1. Joined : Apr 2016
    Posts : 6
    Windows 10 x64
       28 Apr 2016 #1

    Post-boot freeze at desktop; can't figure out


    I've been trying to install Windows 10 on an SSD; for ~2 weeks I've been occasionally getting a frozen computer just after boot at the desktop. I've had to clean install Win10 at least half a dozen times. I haven't figured out what causes it, but once it happens the cycle never stops without a whole new clean install. Repairs don't work. The computer can boot to a safe mode without freezing, but then freezes again if you come back to normal.

    This morning, it froze and I forced a shutdown via power button, quickly used msconfig before the freeze hit, hid all MS services, disabled the 7, disabled 7 startups in Task Manager - lo and behold it came back to normal, so I thought I was narrowing it down. I re-enabled a few services (~3-4) [not startups] (one at a time, restarting the computer each time) and no problem. I re-enabled the entire remainder of services (~3-4) and it froze. I disabled those few again, runs fine without freezing, I'm thinking "ok, has to be one of these couple remaining." Then one-by-one I re-enabled and restarted + shutdown (yeah, both, because I'm worried about something like fastboot making the restart different than the shutdown) after each one (Skype Updater, Macrium Reflect Image Mounting Service, Google Update (gupdate & gupdatem). No freeze.

    I enabled all 7 startups as well, msconfig is back to "normal startup", now it's not freezing. That's good it's running, but I can't narrow this down until it freezes again.

    I used to think it was the event 10016 that I was finding in the event viewer, went through the steps to fix permissions in regedit and component services. Still had freezes after that. Looked at some other event #s, am not convinced overheating or a battery / power issue are causes since the computer is on right now the longest it has been all day (so it's currently pretty hot) and not freezing.

    BIOS is most-recent (2013), NOT trying to auto-overclock, AHCI mode for the SSD (ADATA SP550), drivers all seem fine (no error messages, everything but this freeze operates correctly).

    I wonder if it could be related to my external HD - Western Digital My Book Essential USB. For a bit, I thought maybe it was related to accidentally leaving it plugged in when the computer restart / shutdown, but I have tried to recreate that now that the freezing is gone and it won't recreate.

    Then I thought it was maybe because that external drive was automatically captured by Defrag. But defrag doesn't show it when unplugged and I have not disabled that drive from the schedule right now. So it's still "in" defrag's list but it's not freezing, so I don't think that's it. I can actually run a defrag on it no problem. I want it to defrag monthly.

    I wonder about Windows Defender - I read somewhere about it maybe being a problem. I tried to use the msconfig bootlog but there was no difference in bootlog_not_loaded files from freezing to not freezing. dxgkrnl.sys listed 4 times and wdfilter.sys, those don't change as I change services or startups. I thought maybe wdfilter.sys was a cause (that's Defender), but the computer froze even when it was _not_loaded. I have a screensaver that Defender says is suspicious, but I go in and "allow" it - I can forcibly start Defender, update definitions, run a quick scan, and not freeze.

    I've wondered about Windows Update, but I updated last night at midnight (successfully, no errors nor hangups) and had installed a few things since, it was several hours of computer-on time since Windows Update when the freeze occurred.

    Back at the beginning of this install I disallowed SSD indexing, I also disabled fast startup in power options and set it to never hibernate. In the past I have disabled hibernate through command and deleted hiberfile.sys; didn't prevent freezing back then; leaving it alone except for never hibernating through power options and it still froze today, so doesn't seem to be the issue.

    The last thing I can think is either the Skype updater or the two Google Updaters. But I can't see how I'm going to get rid of them since I need to use Chrome and Skype. I do have LastPass and Chrometana extensions in Chrome - perhaps there's a chance that allowing Chrome to run as a background app for Chrometana purposes could be a problem, so I've given up on that, removed the extension, and disallowed background apps when Chrome is closed - only time will tell if I get another freeze.

    Any other ideas on what the problem could be, or how to narrow this down? I am really not tech savvy, I only used msconfig or regedit or those things by searching for hours and following exact directions from this and other windows forums. I'm not even sure I properly attached the files I was supposed to in this thread

    I know it's a long post, but I wanted to make sure you understand how many different things I've tried already.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec


  2. Joined : Jun 2015
    Posts : 10,900
    Windows 10 Pro / Windows 10 TP / Windows 8.1 Pro / Windows 7 Pro
       29 Apr 2016 #2

    Hi robbx123,

    Welcome to the 10forums

    Just to be clear, at what moment does the problem occur? It's quite difficult to find that part back in your description, though your description of what you've tried is appreciated useful for troubleshooting
      My System SpecsSystem Spec


