Desperately Looking for Mobo LGA 1151 that has at least HDMI 2.0a

bobkn · 28 Oct 2020

HDCP 2.1? I haven't seen that. I don't recall the minimum version required for 1080p (HD) video. 1.1, maybe? I suppose that it wasn't nice of them to make 2.0 and 2.1 not forwards compatible with 2.2. I wonder whether 2.2 will have the same issue with 2.3? (Not that I have any 2.3 devices.)

There is an LG player that is supposed to support M-Disc BDXL. It's the WH14NS40.AVAU10B. It's cheaper than the WH16NS60. It apparently needs a nonstandard firmware to do 4k stuff, though.

I don't know what the longevity of a burned BDXL (not M-Disc) is. I hope that it's more than a year. I wonder whether consumer drives will be available in 50 years? I guess the grandkids could take the discs to a service. The old shoebox full of photo prints had its advantages.

I think that the modern technique is to put everything into the cloud. (Might not be a good idea for Anthony Weiner.)

I recall being surprised a about 12 years ago when a co-worker ordered an old recording from Deutsche Gramophone. It was obviously a burned CD. I guess that they were doing burn-on-demand discs at the time. I haven't contacted him since tof discover whether it had any longevity issues.

kokodin · 29 Oct 2020

but isn't it that the disc itself dictates what hdcp version player and screen combo should use?
we had this problem last week on streem when bunchh of guys couldn't figure out why capture card see xbox but blacks out when you try to play blurey disc. it was the content of the copy of the movie that was protected and player and capture card were working with each other fine over hdmi 1,4

CerebralFreeze · 29 Oct 2020

koko,

I don't think so. I think it's the device. The current Asus player was able to read Blu-ray 4k content about 2 years or so ago. Then, they upgraded the firmware and no more reading ability. So, it's not the content. It's the device itself I think. That is really M.E.S.S.E.D U.P.

They are just making you re-buy all their devices. It's just a complete waste of money. What are we supposed to do with our old devices? They are all in good condition. Mine are all almost exactly 2 years old. So many people's devices are simply not going to work because one device in the chain is not HDCP 2.2 and people are going to yell, scream and get frustrated when they don't know why it doesn't work.

kokodin said:

but isn't it that the disc itself dictates what hdcp version player and screen combo should use?
we had this problem last week on streem when bunchh of guys couldn't figure out why capture card see xbox but blacks out when you try to play blurey disc. it was the content of the copy of the movie that was protected and player and capture card were working with each other fine over hdmi 1,4

- - - Updated - - -

Bob,

You know your stuff. You're totally right. I checked and I have HDCP 1.4. Then, I guess it goes to HDCP 2.2. You're also probably right about regular blurays. I'm sure it lasts more than a year but who knows for how long, right?

To continue my rant, I have the Benq PV3200PT and it's 2 years old and I paid $1400 for it which is a lot of money for a monitor. I have to throw it out. Same thing with my graphics card, motherboard, and CPU. That is about $4k they are making me throw away and re-spend just so I can watch 4k content. It's really, really shady. There is no reason why my Benq PV3200PT shouldn't be able to play 4k content. Via DP, it can play 3840x2160 at 60Hz so what is the problem? There is no reason why Intel shouldn't make their chips play 4k via DP connections but why should they if they want to make huge profits? Make their chips only work with HDMI 2.0a so you are forced to upgrade all your hardware.

Cloud Storage. TLDR: They seem very unreliable.

By the way, I had really bad experiences with the cloud. Here is what happened. I first used to pay for Crashplan and then Google Drive. They both screwed me. The biggest loss is when I lost all my business accounting data for several years. I tried to locate all the bookkeeping, my commercial mortgage agreements and stuff like that and it was gone forever. The Rule of Three didn't work because I screwed up. My 1st copy failed because I accidentally erased and rewrote over about 3 years of data by mistake. So, I went to Crashplan to get a backup copy. Couldn't retrieve it. Retrieval failed. (This actually happens pretty frequently in my experience with Crashplan. Maybe 1 out of 5 times?)

