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  1.    18 Sep 2015 #11
    Join Date : Aug 2015
    Maine
    Posts : 36,485
    Windows10Pro 64Bit
    Thread Starter

    I like everything you just posted NavyLCDR in your last post!!!! I don't care about losing 3 or 4 sec's of boot time, just like you said.
    Also don't care about the 1 button push or reset. This computer I am on now takes 28 to 29 sec's to reboot and it was made in 2009.came with Vista. lol New one should take maybe 24 sec's to reboot, that's fast enough for this old fart.
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  2.    18 Sep 2015 #12
    Join Date : Aug 2015
    Penn's Woods
    Posts : 1,182
    Windows 10 Home

    Quote Originally Posted by OldMike65 View Post
    See this is just what I mean about GPT 30 mins ago I was told GPT needs only 3, now its 4 ........this is why I don't want to use GPT partitions!!!!
    Well, OldMike, if it's any solace, you won't see that 4th unallocated gap (not a partition in the usual sense), the MSR, in Disk Management...
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  3.    18 Sep 2015 #13
    Join Date : Aug 2015
    Maine
    Posts : 36,485
    Windows10Pro 64Bit
    Thread Starter

    Quote Originally Posted by Word Man View Post
    Well, OldMike, if it's any solace, you won't see that 4th, the MSR, in Disk Management...
    If I have MY way Word Man, I won't see ANY GPT partitions at all.....
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  4.    18 Sep 2015 #14
    Join Date : Jul 2015
    Posts : 9,148
    Windows 10 Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by Word Man View Post
    Well, OldMike, if it's any solace, you won't see that 4th unallocated gap (not a partition in the usual sense), the MSR, in Disk Management...
    And that, to me, is even worse. If it is there for a reason, I want to see it!
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  5.    18 Sep 2015 #15
    Join Date : Aug 2015
    Penn's Woods
    Posts : 1,182
    Windows 10 Home

    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLCDR View Post
    And that, to me, is even worse. If it is there for a reason, I want to see it!
    Agreed. I still had the funniness of Disk Management showing duplicate partition entries in the table above the graphic in my Win10 Upgraded system. As I understand it, Disk Management is not entirely "up to snuff" on GPT disks. Of course, this problem went away when I blew all partitions away during the clean install and my 7 partitions was reduced to 3 plus the MSR.

    At this point my Macrium Reflect scheduled monthly full, weekly differential, and daily incremental imaging would be my first resort and I have looking at going without recovery partitions. etc., to the extent possible (staying with GPT) on my bucket list.
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  6.    18 Sep 2015 #16
    Join Date : Oct 2013
    Penns Forrest
    Posts : 3,506
    Win_8.1-Pro, Win_10.1607-Pro, Mint_17.3

    Quote Originally Posted by OldMike65 View Post
    Ok 1st off, thanks for the reply. That's what I was worried about, the EFI bios I would assume IS what this new computer has.
    Computer is a HP Envy Phoenix 810-160 with Intel i7 4770 3.4GHz processor.

    Your comment on the GPT using only 3 partitions is interesting, because from what I've seen on some of these forums, with people showing pic's of their partitions, which are GPT, they looked really messed up!!!! lot more than 3 partitions!! But lets say that's all that is needed 3 partitions, is one of these partitions a recovery partition??? Which I don't need or want. Because of the bios being EFI do I HAVE to have the recovery partition ??? Also on the pic's of seen on here, of the GPT partitions, one was a FAT partition!!! Why in the world would GPT need a fat partition??? Or was this just a screw up from the user??
    First, there is no such thing as EFI BIOS - firmware is either UEFI (EFI was depreciated in 2005, although people (even Intel) still refer to EFI) or BIOS. That's just the code to get the hardware up and running.

    The EFI System partition (ESP) must be FAT - that's just how it works. For one thing, it allows other OSes to boot.

    Do you need the Recovery partition - if you created a Recovery Drive then no you don't NEED it. You can forget about booting into advanced startup (troubleshoot, refresh, reset, .....) if you don't have it. You'll have to boot to the Recovery Drive you created. The OEM Recovery part - I make Recovery media and then remove that partition - some people want to keep it around.

    I don't understand the apprehension people have over GPT - it's just a disk partitioning technology. It was developed as part of the UEFI standard to overcome the limitations of MBR.
    Configure UEFI/GPT-Based Hard Drive Partitions
    Windows and GPT FAQ - Windows 10 hardware dev

    UEFI celebrated it's 10th anniversary this year, so it's not exactly new technology. GPT has been in common use since 2010, although not widespread use - probably because people don't see any advantage.