  3. Joined : Apr 2016
    Posts : 6
    Windows 10 x64
       29 Apr 2016 #3

    Update


    axe0 said: View Post
    Hi robbx123,

    Welcome to the 10forums

    Just to be clear, at what moment does the problem occur? It's quite difficult to find that part back in your description, though your description of what you've tried is appreciated useful for troubleshooting
    It happens as early as the second set of swirling dots logging on. So, the light-blue 4-panel window shows and the swirling dots appear underneath once and continue rotating, then the screen blinks and the dots rotate again - that's the earliest it happens. If the dots stop rotating, I know it's frozen. I wait a minute the first time it happens, only wait ~15 seconds following times. If everything is right, the dots never stop rotating. Sometimes it happens when my (blank) avatar comes up with my UA name and the dots spin (dots stop rotating = problem). The latest that it happens is ~15-20 seconds after the windows startup music plays and programs are loading, I can see the desktop, I have enough time to do something very fast (e.g., click start - sysconfig app, it loads, and freeze). I think I've only once been able to restart after making sysconfig changes before the freeze. I even have tried start - shift+restart to get boot options and it froze as it was restarting. I basically HAVE to get to safe mode to change the sysconfig options, but read below and you'll see I think it may not matter.

    Since my post, I had another freeze incident. After that original post, things were going fine for several hours last night. This morning I installed Steam and Crusader Kings 2, and Battery Bar v3.6.6 free, and I copied a bunch of files from my external drive to my desktop. It was running fine this morning after that for an hour or two and I shutdown ~1pm to go run errands. I came home this evening ~5pm and started and it froze.

    Eventually got to safe mode, I went back into system config and disabled Steam Client Service in services and restarted thinking it was Steam, or installing a new program, or something about internet / program update checks. Still froze. Got back into system config and disabled all services AND disabled all startups through Task Manager and it froze again. This now makes me think those services and startups could be irrelevant; then again, here I am right now no freezing so maybe it does.

    I've noticed that everything is fine in Safe Mode. Then I tried to boot to Safe Mode with networking, again fine, but I could not connect to my AT&T gateway / the internet - seems like there wasn't actually any "with networking". As in, nothing appears to be connected to via Network & Sharing Center. I was going to use Safe Mode with network to check my e-mail and come back here to update.

    So then I went to Safe Mode with command prompt thinking that would load even more (and thinking maybe something about the internet/update checks/etc. is causing the problem), useless because it's only command prompt, went back to a normal non-safe-mode login (services and startups are still disabled via sysconfig) and that's what I'm in right now and it seems fine and is not freezing. I've been on 15 minutes and no problems, not going to have any after that long. Which now confuses me that it may not be internet / auto-update check related.

    Tried to look at ntbtlog again, still the same 4 dxgkrnl.sys and Wdfilter.sys entries NOT_LOADED in my current session.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec


  4. Joined : Apr 2016
    Posts : 6
    Windows 10 x64
       29 Apr 2016 #4

    when it happens


    So, just when I think it's Steam, it seems to prove me wrong. Just when I think it's something internet / update check realted, it seems to prove me wrong. I ran a check in Windows Update to see if that was it, no updates to be had and no freeze due to that check. Started Windows Defender to force it to appear in the task tray, even tried to make it check for updates, made it quick scan, no updates no issues and no freeze.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec


  5. Joined : Jun 2015
    Posts : 10,900
    Windows 10 Pro / Windows 10 TP / Windows 8.1 Pro / Windows 7 Pro
       30 Apr 2016 #5

    Have you tried to update the firmware of your SSD?
      My System SpecsSystem Spec


  6. Joined : Jan 2016
    Posts : 514
    windows 10 Pro
       30 Apr 2016 #6

    You have some outdated drivers.
    But the supportpage of your laptop only has windows 7 drivers.
    Maybe if you update to the latest "generic" drivers it will solve your problem.
    Reading your problem i would start with the IaStorA.sys driver from Intel, search for Intel Rapid Storage driver

    Probably you have also try to update these drivers
    12/11/2012 1:21:44 PM C:\Windows\system32\drivers\amdsbs.sys
    Driver Description: AMD AHCI Compatible Controller driver
    Driver Update Site: Support Drivers


    9/17/2009 12:54:16 PM C:\Windows\system32\drivers\HECIx64.sys
    Driver Description: Intel Management Engine Interface
    Driver Update Site: Drivers & Software
      My System SpecsSystem Spec


  7. Joined : Apr 2016
    Posts : 6
    Windows 10 x64
       30 Apr 2016 #7

    SSD drivers


    lifetec said: View Post
    You have some outdated drivers.
    But the supportpage of your laptop only has windows 7 drivers.
    Maybe if you update to the latest "generic" drivers it will solve your problem.
    Reading your problem i would start with the IaStorA.sys driver from Intel, search for Intel Rapid Storage driver

    Probably you have also try to update these drivers
    12/11/2012 1:21:44 PM C:\Windows\system32\drivers\amdsbs.sys
    Driver Description: AMD AHCI Compatible Controller driver
    Driver Update Site: Support Drivers


    9/17/2009 12:54:16 PM C:\Windows\system32\drivers\HECIx64.sys
    Driver Description: Intel Management Engine Interface
    Driver Update Site: Drivers & Software
    Yeah, of course I lost the original driver disk to this G73JH, and the old hard drive with the recovery partition went kaput, and Chastity's link on the ASUS ROG forum from like 2010 no longer links... Only original G73JH drivers I actually found a link to have been the keyboard backlight and Fn+volume. That, and things are working other than this freezing, so that's why I've sat on the drivers and just let them be until now.

