Windows 10: Do I Need a UPS?

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  1. Posts : 680
    W10 Pro (desktop), W10 (laptop), W10 (laptop), W10Pro (tablet)
       13 Aug 2016 #21

    About 15 years ago, a friend gave me an extra UPS he had. I hooked it up and had my computer plugged into it for several years. Not once during that time was it utilized other than when I tested it to make sure it worked. Eventually the battery died and I moved it off to the side thinking I would get a new battery for it. I never did and eventually sent the UPS to recycling. IMO, a UPS isn't needed in a home computing environment.

    In my 40+ years of owning home computers, I've never had any piece of equipment fail due to power surges, brownouts, power outages and the like. YMMV.
      My ComputerSystem Spec

  2.    13 Aug 2016 #22

    strollin said: View Post
    About 15 years ago, a friend gave me an extra UPS he had. I hooked it up and had my computer plugged into it for several years. Not once during that time was it utilized other than when I tested it to make sure it worked. Eventually the battery died and I moved it off to the side thinking I would get a new battery for it. I never did and eventually sent the UPS to recycling. IMO, a UPS isn't needed in a home computing environment.

    In my 40+ years of owning home computers, I've never had any piece of equipment fail due to power surges, brownouts, power outages and the like. YMMV.
    Hmmph! Interesting! FYI, I got to admit also that I've owned my 3rd but serious PC in the late 90s. For 7 years of ownership not once did I EVER experience a brownout. Even with the famous blackout of 2003 in NYC (which I strongly believe was a terrorist act, BTW) did I ever encounter a problem with my computer.

    My computer has turned itself off on rare occasions. But i dont know what it was due to. But again, all it took was to press a button on the surge protector (I think that's what it was) and the computer turned back on. Maybe this is what I need, a surge protector?

    Because of your comment, I now doubt whether I should seriously pursuit the idea of buying a UPS.
      My ComputerSystem Spec


  3. Posts : 680
    W10 Pro (desktop), W10 (laptop), W10 (laptop), W10Pro (tablet)
       13 Aug 2016 #23

    xlook said: View Post
    ... Because of your comment, I now doubt whether I should seriously pursuit the idea of buying a UPS.
    As you've seen in this thread, others don't share my view. If you're the extra cautious type, get a UPS, if not, go without.

    I keep my data backed up and don't worry too much about hardware since it can be replaced.
      My ComputerSystem Spec

  4.    14 Aug 2016 #24

    RolandJS said: View Post
    A good quality UPS does everything a surge suppressor does and protects for a limited time against brown/black outs.
    Myths, hearsay, and outright lies are flowing in a flood. This completely bogus recommendation is a ripe example.

    A UPS provides temporary and 'dirty' power so that unsaved data can be saved. It does claim surge protection. One is supposed to read numbers - not listen to advertising myths - before making a recommendation.

    A destructive surge can be hundreds of thousand of joules. How many joules does that UPS claim to absorb? Hundreds? Just enough above zero so that naive will claim it does 100% protection. If its joules were any tinier, then it would have to be zero joules. But they are not claiming effective protection. They are playing naive consumers as fools by selling near zero protection as 100% protection. Always easier when consumers eyes glaze over with each number.

    UPS is for power outages. Power outage does not damage electronics. Those who say otherwise use observation as proof. Then we take that hardware to find the failed part. Power outage does not cause damage. Only wild speculation makes that claim. A conclusion only made from observation is classic junk science reasoning.

    UPS is temporary and 'dirty' power so that unsaved data can be saved. It does not protect saved data and it does not protect hardware. Anyone can read its spec numbers. Note how many make recommendations by ignoring numbers and plenty of other hard facts.

    Also view *subjective* recommendations that suggested power strip protectors. How many joules does it claim to absorb? Also a near zero number. Does not matter. Their target is people who know without first learning facts.

    For hardware protection, one 'whole house' protector protects everything. With numbers that claim to protect even from direct lighting strikes. This costs about $1 per protected appliance. And it virtually unknown to a majority only educated by hearsay, advertising, speculation, word association, and junk science. If that computer needs this protection, then everything needs this protection. The fewer and informed proplerly earth a 'whole house' solution. Then hundreds of thousands of joules dissipate harmlessly outside. Then nobody even knew a potentially destructive transient existed. But that means being informed by facts and numbers. Not by hearsay from people who ignore spec numbers.
      My ComputerSystem Spec

  5.    14 Aug 2016 #25

    xlook said: View Post
    And again, for your reference into how much power my PC draws, below is my PC parts list.
    Your computer is not even drawing 350 watts. And probably closer to 100 watts most of the time. Is your computer so hot as to also toast bread? Of course not. But most who assemble a computer do not even know how electricity works. Have no idea how to select PSU. To keep help lines free (to not teach computer assemblers basic electrical knowledge), we tell them a 350 watt computer needs a 700 watt PSU.

    300 watts would be more than sufficient. But a UPS is made as cheaply as possible. Its battery life expectancy is three years. So that it can provide those 300 watts even with degraded batteries (and other electrical reasons), then a 500 watt UPS is recommended.

