Windows 10: Question about recent power outage and PC Solved

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  1.    08 Apr 2018 #11

    jds63 said: View Post
    You both know more then i do on this matter i was not sure why this worked but so far glad it did and did not ruin my board, Power Supply or anything else in the process. Will be getting another better Surge Protector
    A transient into a motherboard may have corrupted CMOS settings. Battery voltage would be irrelevant. A PSU normally would have averted (blocked) that transient. Problem is an adjacent protector that compromised (bypassed) that PSU. Adjacent (power strip) protectors have a long history of connecting a transient directly into the motherboard; bypassing what is superior protection.

    Anyone can see that. For example, take a meter. Measure conductivity from that protector's third prong (on its AC plug) to many IC pins and other motherboard parts. That is the direct connect that a transient would have used to only corrupt CMOS settings.

    That transient is averted at the breaker box - a 'whole house' solution. If that computer needed protection, then all appliances (motorized and electronic) also needed that protection. Even near zero joule plug-in protectors need that protection.

    It was a tiny transient. Would have only corrupted some CMOS settings. Next time, the transient may be significant - do hardware damage.

    Do not waste money on plug-in boxes. Those do not claim to protect from typically destructive surges (as specification numbers make obvious). Apparently a 'whole house' protection system does not exist (that costs about $1 per protected appliance - it is that inexpensive). That 'whole house' solution necessary to even protect tiny joules in a plug-in protector.

    BTW holding down a front panel button does not drain capacitors. Those capacitors have bleeder resistors (typically 100K ohms) that drain charges in seconds. Those bleeder resistors were standard for protecting human life - even back when electronics used vacuum tubes. All capacitors are automatically discharged in seconds.
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  2. Posts : 3,085
    Windows 10 Pro 64 bit
    Thread Starter
       08 Apr 2018 #12

    PolarNettles said: View Post
    VBAT generally refers to the coin battery.
    Then the battery looks good ?
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  3. Posts : 3,085
    Windows 10 Pro 64 bit
    Thread Starter
       08 Apr 2018 #13

    westom said: View Post
    A transient into a motherboard may have corrupted CMOS settings. Battery voltage would be irrelevant. A PSU normally would have averted (blocked) that transient. Problem is an adjacent protector that compromised (bypassed) that PSU. Adjacent (power strip) protectors have a long history of connecting a transient directly into the motherboard; bypassing what is superior protection.

    Anyone can see that. For example, take a meter. Measure conductivity from that protector's third prong (on its AC plug) to many IC pins and other motherboard parts. That is the direct connect that a transient would have used to only corrupt CMOS settings.

    That transient is averted at the breaker box - a 'whole house' solution. If that computer needed protection, then all appliances (motorized and electronic) also needed that protection. Even near zero joule plug-in protectors need that protection.

    It was a tiny transient. Would have only corrupted some CMOS settings. Next time, the transient may be significant - do hardware damage.

    Do not waste money on plug-in boxes. Those do not claim to protect from typically destructive surges (as specification numbers make obvious). Apparently a 'whole house' protection system does not exist (that costs about $1 per protected appliance - it is that inexpensive). That 'whole house' solution necessary to even protect tiny joules in a plug-in protector.

    BTW holding down a front panel button does not drain capacitors. Those capacitors have bleeder resistors (typically 100K ohms) that drain charges in seconds. Those bleeder resistors were standard for protecting human life - even back when electronics used vacuum tubes. All capacitors are automatically discharged in seconds.
    Very well written educated reply, you know your stuff even though i only understand some thank you for your responses.
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  4. Posts : 3,085
    Windows 10 Pro 64 bit
    Thread Starter
       08 Apr 2018 #14

    PolarNettles said: View Post
    If the PC is unplugged from the wall then the coin battery will be supplying all the RTC power. So the battery will drain faster than if you left the PC plugged in. But on a fresh battery it would still take years for it to fully drain.

    Those "green power" sockets are not standardized so their behavior is up to the manufacturer. But they obviously contain additional electronics and probably mechanical relays that can fail during a surge. I doubt that they were directly responsible for the PC not powering up but there's really no way to tell.
    I am buying another and not trusting it again it was a Monster Surge Protector, thanks !
    Did have my PC in storage for a few months about a year and a half ago, does my AIDA64 VBAT 3V show this as o.k. ?
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  5. Posts : 3,085
    Windows 10 Pro 64 bit
    Thread Starter
       08 Apr 2018 #15

    Steve C said: View Post
    "You mean this voltage from 3v shown on AIDA64."

    I normally measure the actual CR2032 voltage with a voltmeter and fit a new battery if under 3V. A new battery is normally over 3.2V. Problems with these batteries can cause so much pain and grief so I replace them regularly. I haven't seen a hardware monitor before which reports the CMOS battery voltage. Maybe your motherboard is rare in having a sensor which reports this?
    Saying i should replace this battery ? Mention to OP i had it in storage for a few months about a year and a half ago, but had no issues since now. I do have one on hand CR2032.
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  6.    08 Apr 2018 #16

    jds63 said: View Post
    Saying i should replace this battery ? Mention to OP i had it in storage for a few months about a year and a half ago, but had no issues since now. I do have one on hand CR2032.
    At >3V your battery is fine. I only replace the coin battery when the BIOS complains about it. But for an accurate measurement you have to do it when the computer is unplugged and the coin battery is actually being used (since when the computer is on there is no load on the battery).

    Intel allows it to drop to 2V:

    Click image for larger version. 

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  7. Posts : 3,085
    Windows 10 Pro 64 bit
    Thread Starter
       08 Apr 2018 #17

    PolarNettles said: View Post
    At >3V your battery is fine. I only replace the coin battery when the BIOS complains about it. But for an accurate measurement you have to do it when the computer is unplugged and the coin battery is actually being used (since when the computer is on there is no load on the battery).

    Intel allows it to drop to 2V:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    So just take it out and test it with a volt meter ? Maybe better off changing it then anyway ? Since i have one.
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  •    08 Apr 2018 #18

    No, measure it while the battery is still installed, if possible (it would depend on the type of battery socket on your motherboard). The battery voltage changes depending on the load that's connected to it.

    But since it's >3V it's highly unlikely the voltage drop under load will be significant. I wouldn't worry about it. I have changed maybe 1 or 2 batteries in the past 30 years of owning PCs.
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  •    08 Apr 2018 #19

    jds63 said: View Post
    So just take it out and test it with a volt meter ? Maybe better off changing it then anyway ? Since i have one.
    Volt meter is a superb diagnostic tool. If the battery is 2.8 volts, then plan to replace it in the next six months.

    Another indication of a battery going bad long before it does go bad: clock will not keep accurate time when power is removed for a day or week.
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  •    09 Apr 2018 #20

    PolarNettles said: View Post
    No, measure it while the battery is still installed, if possible (it would depend on the type of battery socket on your motherboard). The battery voltage changes depending on the load that's connected to it.

    But since it's >3V it's highly unlikely the voltage drop under load will be significant. I wouldn't worry about it. I have changed maybe 1 or 2 batteries in the past 30 years of owning PCs.
    My PC is switched off at the mains when not in use so I'm lucky to get more than 2 years use before the CMOS battery needs changing. I've had various problems with a CMOS battery just under 3V. I fail to see how a battery at 2V would work in the motherboards I've owned. If I'm fiddling with the PC and have the case cover off, I just replace any battery CMOS battery showing under 3V.
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