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  1.    02 Nov 2015 #1
    Join Date : Nov 2015
    Posts : 9
    Windows 10

    Random Stuttering / DPC Latency Nightmare


    EDIT: Since a lot of people seem to be reading this (probably from google with the same problem), here's the tl;dr:
    >So far, no concrete fix.
    >Definitely a problem with the LAN card.
    >If you have a Realtek card, downgrading to Win7 drivers seem to lessen the amount of stutters.
    >Disabling all kinds of CPU throttling will make them less severe when they happen (But it will eat more power running at 100% all the time)


    (Forgive me if this is the incorrect form, since DPC latency issues are related to drivers I figure this is the best place)

    I've been having issues with random audio + video stuttering since I upgraded to Windows 10 Educational (x64) about 2 months ago now. Previously, I ran Windows 7 (x64) on nearly identical hardware without issue. The only new piece of hardware is a Samsung SSD, but due to the specific drivers causing latency, I'd find it exceptionally hard to believe that these stutters stem from a faulty drive.

    Fortunately, I've managed to narrow the problem down, but I'm pretty much stumped at this point since nothing I do can actually fix it.

    Here's all the relevant information:

    >Stutters last anywhere from about 100ms to 500ms.

    >I have used LatencyMon to narrow down some of the offending drivers: ndis.sys and tcpip.sys.
    ndis spike:
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	ndisSpike.jpg 
Views:	36 
Size:	184.3 KB 
ID:	46079
    tcpip spike:
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	tcpipSpike.jpg 
Views:	23 
Size:	106.2 KB 
ID:	46080

    >This probably means it's something network related, so:
    -I have updated to the latest Windows 10 compatible network drivers for my on-board Realtek network adapter.
    -I have disabled all power-saving / idle shutdown settings for the network adapter in device manager.
    -I can't be 100% certain, but doing these two things seem to have slowed the rate at which the stuttering occurs. Instead of the usual 5-10 times per day, it's now down to around 3 times per day. (observed over the past week or so)

    >Activating Windows 10's BITS (Background Intelligent Transfer Service) seems to have a high likelihood of triggering a stutter.
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	BITSSpike.jpg 
Views:	24 
Size:	369.8 KB 
ID:	46078
    -Probably 2/5 times there is a stutter, the event viewer will show the above event at the exact time the stutter occurred. Event 7040, settings BITS from demand start to auto start. This is the only event I have been able to directly correlate with the stutter. May be helpful, may not be.

    >Unfortunately, there's more: sometimes, when a stutter occurs, LatencyMon will not pick it up. I'm not sure what this means. Perhaps there's some other process LatencyMon doesn't monitor that is causing these stutters? Or perhaps LatencyMon just crapped out for a second and didn't notice it?
    -This somewhat worries me that this might be the effect of more than one latency-related problem, but I can't know that for sure, so I'll keep assuming it's stemming from a single cause until there's direct evidence otherwise.

    Any insight would be vastly appreciated. This has been driving me up the wall more and more each time it happens. It's gotten me killed more than once in games, and it also makes me freak out when composing music, thinking there are nasty buffer underruns going on. That, and it's just a general annoyance that I'd really love to see gone.


    Relevant Hardware:
    >AMD FX 8350
    >Asrock 970 Extreme4
    >Samsung 850 EVO SSD
    >Asus Xonar DG Sound Card
    >GTX 770

    Thanks a ton in advance.
    Last edited by Psiyon; 28 Nov 2015 at 18:37.
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  2.    12 Nov 2015 #2
    Join Date : Nov 2015
    Posts : 27
    windows 10

    Quote Originally Posted by Psiyon View Post
    (Forgive me if this is the incorrect form, since DPC latency issues are related to drivers I figure this is the best place)

    I've been having issues with random audio + video stuttering since I upgraded to Windows 10 Educational (x64) about 2 months ago now. Previously, I ran Windows 7 (x64) on nearly identical hardware without issue. The only new piece of hardware is a Samsung SSD, but due to the specific drivers causing latency, I'd find it exceptionally hard to believe that these stutters stem from a faulty drive.

    Fortunately, I've managed to narrow the problem down, but I'm pretty much stumped at this point since nothing I do can actually fix it.

    Here's all the relevant information:

    >Stutters last anywhere from about 100ms to 500ms.

