows for legal repeated uses - so long as the previous installation is uninstalled first - and they have relied upon the honor system for that for years and continue to do so.. Therefore, except in extreme cases, they take no actions against repeated uses of Retail licenses. However, with the hardware ID verification process (not key verification) they can prevent clones of installed operating systems from staying activated when the clone disk is moved to a different computer.
    I'd personally like to see some sort of checksum value added to Retail Win10 product key that subsequently attaches itself to the hardware id held on the Microsoft servers. Maybe that would help with the verification process and prevent the misuse of retail licenses. I'm not a programmer though and would not know if that is possible. And even if it is, it may not be logistically doable anyhow.
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  9.    09 Aug 2015 #139
    Join Date : Aug 2015
    I'm in the ghetto
    Posts : 705
    Windows 10 Pro x64

    Quote Originally Posted by alphanumeric View Post
    I'm calling it a night, I've had enough for now.
    Lightweight
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  10.    09 Aug 2015 #140
    Join Date : Sep 2014
    Nashville, TN
    Posts : 3,142
    Windows 10 Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by WhyMe View Post
    I'd personally like to see some sort of checksum value added to Retail Win10 product key that subsequently attaches itself to the hardware id held on the Microsoft servers. Maybe that would help with the verification process and prevent the misuse of retail licenses. I'm not a programmer though and would not know if that is possible. And even if it is, it may not be logistically doable anyhow.
    There already is. When you enter a new retail windows 10 key, and activate, the hardware hash is sent to Microsoft's servers, and you can then re-activate your new full retail copy without having to re-enter it on subsequent reinstalls.
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