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  1.    04 Jan 2017 #11
    Join Date : Jul 2015
    Posts : 55
    Windows 10 Pro

    Interesting stuff regarding Creative/Realtek and a good explanation of the hardware ID locking but I'm still confused as to why the 8023 drivers are missing the Creative driver components. Whilst I'm quite sure that many Realtek audio codecs don't require these Creative drivers, my motherboard seems to be mute without them! And yet, it does not contain any Creative hardware, just a Realtek ALC1150 with the option to run additional Creative audio processing software (bundled with the motherboard but never installed since I don't need it).

    Oh well, back to 8010 until I can find the answer. Perhaps I'll keep trying each new driver release until I find one that works.
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  2.    04 Jan 2017 #12
    Join Date : Jul 2015
    Posts : 55
    Windows 10 Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by ComputerGeek View Post
    I found 7 INFs commented with Hardware ID Locking including (not the complete list)
    Code:
    Creative MB2 Hardware ID locking
    D-company X-Fi MB3 Hardware ID locking
    SoundBlaster Cinema 3 Hardware ID locking (M-company ESS case)
    I also found this from thread Unlocked Realtek HD Audio Drivers Windows 7, 8 and 8.1 (With Dolby Digital Live and DTS Interactive)


    Sounds like some Realtek drivers include licensed features that only run on specific h/w (maybe locked based on audio chip h/w id?). Do you have any of the licensed features? Sounds like the bundled the driver files together into a single INF but licensed features only available from specific h/w ids.
    As far as I know, it does not have any of these licensed features; just a Creative software bundle that adds some audio processing functions (if you choose to install it). I guess the real question is why have Realtek stripped away some of the driver components that were in version 8010 and earlier? Whatever it is they have removed, it seems to have broken compatibility with my motherboard.
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  3.    04 Jan 2017 #13
    Join Date : Apr 2015
    Posts : 229
    Windows 10 x64 v1703

    Quote Originally Posted by wiggly1uk2000 View Post
    If I try to install 8018 or 8023 as an upgrade over the standard MS supplied high definition driver then the board will not produce sound and simply gives a Code 39 in Device Manager. However, if I upgrade to 8018 or 8023 from a previous installation of 8010 then it will work, but only because it retains the Creative driver components from 8010 in the upgrade process.
    > Do you still have Code 39? When you do, in DevManager right click the device->Properties->Details tab. Use the pulldown and look if either Class uppper filters and/or Class lower filters exist. If yes, then post their values.
    > Which version of the audio driver do you currently have installed?

    Again, right click to Properties->Details tab
    1. Use pull down menu to look for two items: inf name and something like matching device id. Post the result
    2. Windows renames the original INF to oem.nnn. We want the original name. From command prompt

    Code:
    disk /online /get-drivers
    The output shows oem vs. original filename pairs. What's the original filename of the INF used to install your Realtek audio driver?
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Filters.jpg 
Views:	82 
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ID:	115833
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  4.    04 Jan 2017 #14
    Join Date : Jul 2015
    Posts : 55
    Windows 10 Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by ComputerGeek View Post
    > Do you still have Code 39? When you do, in DevManager right click the device->Properties->Details tab. Use the pulldown and look if either Class uppper filters and/or Class lower filters exist. If yes, then post their values.
    > Which version of the audio driver do you currently have installed?

    Again, right click to Properties->Details tab
    1. Use pull down menu to look for two items: inf name and something like matching device id. Post the result
    2. Windows renames the original INF to oem.nnn. We want the original name. From command prompt

    Code:
    disk /online /get-drivers
    The output shows oem vs. original filename pairs. What's the original filename of the INF used to install your Realtek audio driver?
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Filters.jpg 
Views:	82 
Size:	47.4 KB 
ID:	115833
    I no longer have the Code 39 error in Device Manager because I've removed the 8023 driver and reverted to 8010, which works perfectly with my system.

    In 8010 I have an Upper filter which is named MBfilt (mbfilt64.sys) . This is one of the Creative Labs drivers and is missing from the Realtek 8023 driver package. The Class upper filter is ksthunk. I imagine it's the omission of mbfilt64.sys in 8023 that's causing the problem.

    The original INF file used to install my drivers is hdxmb3h.inf with the following Hardware IDs:

    HDAUDIO\FUNC_01&VEN_10EC&DEV_0900&SUBSYS_1458A0B2&REV_1000
    HDAUDIO\FUNC_01&VEN_10EC&DEV_0900&SUBSYS_1458A0B2
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  5.    04 Jan 2017 #15
    Join Date : Jul 2015
    Posts : 55
    Windows 10 Pro

    UPDATE: For anyone remotely interested I managed to get 8023 working by editing the hdxmb3h.inf file and removing the following lines:

    [Creative.FilterHW.AddReg]
    HKR,,"UpperFilters",0x00010000,"MBfilt"

    By removing this reference to the MBfilt Upper filter the driver will install correctly and produce sound.

    I don't make a habit of editing INF files and I'm by no means certain that the driver will be stable like this but from a diagnostic point of view it has proved useful.

    I still have no idea why the INF was referencing a filter driver that was omitted from the driver package. I'll be very interested to see what changes in upcoming driver releases.
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  6.    04 Jan 2017 #16
    Join Date : Apr 2015
    Posts : 229
    Windows 10 x64 v1703

    Quote Originally Posted by wiggly1uk2000 View Post
    UPDATE: For anyone remotely interested I managed to get 8023 working by editing the hdxmb3h.inf file and removing the following lines:
    [Creative.FilterHW.AddReg]
    HKR,,"UpperFilters",0x00010000,"MBfilt"
    By removing this reference to the MBfilt Upper filter the driver will install correctly and produce sound.