    >I have used LatencyMon to narrow down some of the offending drivers: ndis.sys and tcpip.sys.
    ndis spike:
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	ndisSpike.jpg 
Views:	36 
Size:	184.3 KB 
ID:	46079
    tcpip spike:
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	tcpipSpike.jpg 
Views:	23 
Size:	106.2 KB 
ID:	46080

    >This probably means it's something network related, so:
    -I have updated to the latest Windows 10 compatible network drivers for my on-board Realtek network adapter.
    -I have disabled all power-saving / idle shutdown settings for the network adapter in device manager.
    -I can't be 100% certain, but doing these two things seem to have slowed the rate at which the stuttering occurs. Instead of the usual 5-10 times per day, it's now down to around 3 times per day. (observed over the past week or so)

    >Activating Windows 10's BITS (Background Intelligent Transfer Service) seems to have a high likelihood of triggering a stutter.
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	BITSSpike.jpg 
Views:	24 
Size:	369.8 KB 
ID:	46078
    -Probably 2/5 times there is a stutter, the event viewer will show the above event at the exact time the stutter occurred. Event 7040, settings BITS from demand start to auto start. This is the only event I have been able to directly correlate with the stutter. May be helpful, may not be.

    >Unfortunately, there's more: sometimes, when a stutter occurs, LatencyMon will not pick it up. I'm not sure what this means. Perhaps there's some other process LatencyMon doesn't monitor that is causing these stutters? Or perhaps LatencyMon just crapped out for a second and didn't notice it?
    -This somewhat worries me that this might be the effect of more than one latency-related problem, but I can't know that for sure, so I'll keep assuming it's stemming from a single cause until there's direct evidence otherwise.

    Any insight would be vastly appreciated. This has been driving me up the wall more and more each time it happens. It's gotten me killed more than once in games, and it also makes me freak out when composing music, thinking there are nasty buffer underruns going on. That, and it's just a general annoyance that I'd really love to see gone.


    Relevant Hardware:
    >AMD FX 8350
    >Asrock 970 Extreme4
    >Samsung 850 EVO SSD
    >Asus Xonar DG Sound Card
    >GTX 770

    Thanks a ton in advance.
    I have exactly the same problem, but I have an intel hardware and different sound cards also tested, but... I have the same GPU only. I have tried almost everything except clean install of windows 10. I have also tried to run xperf instead of Latencymon, but it is also drops this stutters, but at least xperf give me a clear message that some events are lost, i think with the same reason stutter occurs and data lost everywhere. I have been also played with system
    timers, HPET/TSC - nothing helps. Testing now with LAN card disabled in device manager...
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  3.    12 Nov 2015 #3
    Join Date : Nov 2015
    Posts : 9
    Windows 10
    Thread Starter

    ^Looks like Latencymon isn't actually missing the stuttering. What you have to do is set the recording type to "Kernel Timer Latency". It will then pick up the stuttering, but it still won't catch the responsible driver when the stutter occurs. If it even is a driver causing the problem. tcpip and ndis still spike for me on occasion, but usually there's no definite driver.

    Some of the things I've been trying recently (spoiler: with no luck)
    >Updated to the latest drivers for my onboard Realtek LAN. When that didn't work, downgraded the driver to the Windows 7 version. Did not work either.
    >Disabled all CPU throttling options in the BIOS. Interestingly, I think this makes the spikes less severe, however it did not stop them.
    >Disabled HPET in bios. Was disabled by default in Win10. Did nothing to help, though it seems like DPC latency has actually decreased by a small bit for most processes.
    >Disabled onboard Realtek Audio. No effect.
    >Disabled Legacy USB support in bios. No effect.
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  4.    12 Nov 2015 #4
    Join Date : Nov 2015
    Posts : 27
    windows 10

    Quote Originally Posted by Psiyon View Post
    ^Looks like Latencymon isn't actually missing the stuttering. What you have to do is set the recording type to "Kernel Timer Latency". It will then pick up the stuttering, but it still won't catch the responsible driver when the stutter occurs. If it even is a driver causing the problem. tcpip and ndis still spike for me on occasion, but usually there's no definite driver. Some of the things I've been trying recently (spoiler: with no luck) >Updated to the latest drivers for my onboard Realtek LAN. When that didn't work, downgraded the driver to the Windows 7 version. Did not work either. >Disabled all CPU throttling options in the BIOS. Interestingly, I think this makes the spikes less severe, however it did not stop them. >Disabled HPET in bios. Was disabled by default in Win10. Did nothing to help, though it seems like DPC latency has actually decreased by a small bit for most processes. >Disabled onboard Realtek Audio. No effect. >Disabled Legacy USB support in bios. No effect.
    I am going to try clean install. Disabled LAN helps but it is not the solution.
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  5.    13 Nov 2015 #5
    Join Date : Nov 2015
    Posts : 27
    windows 10

