1.    01 May 2017 #1
    Join Date : Aug 2015
    Posts : 12
    Windows 10 Home Premium 64 bit

    Windows audio/ interface issue


    I use my pc as a DAW Studio. I have a Universal Audio Apollo Twin USB audio interface. It works very well with all things audio on my pc - until Friday. I installed Sonarworks room calibration software to finish flattening my room acoustics out. This explanation is lengthy and complicated - be forewarned...

    I believe (via Matt from Universal Audio) Sonarworks gets it's audio from the Windows audio WDM Drivers, and not the drivers from my interface which uses ASIO drivers (see pic 1). In the software, it asks for an input source the calibration mic is plugged into. The only option is the line level from the Twin USB (see 1st pic). The window showing the signal level shows no signal - it's not getting there. Windows audio does not show the microphone inputs, only 'line level' from the Twin USB (see pic 2). In making the changes to Windows audio Matt lays out below, the bit rate can't be changed in Windows audio recording window (see pic 3). In the recording window, it says 'no jack information available'. Further, I see no way to select the default microphone on the mobo...

    The following is my conversation with Matt, where he gives me info on making changes to Windows audio playback and recording windows, and my response to the attempt to do so...

    Me: I've had a Twin USB working very well with Win 10, Sonar Platinum, and Studio One 3 for a couple years on a i7 4790k with a ASRock Z97 Pro4 and 16 GB RAM. I picked up Sonarwork and their mic for speaker calibration. I went in to set the audio input for it, and found that only the Line was an option from the Twin USB. I used my Slate VMS preamp to change the XLR mic to 1/4" and plugged into channel one and set it to line. I get signal in both DAWs and 5 different standalone software titles. But, even set to line (which is what Sonarworks sees, no signal is present. See pics attached, please.
    I reached out to Sonarworks regarding this as well, but a few audio savvy people I know are saying it's an issue between Windows audio and the Twin USB. I know I've never changed Windows audio settings. Would the initial install of UAD/Console 2 have made changes where I can't see the mic inputs (or even the default built in mic) in Windows?

    Matt: Off the bat, installing the UAD software does not affect the other audio drivers on your system in any way, so that wouldn't be the cause of your built in input not showing up in the Windows sound preferences. In the "Recording devices" window, I would suggest right clicking and selecting "Show Disabled Devices" in case the built in input got inadvertently disabled.

    Regarding the Apollo Twin's inputs being labeled "Line" in the Recording devices tab of Windows sound preferences - this is purely cosmetic and doesn't actually indicate that only the Twin's line inputs can be used. In other words, it's just what Windows chooses to call these inputs for whatever reason. In reality, the first mic and line input on the Twin USB share the same driver channel and the second mic and line input on the Twin USB share the same driver channel so it's not possible for an audio application to distinguish between the mic and line inputs via the Apollo Twin's drivers. Rather, whether "Input 1" in the Apollo Twin's driver is mic or line depends on whether or not you have the first input on the Twin set to MIC or LINE either via the Apollo Twin hardware or the Console application. When set to MIC, signal is taken from the XLR input, and when set to LINE signal is taken from the 1/4" TRS input on the corresponding channel.*

    So the issue here isn't that those inputs are labeled as "line", but rather that the signal coming into the Apollo Twin isn't making it into Sonarworks for some reason.*

    It sounds like Sonarworks uses WDM drivers (i.e. the drivers that show up in the Windows Sound preferences, which are separate from drivers that show up in a DAW application) so the first thing I would check is that the WDM sample rate set for the Twin USB in the Windows Sound preferences matches the sample rate set in the Console application. Here's how you do that:

    1. First open Console and note the sample rate set at the bottom.*

    2. Right click the speaker icon in the bottom right corner of your desktop and select "Playback devices". In the Playback devices window, select the Apollo and then click "Properties". Go to the "Advanced" tab in the window that appears and use the "Default Format" drop down menu to select the correct sample rate (i.e. the sample rate selected in Console). While you're on the advanced tab, uncheck both "Exclusive Mode" options.

    3. Right click the speaker icon in the bottom right corner of your desktop and select "Recording devices". In the Recording devices window, select the Apollo and then click "Properties". Go to the "Advanced" tab in the window that appears and use the "Default Format" drop down menu to select the correct sample rate (i.e. the sample rate selected in Console). While you're on the advanced tab, uncheck both "Exclusive Mode" options.

    When this is complete both the Playback and Recording sample rates for the Twin USB in the Windows Sound preferences should match the sample rate in Console, and all four of the Exclusive Mode options for the Twin USB should be disabled (two at playback devices > Apollo > properties > advanced and two at recording devices > Apollo > properties > advanced).*

    So, it seems there are 3 issues in that 1) Windows does not see all my input options from the Twin USB 2) that the sample rate in Windows audio is at 24 bit and can't be changed to 16 bit - my interface is set to internal and 3) I am unable to reset the bit rate to 16 bit/44.1. Any info is greatly appreciated. Thanks, Shep
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Sonarworks Input.jpg   IO Win 10.jpg   Audio Window.jpg  
    Last edited by jshep0102; 01 May 2017 at 18:27.
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  2.    02 May 2017 #2
    Join Date : Jan 2014
    Inverness
    Posts : 1,181
    Win 10

    I have studio, using Cakewalk Sonar and an MOTU 896mk3 Hybrid interface.

    I don't have much to add. I don't use it. I've seen some posts about Sonar works on the Cakewalk Sonar forum but nothing about having any problems. Have you tried posting on the gearslutz forum? That might get you more help than this forum since its a recording forum. The music computers section would be my suggestion.
    Music Computers - Gearslutz Pro Audio Community

    I found this current thread about Sonarworks on the gearslutz forum. Look it over in case there is something useful for you.
    Sonorworks reference correction for system audio - Gearslutz Pro Audio Community
      My ComputersSystem Spec
  3.    02 May 2017 #3
    Join Date : Aug 2015
    Posts : 12
    Windows 10 Home Premium 64 bit
    Thread Starter

    Thanks much for chiming in, firebird. I posted here because I think it's a Windows issue. I have a ticket open at Sonarworks, at UA, and talking on the UA forums, too. It's been quite the debacle. Every audio software I have sees all my ins and outs except SW. I understand now that Sonarworks works with direct sound drivers. That may be a problem...
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  4.    02 May 2017 #4
    Join Date : Jan 2014
    Inverness
    Posts : 1,181
    Win 10

    Keep in mind Windows doesn't have to "work" or "accommodate" the program, the program must be "compatible" with Windows. Thus its up to the application program to work within the constraints of the Operating System. A comparison would be your car; for example if you had a Ford and you wanted to install an add on part not made by Ford, Ford does not have to be compatible with the part, the part must be compatible with the Ford.
      My ComputersSystem Spec
  5.    22 Jul 2017 #5
    Join Date : Jul 2017
    Posts : 1
    Win 10 64bit

    The way in which Windows handles audio has always seemed a little clunky to me.... luckily there always seems to be a workaround. It might be too late for you Shep so I'm adding this just in case it can help others. I downloaded the HiFi Cable ASIO BRIDGE from VB Audio to solve the problem - VB-Audio Virtual Apps

    Also posted a quick description with pics in UAD forums - Twin USB and Sonarworks - Page 2
      My ComputerSystem Spec

 


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