    I don't make a habit of editing INF files and I'm by no means certain that the driver will be stable like this but from a diagnostic point of view it has proved useful.

    I still have no idea why the INF was referencing a filter driver that was omitted from the driver package. I'll be very interested to see what changes in upcoming driver releases.
    Excellent, EXCELLENT job!

    You got where I was going on your own and ahead of me!

    Device error code 39 , not always, but i've often seen caused by driver filter issue. One cause of Code 39 is when driver files defined in the registry reference a file no longer on disk. No surprise Windows can't load the device driver. A file is missing!
    Usually, i see this problem arise when a 3rd party uninstaller, removes the disk file but not the registry reference it added during install. But YOU found a genuine bug in the Realtek driver! Great job.

    As to your solution, must admit I'm surprised you could edit the INF file to make this work. Any change to the INF breaks the digital signature so Windows will no longer install it as it's become an unsigned driver.

    My own advice around this problem (if you can't edit the INF) is editing the registry to delete the offending filter file reference. Note to the reader:
    • It's class upper/lower filters that may be the problem (not device upper/lower filters). There's a difference
    • When troubleshooting, check the Provider of any filter files in question. Microsoft filters are fine. It's those 3rd party filters that can be problematic
    Last edited by ComputerGeek; 06 Jan 2017 at 09:16.
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  7.    04 Jan 2017 #17
    Join Date : Sep 2015
    Posts : 2,357
    Windows 10 Pro 64-bit 1706 (CU build 15063.674)

    Not relevant to Realtek, but relevant to filters, I once had an issue with my old ATAPI DVD-RW drives connected to an IDE/SATA PCI-E card with JMICRON JMB36X chipset. The DVD-RW would show a yellow exclamation mark (problem) in Device Manager and won't let me use them. At first I suspected the JMICRON controller. I tried many drivers without success, when I read somewhere about deleting the upper filters in Registry. Bingo! The drives now work perfectly and I haven't noticed any side-effect by deleting them. Of course I have kept a backup of the relevant key just in case.
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  8.    05 Jan 2017 #18
    Join Date : Jul 2015
    Posts : 55
    Windows 10 Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by ComputerGeek View Post
    Excellent, EXCELLENT job!

    You got where I was going on your own and ahead of me!

    Device error code 39 , not always, but i've often seen caused by driver filter issue.
    One cause of Code 39 is when driver files defined in the registry reference a file no longer on disk. No surprise Windows can't load the device driver. A file is missing!
    Usually, i see this problem arise when a 3rd party uninstaller, removes the disk file but not the registry reference it added during install. But YOU found a genuine bug in the Realtek driver! Great job.

    As to your solution, must admit I'm surprised you could edit the INF file to make this work. Any change to the INF breaks the digital signature so Windows will no longer install it as it's become an unsigned driver.

    My own advice around this problem (if you can't edit the INF) is editing the registry to delete the offending filter file reference. Note to the reader:
    • It's class upper/lower filters that may be the problem (not device upper/lower filters). There's a difference
    • When troubleshooting, check the Provider of any filter files in question. Microsoft filters are fine. It's those 3rd party filters that can be problematic

    Also, IMHO
    Troubleshooting documentation about filters usually advise deleting class upper and lower filter keys if found in the registry. I disagree! That can fix one problem but cause another. There can be one or more upper/lower filters in either key. Deleting the key removes ALL the filters defined in the key - some of which can be for products you're still using and now they can starting having problems because their driver filter has been deleted. Filter keys are text strings. Simply edit the string to remove the offending filename reference. (of course, always creating a system restore point prior to a regedit)

    /* EDIT */
    Only edit the filter filename out of the key if there's more then the one filename in the key. Otherwise, delete the key. I also found a case where a filter key existed in the registry with no filter names defined also cause problems (i.e. the key just contained any empty string)

    /* EDIT 2 */
    If you do delete the an upper/lower filter registry key which included a filter for a program still needed, uninstall / re-installing the program should cause it to put that filter needed back in the registry
    The Realtek installer rejected my modified INF but it installed okay via Device Manager (Update Driver). Not the most elegant solution considering that I have no idea what functionality the MBfilt64.sys driver offered in the first place. Still, I'll bet it's nothing I really need!

    Thanks for your assistance.
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  9.    05 Jan 2017 #19
    Join Date : Sep 2015
    Posts : 2,357
    Windows 10 Pro 64-bit 1706 (CU build 15063.674)

    The "filt" in the filename suggests some audio filter (digital sound processing or audio effect). In the worst case this can be some environmental audio effect (eg auditorium or whatever) that is now missing. Big deal. You can do the same with appropriate plugins in Windows Media Player or WinAmp or whatever media player you are using.
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  10.    06 Jan 2017 #20
    Join Date : Jul 2015
    Posts : 55
    Windows 10 Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by spapakons View Post
    The "filt" in the filename suggests some audio filter (digital sound processing or audio effect). In the worst case this can be some environmental audio effect (eg auditorium or whatever) that is now missing. Big deal. You can do the same with appropriate plugins in Windows Media Player or WinAmp or whatever media player you are using.

    The mbfilt64.sys file is only 41kb in size so I wonder if it's just there to enable installation and use of the optional Creative software suite. As I understand it, the Creative software bundle that I received with my motherboard requires that you install the Realtek driver first. I've had a few bad experiences with Creative software in the past so I can't say I feel inclined to try it!
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