Windows 10: Should SSD's be defragmented Solved

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  1. Posts : 14,977
    Microsoft Windows 10 Pro 64-bit 14393, Windows 10 Insider Fast Ring, Windows 8.1 Update, Ubuntu
       09 Jun 2016 #31

    Edward said: View Post
    I set up windows defrag to trim my SSD monthly, is that good for my SSD?
    You do mean "Optimize Drives" don't you?
    The one that comes with Windows 8 though 10?
    Its called Optimize, because if it sees a SSD, it will execute the re-TRIM command, if it sees a HDD, it will defragment, when it's needed, even if set to daily or weekly, if it's not needed, it won't do either of these, until certain criteria are met when Windows runs the daily Auto-maintenance.
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  2.    09 Jun 2016 #32

    Hi there

    Why would an SSD need to be defragmented. Te only reson to defrag an HDD is that parts of the file exist over physcally different sectors and the HDD has to rotate to position the read mechanism to pick the file up -- obviously the more chunks scattered over the HDD the more the seek and Read accesses are required to get the file.

    With an SSD it's all in an equivalent of a 2-D array -- no physical movement so to simplfy - no difference if data is at say E 51 of J 27 (assuming a 2-D array).
    The best thing you can do with an SSD is LEAVE IT. !!!

    If you are paranoid a system Image and Restore will be fine. Actually that's better than defragging an HDD too -- NOTE don't CLONE the HDD - IMAGE IT, reformat and restore - then your HDD is optimised better than a defrag and it's usually a lot quicker too.

    SSD's - simply restore - no need to re-format.

    Cheers
    jimbo
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  3. Posts : 14,977
    Microsoft Windows 10 Pro 64-bit 14393, Windows 10 Insider Fast Ring, Windows 8.1 Update, Ubuntu
       09 Jun 2016 #33

    jimbo45 said: View Post
    Hi there

    Why would an SSD need to be defragmented. Te only reson to defrag an HDD is that parts of the file exist over physcally different sectors and the HDD has to rotate to position the read mechanism to pick the file up -- obviously the more chunks scattered over the HDD the more the seek and Read accesses are required to get the file.

    With an SSD it's all in an equivalent of a 2-D array -- no physical movement so to simplfy - no difference if data is at say E 51 of J 27 (assuming a 2-D array).
    The best thing you can do with an SSD is LEAVE IT. !!!


    Cheers
    jimbo
    I just want to expand on Jimbo45's comment:

    Onew of the jobs of an SSD's controller is, TOO LIE IT'S BUTT OFF to the operating system.

    It makes the OS see the SSD partitioning physically as a HDD, where as, the data is ALWAYS scattered on the SSD like bird shot from a shotgun.
    If you run a defrag, the controller will tell the OS: "Yeah yeah, the data is on the disk, in the place where you think it is!", and that cannot be, because there is no disk, there are integrated circuit cells.
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  4.    09 Jun 2016 #34

    Good! I'll avoid Diskeeper, which by the way has not updated nor can I get an update for that since 2012. It doesn't appear they're putting any emphasis on that anymore whatsoever.
    I'll take the advice given here and use TRIM. Thank you again everyone for the very helpful advice!!!
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  5.    09 Jun 2016 #35

    @jimbo45 and @Cliff S This is why its important to use the included defrag/optimise tool so you know its not going to mess your SSD up by defragging it when it should've have been optimised.
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  6. Posts : 14,977
    Microsoft Windows 10 Pro 64-bit 14393, Windows 10 Insider Fast Ring, Windows 8.1 Update, Ubuntu
       09 Jun 2016 #36

    Maggidon said: View Post
    Good! I'll avoid Diskeeper, which by the way has not updated nor can I get an update for that since 2012. It doesn't appear they're putting any emphasis on that anymore whatsoever.
    I'll take the advice given here and use TRIM. Thank you again everyone for the very helpful advice!!!
    You're welcome, if you have a 2nd internal disk that's HDD, or an external HDD, you could use Diskeeper for them, but I have tried many(only one at a time, for a couple of months of course, so the different tools defrag algorithms didn't try to defrag what the other did), and found Windows own to be the best actually.as Windows is set to place boot files to the beginning, for a faster boot, and system files in the order of use & importance. For normal data, such as pictures, music, documents, it doesn't matter where they are placed, as they are read into memory. And prefetch also loads parts of most used programs into memory, or places what might be needed later into virtual memory for fast opening(Win10 sees the SSD and turns prefetch off for the SSD, but not for any HDDs you might have.

    Basically, I'm just saying, Let Windows take care of everything.
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  7.    09 Jun 2016 #37

    swarfega said: View Post
    @jimbo45 and @Cliff S This is why its important to use the included defrag/optimise tool so you know its not going to mess your SSD up by defragging it when it should've have been optimised.
    Hi there .

    I've a few SSD's -- never done the TRIM / OPTIMISE in any way whatsoever and they are fine. I've got a few older ones too that I use as testing for various OS'es - booting from USB or e-sata slots. Never a problem.

    In Normal use SSD's are these days inherently more reliable and faster in every way compared with older HDD spinners.
    I've never used any of these so called optimisation utilities either from Ms or any 3rd party and my HDD's / SSD's probably get far more robust use than typical users give theirs.

    My advice is to really leave al "The clever stuff" to the hardware I/O controllers and the HDD's will be just fine -- and as I said for Spinners an image restore will work far faster than a slow defrag.

    The other thing of course is to always have decent backups so you can recover from any eventuality - from a Disk going defective to a stupid error like deleting a critical file.

    Cheers
    jimbo
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  8.    09 Jun 2016 #38

    I backup once a week to my NAS and my user files are stored on drive e:.
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  9.    10 Jun 2016 #39

    Cliff S said: View Post
    You do mean "Optimize Drives" don't you?
    The one that comes with Windows 8 though 10?
    Its called Optimize, because if it sees a SSD, it will execute the re-TRIM command, if it sees a HDD, it will defragment, when it's needed, even if set to daily or weekly, if it's not needed, it won't do either of these, until certain criteria are met when Windows runs the daily Auto-maintenance.
    Hi Cliff, Yes the one that comes with windows 10 when I click optimize it will start trimming, or I should use the Samsung Magician one to trim SSD? Once in a month is not necessary I think once In a while I think it's better?
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  10.    10 Jun 2016 #40

    Unlike defragging, Trim on an SSD is just Trim, it doesn't matter which program initiates it the results will be exactly the same. Trim doesn't move files, trim resets storage locations on the SSD that have had data previously stored there. There are two steps required to make a storage location available on an SSD. The first step is to delete the previous data. The second step is to reset the storage location for reuse. The first step is done on-command at the moment it is required. The second step is only performed when either there are no more reset data locations available for use or periodically, hopefully during idle periods. By waiting for an idle period to do the second step, the SSD performance is increased. The second step is the trim operation.
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