"New" PC crashes: No video signal,no Bluescreen, no Event Viewer entry  

I forgot to recommend that you install the new windows on the same hdd/ssd as the main installation. If you installed it on a different hdd/sdd it's not quite comparative...

PiKo said:

Is BIOS up to date?

I don't know, how do I find that out? As in: How do I find out which BIOS version I have, and which is current?

itsme1 said:

I forgot to recommend that you install the new windows on the same hdd/ssd as the main installation. If you installed it on a different hdd/sdd it's not quite comparative...

Well considering the main OS is installed on a M2.SSD with only 500 GB, half being currently full atm, this did only leave me with installation to the hard drive instead of the M2.SSD.

Both have now crashed in (mostly) the same way though. So I guess that renders that point moot.

NTN said:

Does it crash or is more like it is freezing (the clock on taskbar also freeze..)?
If so it could be the GPU...perhaps.

The entire screen freezes up, the music also freezes on the last "note" being played, and then after a few seconds the screen goes to black, "no video signal". "Writing to disk" light no longer flickers. Ventilation still runs. PC does not shut off by itself, I have to turn it off myself.

Also see the video of a crash I recorded in the first post of the topic.



Incidentally, I managed to record that crash shortly after bootup, with analysis tools open.

This is the moment it froze up and crashed on during the regular bootup today, on the fresh Windows installation:



(The PC had previously crashed on the stress test, restarted, then I turned it off after a few minutes of checking some screenshots, and left off for 1 hour. Then I booted it up again and it crashed after 4.5 minutes. Didn't crash since then, though... not yet.)






One more question/curiosity (sorry for longwinded text, it's late, I'm not good at text-compression when I'm tired):

A few days ago, I did the same / same...ish crash stress test (on my primary Windows that time), where it didn't crash. After the PC just taking it like a champ for ~10 minutes, I stopped the test, did some minor stuff, then turned the PC off for 20 minutes.

When I booted it back up again, it crashed during login. Then it crashed again later the same evening. Then again when I was heading to bed and realized "oh I forgot something, let me boot up my PC real quick".

But then NO crashes for several days (though by that point I was using the fresh Windows installation instead).



Today I ran the same crash stress test (on the fresh Windows install this time), and it crashed. Rebooted, didn't crash. Turned it off. Left it off for 1 hour, turned it on - crash in 5 minutes.

My question is this - isn't it suspicious that the "random" crashes happened on days when I did a stress test? Even if I wasn't stress testing the PC anymore at that moment?



_____________________________________________________________________________________________

I really don't know if it makes sense to send my PC into repair. I checked the Event Viewer, and noticed it crashed "only" 30 - 35 times in the previous 6 months. Don't have data for before that, it auto-deleted that info.

Now again, this already was happening when the PC was new, I just didn't really know if it was anything serious and had ... to deal with other things.

I don't think it really got any worse since the start? As in, in frequency. Perhaps a bit more often the last month, but that's probably because I've been stress testing the PC several times.



The question really is: Is it going to get worse than this? because if not, and so far crashes didn't seem to change in frequency, then I can work with this.

And: Is it the motherboard itself? Because that of course is the most expensive and tedious component to replace if it breaks.

Or maybe this is a quirk of this particular custom built PC? (Again, this is my first custom-ordered PC.) Maybe some component isn't quite interacting right with the others, but none of them are actually damaged, maybe if all components were swapped with an identical model, the same issue would occur?

I know in my bones that it has something to do with the GPU and the settings there. Here is a good article from an author who often contributes a lot of useful information.
How to fix AMD Driver Timeout Issue on Windows?

Much good in the whole article, but especially in the last bit, I think the most relevant is in relation to your situation:
Increase the Power Limit of the Card
and
Edit the System’s Registry
(TdrDelay)

The picture is from my PC, but the phenomenon of the timeout issue applies to both AMD and NVIDIA cards. I therefore recommend trying the values ​​that I use(TdrDelay and TdrDiDelay).....these have been like this for years with me without causing any problems.
From the article:
"If due to a glitch, the driver is taking too much time to respond to the OS, then it may result in the timeout issue at hand. In such a case, increasing the wait time of the OS (i.e., TdrDelay) may solve the problem."
Attachment 383587

The Power Plan in the PC should also be a "High Performance" plan.

I don't know, how do I find that out? As in: How do I find out which BIOS version I have, and which is current?

Bios info and how to flash a Bios should be given in de documentation of the motherboard.
You might download and install Speccy64, which gives you detailed info about your PC components. It provides also your Bios version.
Normal procedure is not to update your Bios when everything works fine. But in your case it might be different. Manufacturers provide updates in most cases to solve issues.
So try to find out whether a new version is available for your motherboard.
I do not know whether the next link is fully compatible with your particular motherboard:
B450M-A PRO MAX | Motherboard | MSI Global
In case there is an update, look to the version history.
Flashing a Bios is not a sinecure. You can do it yourself (dont make mistakes) or you may ask a computer shop to do it for you.