    For me - just removing the 4 partition limitation is a huge advantage. Large drives can easily be partitioned into smaller chunks (easier maintenance and more even use of the space ... how many times does the head fly out past a huge C: drive?) Partitioning the drive to store data further out on the disk allows me to put ISOs, System images and other non-essential files far away from every day program access. Other more frequently used data is stored closer to the head access and everyday data (Docs, Music, Pics, Video) are stored closest to the system partition. I don't need my drive working hard to get past seldom used files just to find frequently used files. But that can also be accomplished with a MBR initialized drive using an extended partition and logical drives. The advantage is that you don't have to muck about creating the extended partition.

    GPT has a bit of redundancy and is going to be the standard moving forward.
    The disk schema (WinRE, EFI, MSR, WinPart, Recovery) straightens out some of the mess (System Reserve - System Part + Recovery or WinPart + Recovery) ... the word Recovery itself is a bit confusing. There's Windows Recovery Environment (WinRE), OEM Recovery, and Windows OS Recovery. They can all be munged together or separated depending on the OEM or inidiviaul who establishes the schema.

    Each partition as a specific function under GPT. Sure you can create a proper disk schema with MBR, but Windows creates the proper schema if your system is UEFI based and you clean install. OEMs .... maybe, but I've seen a whole slew of screwy OEM disk schemas.

    You can partition the disk however you want - one huge Win partition or OS and a few data partitions to level the seek access times.

    In the end, I defer to the firmware and the OS. If your firmware is UEFI, you'll get a GPT initialized disk on a clean Windows install. If your firmware is BIOS, you'll get an MBR initialized disk on a clean Windows install.

    Why not let the OS decide what it wants based on the firmware? You really shouldn't even notice the difference unless you need to dig really deep into the disk structure.
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  7.    24 Sep 2015 #17
    Join Date : Aug 2015
    Maine
    Posts : 36,485
    Windows10Pro 64Bit
    Thread Starter

    Ok folks, after thinking about which partition format I will use on this new computer I have decided to keep the GPT partitions.
    I have already cleaned up one of the partitions, D-drive. Now I want to clean up the C-drive and remove at least 1 of the 2 recovery partitions. I of them is about 1gig!!!!! I am using MiniTool, I am not sure which partitions I MUST have, and which ones I can remove safely I will post a screen shot, and listen to anyone's thoughts. Thanks.


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  8.    24 Sep 2015 #18
    Join Date : Aug 2015
    Maine
    Posts : 36,485
    Windows10Pro 64Bit
    Thread Starter

    Ok, got tired of waiting for any answers, so just starting playing with MiniTool. I removed the 2 recovery partitions, removing the one at the end, was simple and easy. Removing the recovery partition at the front, was very tricky.
    Had to change positions of the fat partition, and apply change, then copy the 128meg partition in front of the recovery partition I wanted to remove, then apply that change. Finally got to the point where I could delete that recovery partition and extend my primary drive partition. I gained over a gig and a half of hard drive space for my primary partition which is an SSD. Computer seems to even boot faster than ever now. restart is about 24 sec's.


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  9.    24 Sep 2015 #19
    Join Date : Aug 2015
    Maine
    Posts : 36,485
    Windows10Pro 64Bit
    Thread Starter

    Only thing I still have a question on is that 128meg partition?? Now says its unformatted, where before it did not?? It also said it was a GPT reserved, now it says NONE?? But system boots fine, don't see any problems, yet. Should I leave everything alone now, or try to make some kind of change to that 128MB partition???
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  10.    24 Sep 2015 #20
    Join Date : Jun 2015
    San Antonio, TX
    Posts : 2,346
    MS Windows 10 Pro - Perm Activation of 10585

    Quote Originally Posted by OldMike65 View Post
    Only thing I still have a question on is that 128meg partition?? Now says its unformatted, where before it did not?? It also said it was a GPT reserved, now it says NONE?? But system boots fine, don't see any problems, yet. Should I leave everything alone now, or try to make some kind of change to that 128MB partition???
    Mike and all

    Thanks for all you post about GPT, MBR and any info about the working of partitions and why some HD have more partitions than others. please keep posting we are reading and learning... Cliff M.
    Last edited by acmanten; 24 Sep 2015 at 13:55.
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