    Quote Originally Posted by woffko View Post
    I am going to try clean install. Disabled LAN helps but it is not the solution.
    No way... On clean install it does not show any problems with latencymon, but stutter exists! IDK what to do now.
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  6.    13 Nov 2015 #6
    Join Date : Nov 2015
    Posts : 9
    Windows 10
    Thread Starter

    Quote Originally Posted by woffko View Post
    No way... On clean install it does not show any problems with latencymon, but stutter exists! IDK what to do now.
    Ouch. Sorry to hear that.

    Quote Originally Posted by woffko View Post
    Disabled LAN helps but it is not the solution.
    What exactly did you mean by this? Does it simply reduce the frequency of the stutter, or did it get rid of it? (Of course, disabling LAN is far from an ideal solution)

    Hm. The only piece of hardware we seem to have in common is the GTX 770. Maybe try this: take the GTX 770 out of your system and run off the Intel graphics for a while, see if the stutter persists. I'd do it on my end, but I'm on an AMD system. Honestly I'm not inclined to believe it would be an issue with the graphics card but at this point I'm 100% out of ideas, and shooting in the dark is really all I've got left to do.
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  7.    14 Nov 2015 #7
    Join Date : Nov 2015
    Posts : 27
    windows 10

    Quote Originally Posted by Psiyon View Post
    Ouch. Sorry to hear that.


    What exactly did you mean by this? Does it simply reduce the frequency of the stutter, or did it get rid of it? (Of course, disabling LAN is far from an ideal solution)

    Hm. The only piece of hardware we seem to have in common is the GTX 770. Maybe try this: take the GTX 770 out of your system and run off the Intel graphics for a while, see if the stutter persists. I'd do it on my end, but I'm on an AMD system. Honestly I'm not inclined to believe it would be an issue with the graphics card but at this point I'm 100% out of ideas, and shooting in the dark is really all I've got left to do.
    When LAN Disabled I did not have stutters, but I have not tested for a long time, just a couple of hours.
    I am planning to unplug it next night, to see if I have DPC problems.
    I don't think that GPU could be a problem, I have tested it just with standard MS driver (Standard VGA adapter).

    Which LAN card do you have exactly?
    Mine is i217-v and i210T1, both are Intel
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  8.    14 Nov 2015 #8
    Join Date : Nov 2015
    Posts : 9
    Windows 10
    Thread Starter

    Quote Originally Posted by woffko View Post
    When LAN Disabled I did not have stutters, but I have not tested for a long time, just a couple of hours.
    I am planning to unplug it next night, to see if I have DPC problems.
    I don't think that GPU could be a problem, I have tested it just with standard MS driver (Standard VGA adapter).

    Which LAN card do you have exactly?
    Mine is i217-v and i210T1, both are Intel
    I've got a Realtek PCIe GBE Controller (8168).

    Unrelated: Just installed the new Win10 1511 update. Doubt there'll be any improvement, but I'll keep an eye out and see if the stuttering persists.

    Edit: The new update did not help.
    Last edited by Psiyon; 14 Nov 2015 at 13:50.
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  9.    15 Nov 2015 #9
    Join Date : Nov 2015
    Posts : 27
    windows 10

    Tested with LAN card disabled in device manager and, separately, torrent free mode... so far, so good — both no stutters, no DPC problems in latencymon.
    Anyway to minimize stutters I've used tcp/ip optimizer from http://www.speedguide.net/downloads.php
    A little bit helped, used just "optimized" settings... but the reason of stutter is connection number not the speed. SO there is something in windows kernel playing so much with some latency on pcie bus... or anything else.
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  10.    15 Nov 2015 #10
    Join Date : Nov 2015
    Posts : 27
    windows 10

    Forgot to say — I have had another "champion" next to ndis.sys, it was Wdf01000.sys with DPC peaks up to 30ms and the reason was... Intel RST that was uninstalled and replaced by standard MSAHCI. Anyway it just helped a bit on overall perfomance.
      My ComputerSystem Spec

 
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