HedgeToaster said:

redacted

This really should have been posted in the BSOD forum, as it did produce a dump file (you linked it in your post). Likely would have been resolved sooner.

Anywho.......

Your wireless usb device badly needs its driver updated. It's trying to read memory that cant be read. 99% its the driver, 1% you have bad memory. Please see highlighted portions below.

4: kd> !analyze -v
*******************************************************************************
* *
* Bugcheck Analysis *
* *
*******************************************************************************

SYSTEM_THREAD_EXCEPTION_NOT_HANDLED_M (1000007e)
This is a very common bugcheck. Usually the exception address pinpoints
the driver/function that caused the problem. Always note this address
as well as the link date of the driver/image that contains this address.
Some common problems are exception code 0x80000003. This means a hard
coded breakpoint or assertion was hit, but this system was booted
/NODEBUG. This is not supposed to happen as developers should never have
hardcoded breakpoints in retail code, but ...
If this happens, make sure a debugger gets connected, and the
system is booted /DEBUG. This will let us see why this breakpoint is
happening.
Arguments:
Arg1: ffffffffc0000005, The exception code that was not handled
Arg2: fffff801640fd5c3, The address that the exception occurred at
Arg3: fffff5806f3a1768, Exception Record Address
Arg4: fffff5806f3a0fb0, Context Record Address

Debugging Details:
------------------

*** WARNING: Unable to verify timestamp for fwuac430mu.sys
*** WARNING: Unable to verify timestamp for win32k.sys

KEY_VALUES_STRING: 1

Key : AV.Dereference
Value: NullClassPtr

Key : AV.Fault
Value: Read

Key : Analysis.CPU.mSec
Value: 2921

Key : Analysis.DebugAnalysisManager
Value: Create

Key : Analysis.Elapsed.mSec
Value: 42831

Key : Analysis.Init.CPU.mSec
Value: 890

Key : Analysis.Init.Elapsed.mSec
Value: 12891

Key : Analysis.Memory.CommitPeak.Mb
Value: 79

Key : WER.OS.Branch
Value: 19h1_release

Key : WER.OS.Timestamp
Value: 2019-03-18T12:02:00Z

Key : WER.OS.Version
Value: 10.0.18362.1


BUGCHECK_CODE: 7e

BUGCHECK_P1: ffffffffc0000005

BUGCHECK_P2: fffff801640fd5c3

BUGCHECK_P3: fffff5806f3a1768

BUGCHECK_P4: fffff5806f3a0fb0

EXCEPTION_RECORD: fffff5806f3a1768 -- (.exr 0xfffff5806f3a1768)
ExceptionAddress: fffff801640fd5c3 (fwuac430mu+0x000000000004d5c3)
ExceptionCode: c0000005 (Access violation)
ExceptionFlags: 00000000
NumberParameters: 2
Parameter[0]: 0000000000000000
Parameter[1]: 0000000000000008
Attempt to read from address 0000000000000008

CONTEXT: fffff5806f3a0fb0 -- (.cxr 0xfffff5806f3a0fb0)
rax=0000000000000000 rbx=0000000000000000 rcx=ffffd509812ade68
rdx=0000000000000000 rsi=ffffd509902a3001 rdi=ffffd509812ade68
rip=fffff801640fd5c3 rsp=fffff5806f3a19a0 rbp=0000000000000000
r8=0000000000000000 r9=0000000000000139 r10=0000000000000007
r11=0000000000000001 r12=0000000000000000 r13=ffffd509812ade68
r14=ffffd50988802030 r15=ffffd509812add70
iopl=0 nv up ei pl zr na po nc
cs=0010 ss=0018 ds=002b es=002b fs=0053 gs=002b efl=00050246
fwuac430mu+0x4d5c3:
fffff801`640fd5c3 488b7008 mov rsi,qword ptr [rax+8] ds:002b:00000000`00000008=????????????????
Resetting default scope

BLACKBOXBSD: 1 (!blackboxbsd)


BLACKBOXNTFS: 1 (!blackboxntfs)


BLACKBOXPNP: 1 (!blackboxpnp)


BLACKBOXWINLOGON: 1

PROCESS_NAME: System

READ_ADDRESS: fffff801541713b8: Unable to get MiVisibleState
Unable to get NonPagedPoolStart
Unable to get NonPagedPoolEnd
Unable to get PagedPoolStart
Unable to get PagedPoolEnd
unable to get nt!MmSpecialPagesInUse
0000000000000008

ERROR_CODE: (NTSTATUS) 0xc0000005 - The instruction at 0x%p referenced memory at 0x%p. The memory could not be %s.