    I believe my iastor driver is pretty good right now. Whenever I clean installed windows, I had to put an iastor file on a thumbstick and 'load' it. The current one is actually me using "update driver" to get from what I had on that thumb drive to this, but the freezes still happen. In Device Manager, IDE ATA/ATAPI controllers, I currently have "Intel 5 series 4 port SATA AHCI Controller". RMB > properties > driver tab = v12.9.4.1000 from 7Apr2014. Do I still need to look for Intel Rapid Storage driver more recent than this?

    On another (potentially useless) side note, for a bit last night I thought maybe OneDrive was the culprit. It doesn't load in the task tray during Safe Mode and the computer didn't seem to freeze whenever it was disabled in Task Manager + settings (don't start on Windows startup). But then I tried to test that theory and allowed it to start and no freeze :/

    I will attempt the other 2. I assume the same way, find those items in Device Manager and "update driver". For the Intel Mgmt Engine Interface, automatic driver search says "best driver already installed" so I assume I have to do it the manual method like I did for iastor.

    I cannot find AMD AHCI Compatible Controller driver in Device Manager, even when I "VIew" show hidden devices and look at Disk Drives, IDE ATA/ATAPI controllers, Storage Controllers, System Devices, and Display Adapters. I also looked at Driver Details inside individual items of those groups and couldn't find amdsbs.sys, not even in Display Adapters > AMD Mobility Radeon HD 5800 series which was a long list of drivers. That one I know is current I've downloaded the most recent catalyst control center available for my mobility 58xx series 64bit. I don't know how to find what's using that amdsbs.sys driver and update it.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec


  8. Joined : Apr 2016
    Posts : 6
    Windows 10 x64
       30 Apr 2016 #8

    I found something called Intel Driver Update Utility. It didn't bring up the RST / RAID, but says I need to update chipset inf from 10.0.10586.0 to 10.1.1.14. EDIT: attempting to use this installer results in unknown error. Logs attached. Attachment 77565

    Searching for RST I found the f6flpy x64 zip file again, but this time v14.8.0.1042 and the intel website says that's "latest". It has iastor among the handful of files.

    EDIT: When I try to use Device Manager update driver for the iastor file, I first browsed and then browsed that folder of files but it still said I'm fine. So then I chose "let me pick" and "have disk" but selecting iastor returned 5 different choices and I don't know what to pick. All I remember is this G73JH is the RBBX05 from Best Buy and is an i7 Q720 @ 1.6 GHz. Doing a search for G73JH chipset, a post in Notebookreview forum said HM55 and Chastity responded that's 5 series. Cnet says mobile intel HM55 express.

    100 series / c230 chipset family ...
    6th gen core processor family ...
    8 series chipset family ...
    8 series / c220 chipset family ...
    9 series chipset family ...

    Attachment 77563
    The 12.9 driver series is the last one that supports 5 series. I tried to go through the steps for 13 and it only shows 6 or later. I also notice that I have 12.9.4 installed, but Intel's website only provides 12.9.0 and somewhere I saw somebody post that the 4 is for HP... but I don't think I should install an older driver and roll back to 12.9.0 should I?

    When I search for the intel management engine interface on downloadcenter.intel.com, it appears in the search box but there are 0 files any download type any OS. Other than that, there's available the same Intel Driver Update Utility as above that returned unknown error trying to update the chipset inf.

    As for amdsbs.sys, I tired AMD's auto detect utility, which resulted in nothing. I also tried the v16.4.2 "Crimson" chipset SATA AHCI Win10x64 installer, but it said I don't have any AMD devices (except the Radeon of course which is already up to date). So, the AMD SATA not appearing in Device Manager anywhere (including IDE and Storage Controllers) means the application can't find it. Then I tried to RMB > update drivers > have disk on MS Storage Spaces Controller and Intel 5 series under IDE and nothing worked. I search in that C Windows AMD Crimson folder where everything was extracted and search for amdsbs.sys and no files are found.
    Last edited by robbx213; 30 Apr 2016 at 14:21.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec


  9. Joined : Apr 2016
    Posts : 6
    Windows 10 x64
       03 May 2016 #9

    Bueller?

    I got another random freeze this morning. Restarted and went to Safe Mode, turned off some non-Windows services in sysconfig and disabled some startups through task manager, restarted fine, re-enabled them all and restarted again fine, no freezes for a couple hours.

    So at least I have a workaround that only takes a few minutes (and hopefully continues to succeed).

    Given the trouble of 1) I can't update drivers because my 5th gen chipset is so old so it's most recent driver is also old, and 2) I can't even find some of the drivers / devices I was told to update... is this just a case of I'm trying to put something too new / fast (an SSD) on something too old / slow (G73JH w/ HM55 chipset)?

    If I can't find a fixable cause, maybe the best solution is "buy a new laptop this Christmas"? I guess 6-7 years is a good run for a laptop, hehe
      My System SpecsSystem Spec


 


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