So, I checked my physical discs that I am supposed to make every year. I guess I got lazy and forgot a year or two or I simply couldn't find it in my backup box full of discs. The data was gone forever and it was a huge pain in the butt that still affects me today.

With respect to Google Drive, I didn't notice the following failure until months went by. When I work, I save documents in my downloads folder and then later put them in a folder tree which was in my Google Drive. Then I would forget about them until I would need it maybe a week or months later. One day, I noticed something peculiar. I usually moved several documents to Google Drive all at once, like at the end of the day. One day, I just happened to go back to one of the folders after moving several files. I noticed that one of the documents I had just moved wasn't there anymore. It never had saved. And, it was gone permanently since I moved, not copied it from my downloads folder. Also, a backup copy was never made because my Macrium Reflect makes a backup copy of everything at night. I couldn't believe it.

I then paid attention and noticed that this was happening all the time. Google Drive occasionally wouldn't save a document when I moved several at once. I never noticed this before because since I saw it move there, I naturally thought it was saved. And, since I wouldn't use the document right away that day, I never noticed that it had disappeared. I would eventually forget that I even created the document in the first place. Ultimately, I don't know how many documents that got lost this way. I'll never know how much work I was doing all over again. There were times when I knew that I created something but I couldn't find it. I thought I must have just misplaced it. Now, I know what happened. I got Googled.

I see it like this with cloud storage. They don't use anything different than what we use, right? They are using hard drives just like us. It's enterprise level but still hard drives. And, hard drives that are constantly reading and writing will lead to early failure, no? So, I'm not surprised that Crashplan and Google Drive were so unreliable. I bet users don't even realize that small parts of their data disappear. How can they know if a few documents are missing? They probably think that they must have misplaced it just like I did.

This is why I'm never going to use cloud again.

I keep all my data on my SSD now without Google Drive. I then use Resilio Sync (which I admit is so glitchy) to do instantaneous backups to a network drive. Then, use Macrium Reflect to backup nightly. At the end of the year, I backup to Blu-ray blanks.

I got the Pioneer solely to backup to M-Discs because I'm afraid of regular Blu-rays. The ability to play 4k discs were supposed to be a bonus but it appears that it's really not since I have to replace nearly all the hardware on my computer that I spent so much time building. ☹

Ok, I'll see ya' later. I'm going to go cry now.

bobkn said:

HDCP 2.1? I haven't seen that. I don't recall the minimum version required for 1080p (HD) video. 1.1, maybe? I suppose that it wasn't nice of them to make 2.0 and 2.1 not forwards compatible with 2.2. I wonder whether 2.2 will have the same issue with 2.3? (Not that I have any 2.3 devices.)

There is an LG player that is supposed to support M-Disc BDXL. It's the WH14NS40.AVAU10B. It's cheaper than the WH16NS60. It apparently needs a nonstandard firmware to do 4k stuff, though.

I don't know what the longevity of a burned BDXL (not M-Disc) is. I hope that it's more than a year. I wonder whether consumer drives will be available in 50 years? I guess the grandkids could take the discs to a service. The old shoebox full of photo prints had its advantages.

I think that the modern technique is to put everything into the cloud. (Might not be a good idea for Anthony Weiner.)

I recall being surprised a about 12 years ago when a co-worker ordered an old recording from Deutsche Gramophone. It was obviously a burned CD. I guess that they were doing burn-on-demand discs at the time. I haven't contacted him since tof discover whether it had any longevity issues.

bobkn · 29 Oct 2020

You don't intend to use a discrete graphics card? An nVidia GT 1030 or GTX 1650 would provide HDMI 2.0b, and wouldn't be expensive. I'm unfamilar with the AMD offerings.