    UPS protects unsaved data. Read that UPS specifications. It does not claim to protect hardware. It is only temporary and 'dirty' power for a blackout. It only does what it claims to do - irregardless of what sales brochures, advertising, and hearsay claim. A completely different., many times less expensive, and well proven solution was recommended for hardware protection.
    Last edited by westom; 14 Aug 2016 at 10:50.
      My ComputerSystem Spec


  6. Posts : 824
    Win10/64 Pro 1511 (and 2 Win 7/64 Ult & Pro systems)
       14 Aug 2016 #26

    I keep my data backed up
    Sound strategy.

    and don't worry too much about hardware since it can be replaced.
    It does not seem unreasonable to want to protect one's existing hardware, rather than risk replacing it.

    But, hardware considerations aside...

    Phone Man said: View Post
    A big advantage with a UPS, it gives you time to save and close anything you are working on in case you loose power.
    Time to save work and perform an orderly shutdown has been valuable for me on several occasions over the years during unexpected power glitches.

    The decision to use a UPS is a personal cost:benefit choice each user must make for his/her own circumstances.

    However, as this thread is starting to become a bit <shall we say> "heated" <pun intended>, I'll leave it to others to continue the passionate arguments debate.

    Cheers,
    MM
      My ComputerSystem Spec

  7.    14 Aug 2016 #27

    "...UPS protects unsaved data. Read that UPS specifications. It does not claim to protect hardware. It is only temporary and 'dirty' power for a blackout. It only does what it claims to do - regardless of what sales brochures, advertising, and hearsay claim. A completely different., many times less expensive, and well proven solution was recommended for hardware protection..." I must respectfully disagree with some bitsNpieces of the above-given thoughts.
    First/foremost, hardware is protected against surges [for a time], is helped in longevity [rather than protected] by having "cleaned power" output.
    Software is protected if the end-user is around to save all opened files, any open recordings in progress [think vhs/dvd recorders], and then safely and properly shutting down any/all open programs, shutting down the recording machine[s], before the battery time limit approaches "red alert."
    I've used surge suppressors [some real good!, some so-so in the past], I gladly installed UPS on our computer center, our vhs/dvd transferring/recording area once I realized UPS provides "cleaned power" while building power is on, and provides a safe & proper shutdown within a time limit if a brown/black-out is in progress.
    I will leave one example of how an absence of and a presence of an UPS:
    Without an UPS, with only a surge suppressor, wifey and I home while dvd recording was in progress, a sudden brownout turned off the vhs/dvd combo thus stopping the recording, suddenly the combo resumed its recording, and everything prior to the brownout was lost.
    With an UPS, a brownout happened while wifey was home. She only had to turn off the warning beep. The combo recording went on uninterrupted, nothing was lost.
    Surge suppressors only, or, UPS -- your call
      My ComputerSystem Spec

  8.    14 Aug 2016 #28

    Those of you with desktops: if you only have surge suppressors, and no UPS, if you were in the middle of a bios flash, or you were working on a currently unsaved important document or critical spreadsheet, or you were actively conducting some important business via email, via browser, etc., and a sudden brown/black-out occurs -- [quoting Finding Nemo] "Now what?"
    Surge suppressors only, or, UPS -- your call
      My ComputerSystem Spec

  9.    14 Aug 2016 #29

    RolandJS;775504[COLOR=#333333 said:
    I gladly installed UPS on our computer center, our vhs/dvd transferring/recording area once I realized UPS provides "cleaned power" while building power is on, and provides a safe & proper shutdown within a time limit if a brown/black-out is in progress.[/COLOR]
    Output from my 120 v sine wave UPS in battery backup mode is 200 volt square waves with a spike of up to 270 volts. Cleanest power is when a UPS connect the computer directly to AC mains.

    Meanwhile, 'clean' UPS power is actually a joke. Assume you have cleanest power. That computer converts cleanest power into well over 300 volt radio frequency spikes. What happens to 'clean'? It is intentionally converted into 'dirtiest' power. Then superior filters, galvanic isolation, and regulators convert 'dirtiest' power into rock stable, absoultely cleanest, low DC voltage.

    Does not matter how clean that UPS power is. First it is made as dirty as possible. Then cleaners far superior to what any UPS might do clean that intentionally made dirty power.

    UPS has one purpose as demonstrated by above examples. To save unsaved data - such as a DVR recording or loading data into an Eprom. Each example is about saving unsaved data; not about hardware protection.

    Meanwhile, a plug-in protector also does not claim to protect from hardware destructive transients. That protection must be provided by something completely different - also called a surge protector (previously detailed).
      My ComputerSystem Spec


  10. Posts : 680
    W10 Pro (desktop), W10 (laptop), W10 (laptop), W10Pro (tablet)
       15 Aug 2016 #30

    MoxieMomma said: View Post
    ... The decision to use a UPS is a personal cost:benefit choice each user must make for his/her own circumstances. ...

    Cheers,
    MM
    It boils down to this. It's a personal choice.

    As for RolandJS's examples, if I had a DVD recording fail due to a power brownout or power outage, my reaction would be, "Oh well, guess I need to redo that recording." As for the example of a power outage during a BIOS update, I'd liken that to the need to carry 4 spare tires for my car. It's possible that I could get 4 flat tires at one time but the odds are that it will not happen. In the 40+ years I have been using PCs, I've only updated the BIOS a handful of times, not often enough to worry whether or not the power might go out during the few seconds that it takes to update the BIOS.

    If you're the kind that gets some piece of mind by owning/using a UPS, go for it, it's your money, you can spend it anyway you like.
      My ComputerSystem Spec


 
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