EXCEPTION_CODE_STR: c0000005

EXCEPTION_PARAMETER1: 0000000000000000

EXCEPTION_PARAMETER2: 0000000000000008

EXCEPTION_STR: 0xc0000005

STACK_TEXT:
fffff580`6f3a19a0 00000000`00000000 : ffffd509`88802030 00000000`00000000 fffff801`640cfad4 00000000`00000100 : fwuac430mu+0x4d5c3


SYMBOL_NAME: fwuac430mu+4d5c3

MODULE_NAME: fwuac430mu

IMAGE_NAME: fwuac430mu.sys

STACK_COMMAND: .cxr 0xfffff5806f3a0fb0 ; kb

BUCKET_ID_FUNC_OFFSET: 4d5c3

FAILURE_BUCKET_ID: AV_fwuac430mu!unknown_function

OS_VERSION: 10.0.18362.1

BUILDLAB_STR: 19h1_release

OSPLATFORM_TYPE: x64

OSNAME: Windows 10

FAILURE_ID_HASH: {19ebe949-5fec-43c5-f846-9a68a6f618e6}

Followup: MachineOwner
---------

4: kd> .exr 0xfffff5806f3a1768
ExceptionAddress: fffff801640fd5c3 (fwuac430mu+0x000000000004d5c3)
ExceptionCode: c0000005 (Access violation)
ExceptionFlags: 00000000
NumberParameters: 2
Parameter[0]: 0000000000000000
Parameter[1]: 0000000000000008
Attempt to read from address 0000000000000008

4: kd> lmvm fwuac430mu
Browse full module list
start end module name
fffff801`640b0000 fffff801`643c3000 fwuac430mu T (no symbols)
Loaded symbol image file: fwuac430mu.sys
Image path: \SystemRoot\system32\DRIVERS\fwuac430mu.sys
Image name: fwuac430mu.sys
Browse all global symbols functions data
Timestamp: Thu Nov 16 05:25:09 2017 (5A0D91B5)
CheckSum: 001F25A3
ImageSize: 00313000
Translations: 0000.04b0 0000.04e4 0409.04b0 0409.04e4
Information from resource tables:

NTN said:

I know in my bones that it has something to do with the GPU and the settings there. Here is a good article from an author who often contributes a lot of useful information.

I admit I quickly glossed over the article for now (lots of stuff to do today, 'cause if I do send the PC away I'd basically have to do that probabably tomorrow-ish so it arrives by Saturday).

But two quick questions:
Would this explain why it most often crashes shortly after bootup?
Would this explain why, more recently, it seemed to crash more on the days when I did the heavy stress test - but even when I wasn't running the stress test anymore, but had left the PC turned off for 20 - 60 minutes and then it crashed on bootup?

PiKo said:

I do not know whether the next link is fully compatible with your particular motherboard:
B450M-A PRO MAX | Motherboard | MSI Global
In case there is an update, look to the version history.
Flashing a Bios is not a sinecure. You can do it yourself (dont make mistakes) or you may ask a computer shop to do it for you.

I have: B450-A PRO MAX (MS-7B86) (AM4)
The page sais: B450M-A PRO MAX

Don't know if that's the exact same one, but if it is, this is what Speccy sais:

Brand American Megatrends Inc.
Version M.50
Date 07/11/2019

Which is clearly not the latest version on B450M-A PRO MAX | Motherboard | MSI Global

tomdsr said:

This really should have been posted in the BSOD forum, as it did produce a dump file (you linked it in your post). Likely would have been resolved sooner.

Sorry. That memory dump (the only one time that a "black screen" crash ever managed to do a memory dump instead of just cutting Windows off entirely) happened before I realized I had never installed the msi and AMD drivers (CPU, GPU, motherboard) on Windows, and as such I assumed that it was rendered obsolete or possibly an unconnected incident.

tomdsr said:

Your wireless usb device badly needs its driver updated. It's trying to read memory that cant be read.

I do have a wireless keyboard & mouse, connected with a wireless USB receiver, if that is what you're talking about.

I do have a USB-connected Fritz-WLAN stick if that is what you mean - and come to think of it, even on the fresh Windows installation, that sometimes seems to briefly disconnect and reconnect itself (as signified by a 'USB disconnect' noise, and about maybe ~30 seconds drop in my internet connection).

However, there once also was a black screen crash on bootup when all USB devices were disconnected, where the only connected things were the monitor and the PS/2 keyboard.
(In fact there's a video of that crash happening in the first post, though it probably isn't interested to watch in this case, as all that happens is that Windows boots up to desktop, I press a few buttons on my keyboard, then suddenly the screen goes black, no video signal.)

HedgeToaster said:

I admit I quickly glossed over the article for now (lots of stuff to do today, 'cause if I do send the PC away I'd basically have to do that probabably tomorrow-ish so it arrives by Saturday).