Sorry that you bought an expensive monitor two years ago, but that it was an HDMI 1.4 device. I just got a Samsung LU28R550UQNXZA: UHD/HDR, 60 Hz, IPS, probably not suitable for graphic professionals. $350. I used it to replace an older Samsung 4k monitor, which was one of the earliest mass-market ones to support that resolution at 60Hz (but only over DP, as it was an HDMI 1.4 device).

HDCP is an annoyance at best. At least in the TV universe, there are hardware hacks (Home | HDFury.com | Connect and Fix everything in HDMI) that work around that, but I unaware of similar devices that support Display Port. It may be possible to kludge up something using an HDMI product plus DP to HDMI and HDMI to DP adapters (the second one may have to be active), but that would be messy.

CerebralFreeze · 29 Oct 2020

Bob,

Damn you! How come you are always right?

I have an EVGA GTX 1080 and I just looked it up. It has HDMI 2.0b and I guess HDCP doesn't apply to it. I didn't know because I have to get a new mobo so the Pioneer doesn't work yet. I just assumed that I had to get a new graphics card as well.

You really know your stuff. So, it looks like I have to replace my monitor, CPU, motherboard, and possibly power supply (I have a 750W). That's about $2.5k. I guess not as bad as $4k but still a waste of a lot of money...

With the monitor, I think I literally waited like 3 years for a monitor to come out that was at least 30 inches and could handle 4k and didn't have awful reviews. It was the only 4k monitor at that time that was over 30'' that had decent reviews.

I would love to get the Dell UP3218k but it's way past my budget. I know there isn't a lot content that can take advantage of its awesome features like dynamic HDR but it's the first monitor that has resolution that equals human eye resolution.

I really believe that the industry should totally skip 4k. Just go straight onto 8k. Everyone should stubbornly not buy 4k and just wait so sellers don't commit manufacturing it. It would save money all around. I admit that it'll be tough for manufacturers to go without revenue for that long while committing R&D dollars to 8k but I think it's the best course of action.

8k is just soooo much better. Dynamic HDR, human eye resolution, 120 Hz. 4k just gives you simply a little bit more resolution than 1080p, no?

bobkn said:

You don't intend to use a discrete graphics card? An nVidia GT 1030 or GTX 1650 would provide HDMI 2.0b, and wouldn't be expensive. I'm unfamilar with the AMD offerings.

Sorry that you bought an expensive monitor two years ago, but that it was an HDMI 1.4 device. I just got a Samsung LU28R550UQNXZA: UHD/HDR, 60 Hz, IPS, probably not suitable for graphic professionals. $350. I used it to replace an older Samsung 4k monitor, which was one of the earliest mass-market ones to support that resolution at 60Hz (but only over DP, as it was an HDMI 1.4 device).

HDCP is an annoyance at best. At least in the TV universe, there are hardware hacks (Home | HDFury.com | Connect and Fix everything in HDMI) that work around that, but I unaware of similar devices that support Display Port. It may be possible to kludge up something using an HDMI product plus DP to HDMI and HDMI to DP adapters (the second one may have to be active), but that would be messy.

bobkn · 29 Oct 2020

Always right? I wish.

The GTX 1080 suports HDCP 2.2. I didn't see it in the nVidia specs, but a quick web search shows multiple confirmations.

The nVidia control panel checks for HDCP compatibility, but it doesn't say which version is detected.

My 2080 Super supports HDCP over DP as well as HDMI. I imagine that the 1080 does so too, although I'm not sure. I habitually use a DP connection.

I'm glad I don't need a monitor larger than 30". If I did, I might go with a Dell Ultrasharp 31.5". Merely $800. Not a professional monitor for the graphics arts, although I suspect some may ues it that way (after calibration).

I think that rather than replacing all that stuff, I'd lose the Pioneer drive and just go with an LG or one of the other branded models actually made by LG. Some of them support M-Disc BDXL. It makes no sense (IMHO) to spend a small fortune to support a <$200 optical drive.

