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  1.    22 Mar 2017 #11
    Join Date : Jul 2016
    Posts : 13
    Windows 10
    Thread Starter

    Thanks.

    FYI, I couldn't get AOMEI Backup to work under Gandalf's Win10PE. Complained about a bad driver. I will try AOMEI's WinPE, perhaps tonight. Meanwhile, I used FastCopy to selectively get all the important things I could think of off the drive. (It's the first time I used FastCopy & it lived up to its name! Also didn't choke on long paths.) Dell is supposed to come tomorrow to replace my hard drive.

    Looking at the benchmark result it indicates that the HDD is failing.
    I am curious as to what aspect of the Benchmark test led you to conclude the disk is failing? The absolute numbers? The performance pattern in the graph? Something else?

    Thanks for all the help.
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  2.    22 Mar 2017 #12
    Join Date : Jun 2015
    Posts : 12,864
    Windows 10 Pro

    Look at the amount of the transfer rate minimum and the pattern, it is 0.3MB/s and an average of 2.2MB/s. This means that the hard drive reads data at a minimum of 0.3MB/s, at best 57.2MB/s and normally 2.2MB/s. This is slow.

    The lower the transfer rate is getting, the slower the HDD is going to perform. Ultimately it will take a long time for data to be read and the mechanics of the HDD is physically failing what could result in an unbootable HDD.


    This is just for comparison.
    From what I read, your HDD has a 7.200 RPM. I have a laptop with a HDD of 5.400 RPM. The HDD reaches a maximum of 120MB/s and a minimum of roughly 50MB/s after a few years of use, which is reasonable.
      My ComputersSystem Spec
  3.    22 Mar 2017 #13
    Join Date : Jul 2016
    Posts : 13
    Windows 10
    Thread Starter

    I see. So basically, it's the incredibly slow performance that is the telltale sign. That explains a lot of things. My machine's been getting progressively less responsive in the last year, especially for things related to the file system (e.g., opening a common dialog). I had thought it was just the OS getting choked with all the detritus that I accumulate over time - I was planning to do a wipe-reinstall because of that, which is why I decided to do a full system backup (aside from my regular incremental CrashPlan backups). Odd this degradation - my disk is only 3 years old. I have other disks on other machines that have been running for a decade or more.... But this machine is my main workhorse now. I'll report back in a week or so after my disk is replaced and I've loaded it up & broken it in. I'll try Backupper again & see what happens.

    BTW, FastCopy managed to do most of the copying at the top of the Benchmark speed. I was impressed by it. (I'm looking forward to being more impressed when I'm back to normal high-speed performance, though!)

    Thanks again for all the help.
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  4.    22 Mar 2017 #14
    Join Date : Jun 2015
    Posts : 12,864
    Windows 10 Pro

    So basically, it's the incredibly slow performance that is the telltale sign.
    Yep.

    Odd this degradation - my disk is only 3 years old
    Degradation happens for various of reasons, like
    - amount of usage, expected
    - amount of crashes (BSOD, powerloss), unexpected.
    Generally speaking, HDDs usually lasts only a couple of years (3-4), with some luck twice that time.

    An example of the mentioned unexpected reason, something that happened to me.
    A large amount of BSODs could cause the HDD to degradate, not because of the BSOD itself but the cause what triggered the BSOD, the BSOD is there to protect the system and your data.
    When I had my laptop the first couple of months, 4 years ago, I had a ton of BSODs. Everytime a BSOD occured I couldn't boot, everytime this was resolved by starting all over again. However, after some time I couldn't clean install anymore, I ran the Dell diagnostics that I accessed through the boot menu. The diagnostics revealed that the HDD died. I presume that the HDD died because of the amount of BSODs I had, in other words the forced powerlosses and possibly bad data written to the disk, another factor was that I was terrible at maintenance at the time but a novice like me wouldn't have thought about that at all.
      My ComputersSystem Spec
  5.    31 Mar 2017 #15
    Join Date : Jun 2015
    Posts : 12,864
    Windows 10 Pro

    Hi @Yoshm,

    How is it going?
      My ComputersSystem Spec
  6.    31 Mar 2017 #16
    Join Date : May 2014
    Cross Plains, WI
    Posts : 318
    Windows 10 Pro x64

    Quote Originally Posted by axe0 View Post
    Yep.