But two quick questions:
Would this explain why it most often crashes shortly after bootup?
Would this explain why, more recently, it seemed to crash more on the days when I did the heavy stress test - but even when I wasn't running the stress test anymore, but had left the PC turned off for 20 - 60 minutes and then it crashed on bootup?








I have: B450-A PRO MAX (MS-7B86) (AM4)
The page sais: B450M-A PRO MAX

Don't know if that's the exact same one, but if it is, this is what Speccy sais:



Which is clearly not the latest version on B450M-A PRO MAX | Motherboard | MSI Global








Sorry. That memory dump (the only one time that a "black screen" crash ever managed to do a memory dump instead of just cutting Windows off entirely) happened before I realized I had never installed the msi and AMD drivers (CPU, GPU, motherboard) on Windows, and as such I assumed that it was rendered obsolete or possibly an unconnected incident.




I do have a wireless keyboard & mouse, connected with a wireless USB receiver, if that is what you're talking about.

I do have a USB-connected Fritz-WLAN stick if that is what you mean - and come to think of it, even on the fresh Windows installation, that sometimes seems to briefly disconnect and reconnect itself (as signified by a 'USB disconnect' noise, and about maybe ~30 seconds drop in my internet connection).

However, there once also was a black screen crash on bootup when all USB devices were disconnected, where the only connected things were the monitor and the PS/2 keyboard.
(In fact there's a video of that crash happening in the first post, though it probably isn't interested to watch in this case, as all that happens is that Windows boots up to desktop, I press a few buttons on my keyboard, then suddenly the screen goes black, no video signal.)

Sorry, i should have been more clear. The Fritz-WLAN is what i meant. Even with it unplugged, its still going to load its driver so its ready when plugged in

Ref:
But two quick questions:
Would this explain why it most often crashes shortly after bootup?
Would this explain why, more recently, it seemed to crash more on the days when I did the heavy stress test - but even when I wasn't running the stress test anymore, but had left the PC turned off for 20 - 60 minutes and then it crashed on bootup?

Heavy Background Process could trigger TDR failure. A bootup is always a heavy process for the whole PC, with a lot of start ups of apps and programs.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The default timeout period in Windows Vista and later operating systems is 2 seconds. If the GPU cannot complete or preempt the current task within the TDR timeout period, the OS diagnoses that the GPU is frozen.

To prevent timeout detection from occurring, hardware vendors should ensure that graphics operations (that is, direct memory access (DMA) buffer completion) take no more than 2 seconds in end-user scenarios such as productivity and game play.
https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/wi...n-and-recovery


Why does the GPU driver crash ?
In order to prevent any rendering or GPU computation from locking up the system, the Windows operating system kills the GPU driver whenever a rendering takes more than a few seconds. When the driver is killed, the application using it crashes automatically. It is not possible to know how long a rendering task or a computation may take (it depends on the GPU, the drivers, the OS, the mesh size, the texture size, etc.), therefore it is not possible to put a limit on how much the computer should process and avoid the crash from the application level.

On Windows there is a registry key specifying how long the OS should wait before killing the GPU driver. Application are not authorized to modify this setting directly, this procedure has to be done manually (see below).
GPU drivers crash with long computations (TDR crash) | Substance 3D Painter

Also see:
[GUIDE] Windows 10 / 11 solutions for eGPU BSOD, crashing, freezing and stuttering – (Link State Power Mgmt, Nvidia Power Mgmt, TdrDelay & TdrDdiDelay, Disable iGPU/dGPU, Disable DynamickTick, Disable Nvidia Resizable BAR) | Thunderbolt Windows eGPU
9 Fixes to Display Driver Stopped Responding and Has Recovered
https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/wi...-registry-keys
How To Fix The Video TDR Failure on Windows 10

NTN said:

>Would this explain why it most often crashes shortly after bootup?

Heavy Background Process could trigger TDR failure. A bootup is always a heavy process for the whole PC, with a lot of start ups of apps and programs.

Hmm. Oh a fresh Windows install? I mean okay, I did have to install a few programs, but I didn't go overboard with it. Can't look up what's on autostart there atm unfortunately, I'm on my primary Windows right now and can't switch at the moment.

tomdsr said:

Sorry, i should have been more clear. The Fritz-WLAN is what i meant. Even with it unplugged, its still going to load its driver so its ready when plugged in

Hmm. Very obviously, that was one of the first things I installed on the new Windows, to get my internet connection up.

HedgeToaster said:

Hmm. Oh a fresh Windows install? I mean okay, I did have to install a few programs, but I didn't go overboard with it. Can't look up what's on autostart there atm unfortunately, I'm on my primary Windows right now and can't switch at the moment.





Hmm. Very obviously, that was one of the first things I installed on the new Windows, to get my internet connection up.

Does it have a newer driver?