1909 has a BIOS firmware update feature built into the Device Manager

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  1. Mystere's Avatar
    Posts : 3,223
    Windows 10 Pro
       #51

    stormy13 said:
    Good bloody thing isn't it. Can you imagine the number of bricked computers just because Microsoft decided to push out an actual bios update. And I somehow severely doubt that the motherboard manufacturers and OEM's would actually post a bios update to Windows Update.
    I do seem to recall that Microsoft has shipped bios patches with Windows (for the Spectre attacks IIRC), but I think this was more of a runtime patch than an actual bios update (although UEFI allows such patches so they could be considered "firmware updates".)

    But no, Microsoft isn't likely to be shipping bios updates in windows update.
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  2. Mystere's Avatar
    Posts : 3,223
    Windows 10 Pro
       #52

    Frabnkhs said:
    Then explain this. In Device Manager I selected Update Driver on the Device Manager and it did everything expected, downloaded the driver, rebooted, and even in BIOS asked me to update settings Including the second pix which is a camera photo of the BIOS screen BEFORE WINDOWS LOADED
    I think what you are describing is highly unlikely. More likely, you updated the driver file and it now displayed the information which the previous driver did not. Do you know for certain your bios version wasn't that before you did it?

    You're the only person claiming to have seen this happen, so unless there's some kind of corroboration, i'm going to go with what makes sense.
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  3. Frabnkhs's Avatar
    Posts : 115
    Win 10 Home 64bit (1909) 18363-836
    Thread Starter
       #53

    Mystere said:
    I think what you are describing is highly unlikely. More likely, you updated the driver file and it now displayed the information which the previous driver did not. Do you know for certain your bios version wasn't that before you did it?
    Last BIOS update I did was R01-C3

    I'm sure.
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  4. Mystere's Avatar
    Posts : 3,223
    Windows 10 Pro
       #54

    Frabnkhs said:
    Last BIOS update I did was R01-C3
    I'm sure.
    Well, there are several pieces of evidence that contradict you. For starters, when you click on that firmware node and right click on it, it shows a generic Microsoft driver. So when you update it in device manager, you are only updating that generic microsoft driver, not your bios. Second, when you click on driver details, it says "No driver files are required or have been loaded for this device.", which is a clear indication there really isn't a real driver here... therefore, clicking update driver should do nothing.

    What you're claiming here just doesn't make any sense. I'm not going to call you a liar, but i think you're confused. If you can re-flash the previous bios, and perform this test with a video, i'd be happy to eat crow. But until then, i'm going with what i know to be true.
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  5. Bree's Avatar
    Posts : 15,355
    10 Home x64 (2004) (10 Pro on 2nd pc)
       #55

    Mystere said:
    No, it's not. It is ONLY a reporting feature. Nowhere in this thread has anyone shown the ability to perform a bios update here...

    Maybe, maybe not. What evidence I can add is that of a number of Dell Latittudes of various vintages only my newest one (an E7270) has that Firmware item in Device Manager, Initially it showed as 'no driver files are required or have been loaded for this device' as has been reported by others...

    1909 has a BIOS firmware update feature built into the Device Manager-firmware-device-manager.png

    ...but clicking Update Driver found and downloaded a 9,823KB 'driver' file called firmware.bin provided by Dell and with the same version number and date as my current bios. What it would have done if the version had been higher than my current bios I cannot say, but it's not unreasonable to assume it would have offered to update the bios.

    1909 has a BIOS firmware update feature built into the Device Manager-firmware-updated-device-manager.png

    In theory I could test that. This machine's bios does allow me to downgrade to an earlier version using the bios update utilities from the Dell site, but understandably I am loathe to mess around installing multiple bios versions just to satisfy curiosity. What I can say is that it appears not to be just a reporting feature, else why the download of a .bin file provided by Dell?

    On balance the evidence seems to support @Frabnkhs
    Last edited by Bree; 1 Week Ago at 20:54.
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  6. Frabnkhs's Avatar
    Posts : 115
    Win 10 Home 64bit (1909) 18363-836
    Thread Starter
       #56

    Bree;1916632

    In theory I could test that. This machine's bios does allow me to downgrade to an earlier version using the bios update utilities from the Dell site, but understandably I am loathe to mess around installing multiple bios versions just to satisfy curiosity. What I can say is that it appears not to be just a reporting feature, else why the download of a .bin file provided by Dell?

    On balance the evidence seems to support @[URL="https://www.tenforums.com/members/frabnkhs.html" said:
    Frabnkhs[/URL]
    If your monthly quota of luck has run out.... Don't go there. Not important enough to take the risks

    A driver update does consist of running an outside program and they do have drivers that do a reboot & install thing and there are BIOS updaters which run from windows. They do reboot and I'm not too concerned with what is running under the hood. As long as it updates the driver I'm okay with it being a bit mysterious under the hood
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  7. Bree's Avatar
    Posts : 15,355
    10 Home x64 (2004) (10 Pro on 2nd pc)
       #57

    Frabnkhs said:
    If your monthly quota of luck has run out.... Don't go there. Not important enough to take the risks
    Don't worry, I have no intention of going anywhere near there

    A driver update does consist of running an outside program and they do have drivers that do a reboot & install thing and there are BIOS updaters which run from windows. They do reboot and I'm not too concerned with what is running under the hood. As long as it updates the driver I'm okay with it being a bit mysterious under the hood

    Digging around, it seems the mechanism for installing a firmware update like this is to schedule it to run at start up...
    Typically, the firmware update driver is a lightweight device driver that does the following:


    • At device start or in the driver's EVT_WDF_DRIVER_DEVICE_ADD callback function:
      1. Identify the device to which it is attached.
      2. Determine whether the driver has a firmware version that is more recent than the version on the firmware currently flashed on device hardware.
      3. If a firmware update is necessary, set an event timer to schedule the update.
      4. Otherwise, do nothing until the driver is started again.

    https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/win...windows-update
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  8. stormy13's Avatar
    Posts : 284
    Windows 10 Pro
       #58

    Mystere said:
    I do seem to recall that Microsoft has shipped bios patches with Windows (for the Spectre attacks IIRC), but I think this was more of a runtime patch than an actual bios update (although UEFI allows such patches so they could be considered "firmware updates".)

    But no, Microsoft isn't likely to be shipping bios updates in windows update.
    Those aren't bios updates but OS level microcode updates. Some of those can be done at the OS level, and some can only be done by a bios update.
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  9. Posts : 47
    windows 10
       #59

    I have had 3 dell bios updated since 5/23/2019 and from the dell website, 2 bios have been downloaded and displayed in the windows update history. The last bios version 1.12.0 was updated on 05/19/2020, in the device manager the firmware remained with the old version of bios 1.11.0. I tried to update it in the device manager it stays at version 1.11.0.
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  10. Berton's Avatar
    Posts : 8,085
    Win10 Home and Pro, Win10 Insider Preview, WinXP Home Premium, Linux Mint, Win7 Pro
       #60

    Like @Bree I have a Dell Latitude E7240 12" and it does not have the Firmware entry. But it is a Renewed/Refurbished purchase last summer and the install of Win10 Pro is a bit different from other OEM computers I've worked with, doesn't have a lot of what folks call Bloatware.
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