    Degradation happens for various of reasons, like
    - amount of usage, expected
    - amount of crashes (BSOD, powerloss), unexpected.
    Generally speaking, HDDs usually lasts only a couple of years (3-4), with some luck twice that time.

    An example of the mentioned unexpected reason, something that happened to me.
    A large amount of BSODs could cause the HDD to degradate, not because of the BSOD itself but the cause what triggered the BSOD, the BSOD is there to protect the system and your data.
    When I had my laptop the first couple of months, 4 years ago, I had a ton of BSODs. Everytime a BSOD occured I couldn't boot, everytime this was resolved by starting all over again. However, after some time I couldn't clean install anymore, I ran the Dell diagnostics that I accessed through the boot menu. The diagnostics revealed that the HDD died. I presume that the HDD died because of the amount of BSODs I had, in other words the forced powerlosses and possibly bad data written to the disk, another factor was that I was terrible at maintenance at the time but a novice like me wouldn't have thought about that at all.
    I have a WD Caviar Black Edition 1TB drive that is probably going on 6-7 years old and it still runs flawlessly. Fast transfers, very stable. Some do last quite a while.
      My ComputersSystem Spec
  7.    02 Apr 2017 #17
    Join Date : Jul 2016
    Posts : 13
    Windows 10
    Thread Starter

    Quote Originally Posted by axe0 View Post
    Hi @Yoshm,

    How is it going?
    Hey, @axe0,

    Well, the new disk is installed & it is noticeably faster than the previous one. I also used the opportunity to put in an SSD for the system drive. I had an accident, unfortunately - my full backups were on an external drive. As I was restoring them, someone walked by, tripped on the power cable and flung the external drive violently to the floor. It no longer works :-(

    So now I am very slowly getting a backup restored off the cloud (CrashPlan). All my critical files should be available by the time I am done (within a day or two of the disk swap), but there are some non-critical files that weren't backed up anywhere else, but my external drive.

    I did want to certify the new drive. I ran HD Tune on it and got better results - I'll paste them below. However, I really like to use SpinRite to fully certify the read & write capabilities of a drive. Its Level 4 will read every single byte, and rewrite a few times inverting bits & such and finally restore the original data. It verifies every single bit is usable. Unfortunately, for some reason SpinRite isn't able to read the hardware properties of the new drive so refuses to run. :-(

    Dell's diagnostics still hang on the SMART Extended Self-test - it hangs now on the SSD, so it never even gets to test the new hard drive.

    Overall performance is pretty snappy - but that may also be a function of a fresh install of Windows with out much detritus added yet :-)

    Do you know of a good non-destructive, full-disk write test? I would like to raise my confidence slightly before I let Dell close my ticket.

    BTW, I did have another BSOD a few days after the new disk was installed. It reported stopcode of BAD POOL HEADER. I'm not sure its related to my hard drive. It hasn't recurred. Any thoughts about that?

    Thanks again for your help & interest. If you have any more pointers or ideas, I'd be pleased to hear them.

    Best,
    Yosh
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  8.    02 Apr 2017 #18
    Join Date : Jul 2016
    Posts : 13
    Windows 10
    Thread Starter

    HD Tune results on new drive


    HD Tune Pro: WDC WD7500BPKX-75HPJT0 Benchmark


    Test capacity: full


    Read transfer rate
    Transfer Rate Minimum : 14.2 MB/s
    Transfer Rate Maximum : 117.9 MB/s
    Transfer Rate Average : 86.4 MB/s
    Access Time :
    Burst Rate :
    CPU Usage : 8.2%