Does the Pioneer allow UHD BD movie play out of the box? That feature seems to have been removed from newer firmware of the LG based drives. Mine is hacked (old firmware), even though I have minimal interest in watching movies on my PC.

bobkn · 31 Oct 2020

I see that Cyberlink PowerDVD 20Ultra player software requires the Intel SGX extensions. (4K Video Player Software | PowerDVD Requirements | CyberLink) That may be partly what's driving the CPU/motherboard requirements.

I guess that SGX is an additional layer of digital copy protection.

Other software (DVD Fab Player 6 Ultra) doesn't need SGX, but it needs a "UHD Friendly" drive. For the LG family, apparently that means old firmware. The Pioneer BDR-212UBK isn't on the list, with any firmware.

I wonder when the Intellectual Property Rights police reached out to the drive manufacturers and had them remove (or at least complicate) UHD playback protection from their drives?

I may have to buy a spare LG drive, in case my current one dies. (Based on past experience that's fairly likely. Cheap, but no especialy robust.)

CerebralFreeze · 14 Nov 2020

You definitely know your stuff. I really mean it. You actually picked out the Dell monitor that I had bought previously 2 years ago and returned. I forget but something was wrong with it.

You should really give a larger monitor a try if you work with documents. Putting 2 pages next to each other makes a huge improvement in productivity.

Why the Pioneer? It's because it's the only one that does M-Discs in 100 gigs. I have 2 Tb of family videos/photos and business data that I need backed up and I want to know will definitely last decades.

Your LG actually also allows playing 4k now. You need basically the same requirements as the Pioneer though. HDMI 2.0a and HDCP 2.2. The SGX is only a requirement I think if you have if you have a lower 200 series motherboard.

I would suggest that you get the Pioneer based upon current info. Things might change though. There are 3 manufacturers: Asus, LG, and Pioneer. The Asus seems to have the best history of quality but you never know what's going to happen from here on out. The Pioneer might be underpriced right now. The Pioneer 211UBK actually is selling at a higher price even though the 212UBK is exactly the same drive except it can do all the 4k stuff. Major arbitrage.

bobkn said:

Always right? I wish.

The GTX 1080 suports HDCP 2.2. I didn't see it in the nVidia specs, but a quick web search shows multiple confirmations.

The nVidia control panel checks for HDCP compatibility, but it doesn't say which version is detected.

My 2080 Super supports HDCP over DP as well as HDMI. I imagine that the 1080 does so too, although I'm not sure. I habitually use a DP connection.

I'm glad I don't need a monitor larger than 30". If I did, I might go with a Dell Ultrasharp 31.5". Merely $800. Not a professional monitor for the graphics arts, although I suspect some may ues it that way (after calibration).

I think that rather than replacing all that stuff, I'd lose the Pioneer drive and just go with an LG or one of the other branded models actually made by LG. Some of them support M-Disc BDXL. It makes no sense (IMHO) to spend a small fortune to support a <$200 optical drive.

Does the Pioneer allow UHD BD movie play out of the box? That feature seems to have been removed from newer firmware of the LG based drives. Mine is hacked (old firmware), even though I have minimal interest in watching movies on my PC.

bobkn · 14 Nov 2020

An LG 14NS40 or 16NS40 can burn 100GB M-discs. (I personally verified it, just for fun.)

PowerDVD only will play UHD BluRay disks if the motherboard supports SGX. It won't work on an AMD motherboard. Again, I verified that myself.

DVDFab Player can play UHD BluRays, and needs no SGX extensions, but it requires firmware that dates from before the industry locked the drives down. (DVDFab is a Chinese operation, possibly operating outside of US IPR laws.) There's a specialized hobby dedicated to downgarding the firmware, mainly to allow ripping UHD BDs. (Look up "makemkv".) If you're up for some messing around, you could avoid spending a small fortune on an Intel motherboard that supports SGX.

I doubt that I'll ever burn a lot of 100GB M-discs, and I'm not into ripping UHD BDs, but it's fun to play.