    HD Tune Pro: WDC WD7500BPKX-75HPJT0 Health


    ID Current Worst ThresholdData Status
    (01) Raw Read Error Rate 100 253 51 0 ok
    (03) Spin Up Time 189 189 21 1541 ok
    (04) Start/Stop Count 100 100 0 6 ok
    (05) Reallocated Sector Count 200 200 140 0 ok
    (07) Seek Error Rate 100 253 0 0 ok
    (09) Power On Hours Count 100 100 0 5 ok
    (0A) Spin Retry Count 100 253 0 0 ok
    (0B) Calibration Retry Count 100 253 0 0 ok
    (0C) Power Cycle Count 100 100 0 4 ok
    (BF) G-sense Error Rate 100 100 0 0 ok
    (C0) Unsafe Shutdown Count 200 200 0 1 ok
    (C1) Load Cycle Count 200 200 0 44 ok
    (C2) Temperature 112 106 0 35 ok
    (C4) Reallocated Event Count 200 200 0 0 ok
    (C5) Current Pending Sector 200 200 0 0 ok
    (C6) Offline Uncorrectable 100 253 0 0 ok
    (C7) Interface CRC Error Count 200 200 0 0 ok
    (C8) Write Error Rate 100 253 0 0 ok
    (F0) Head Flying Hours 100 100 0 1 ok
    (F1) Unknown Attribute 200 200 0 10027511 ok
    (F2) Unknown Attribute 200 200 0 2449712 ok
    (FE) Unknown Attribute 200 200 0 0 ok


    Health Status : ok




    HD Tune Pro: WDC WD7500BPKX-75HPJT0 Error Scan


    Scanned data : 749 gB
    Damaged Blocks : 0.0 %
    Elapsed Time : 2:26:41











    HD Tune Pro: WDC WD7500BPKX-75HPJT0 Random Access


    Test capacity: full


    Read test


    Transfer size operations / sec avg. access time max. access time avg. speed
    512 bytes 62 IOPS 15.989 ms 29.303 ms 0.031 MB/s
    4 KB 63 IOPS 15.862 ms 28.669 ms 0.246 MB/s
    64 KB 60 IOPS 16.465 ms 29.047 ms 3.796 MB/s
    1 MB 37 IOPS 26.455 ms 81.662 ms 37.799 MB/s
    Random 46 IOPS 21.305 ms 41.072 ms 23.816 MB/s
    HD Tune Pro: WDC WD7500BPKX-75HPJT0 Random Access


    Test capacity: full


    Read test


    Transfer size operations / sec avg. access time max. access time avg. speed
    512 bytes 62 IOPS 15.989 ms 29.303 ms 0.031 MB/s
    4 KB 63 IOPS 15.862 ms 28.669 ms 0.246 MB/s
    64 KB 60 IOPS 16.465 ms 29.047 ms 3.796 MB/s
    1 MB 37 IOPS 26.455 ms 81.662 ms 37.799 MB/s
    Random 46 IOPS 21.305 ms 41.072 ms 23.816 MB/s



      My ComputerSystem Spec
  9.    02 Apr 2017 #19
    Join Date : Jun 2015
    Posts : 12,864
    Windows 10 Pro

    All tests I know/use are HDTune, SeaTools and chkdsk. I could also include CrystalDiskInfo which is similar to HDTune in regards to the SMART, but nothing more.

    I'd say, if the read tests go alright, you could assume the write test would also go alright.


    The Google images aren't showing for me.
      My ComputersSystem Spec
  10.    06 Apr 2017 #20
    Join Date : Jul 2016
    Posts : 13
    Windows 10
    Thread Starter

    Quote Originally Posted by axe0 View Post
    I'd say, if the read tests go alright, you could assume the write test would also go alright.
    Ah, if only that were true... my experience has been otherwise...
    Quote Originally Posted by axe0 View Post
    The Google images aren't showing for me.
    You mean the screenshots from HD Tune? Probably not critical. Don't know why you're not seeing them. I've reloaded my browser & they still show up.
      My ComputerSystem Spec

 
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