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  1. Joined : Dec 2015
    Posts : 9
    Windows 10, Update
       27 Dec 2015 #1

    BSOD Everytime: MEMORY_MANAGEMENT 0x0000001a 00000000`00004477


    Hello all,

    First time poster, thanks in advance for all tips and assistance. This one has me stumped! I am getting a BSOD (BC shown in title), exact same one, every time I put my laptop into sleep, hibernate or power off.

    I've done all the usual stuff, listed here, plus other things I am probably forgetting like safe mode etc... Now running Driver Verifier (for the first time). Seems like I should be able to figure this out since it is the same one, but I don't have VC setup with debug symbols to see the failing line of code. So I am hoping someone who does this more often will be able to check it out and/or offer any other insight.

    I have attached the .zip file with all the logs, output from CPU-Z and a couple of minidumps found here
    Attachment 55634
    Attachment 55635
    Attachment 55636

    Since they are all the same (or very, very close) I just attached two. My theory was that the pagefile was not getting written fast enough or something, but haven't been able to change anything that modified or alleviated the BSOD.

    Notes on what I have tried so far:

    Read tons of related articles on here, MS forums, T. Hardware, .... Didn't keep a list, it is a lot, figured surely someone had seen this. Interestingly I can't find this exact error code (para 1 is 0x...4477) documented anywhere, including MS and here:
    BSOD Index (Great reference, thanks John Carrona!)

    SSD system
    Tried three different SSD SanDisk Extreme II, SanDisk Extreme, SanDisk Ultra II

    Upgraded new memory 4GB to 8GB (previously done, but suspecting memory issue, tried a bunch of working sticks to verify sockets and see if something wrong with these, can't find anything)
    Tried both orders; tried original 4GB set, both orders; tried 4GB set from other laptop, worked fine from other upgrade, both orders; tried 8GB upgrade from other laptop, working fine in other laptop

    1. Did driver updates (used a tool to find latest versions)
    2. Did sfc, ok
    3. Did chkdsk, ok (new image on new SSD in 2/3 cases anyway)
    4. Did memtest, memtest.org, ok (on new sticks, currently in)
    5. Updated BIOS (latest is 9c.25.00)
    6. Swapped memory sticks (see full list above)
    7. Verified pagefile is full sized. Tried with no pagefile (in case of timing issue with SSD) small file and full file. Currently at full file size.

    After driver verifier (assuming it doesn't turn up the smoking gun) I am thinking maybe retrograde the BIOS, and see if that has any impact. They did several spins for thermal issues on the GPU I am not seeing, so maybe the latest isn't required. I have no way to adjust timings on this laptop, and if I did, not sure I would want to mess around with that. Laptop that has to stay on but works is much nicer than a brick!

    Thanks in advance!
      My System SpecsSystem Spec


  2. Joined : Dec 2015
    Posts : 9
    Windows 10, Update
       28 Dec 2015 #2

    Hello all,

    Finished running Driver Verifier for 24 hours no results. Looks like downgrading the BIOS is problematic, so I'll wait to see if anyone here has any thoughts before I go that route. Still hopefully that a look at the minidumps with symbols will reveal something as the BSOD all look identical and are 100% occurring.

    Read a few other threads on power/sleep related BSOD, but none are the same BC and the have done the debugging steps listed in any case.

    Thanks all!

    PS - looks like most people here reply rather than edit their posts, haven't seen many edits or anything in the guidelines. I know if I am doing a bump it should be in the other thread. thanks....
      My System SpecsSystem Spec


  3. Joined : Jun 2015
    Posts : 10,902
    Windows 10 Pro / Windows 10 TP / Windows 8.1 Pro / Windows 7 Pro
       29 Dec 2015 #3

    Please remove / disable items from the startup in taskmanager
    These programs could interfere with the boot process giving you trouble and increase the boot time.

    How many passes have been completed with the memtest?
    What settings have you used for driver verifier?
      My System SpecsSystem Spec


  4. Joined : Dec 2015
    Posts : 9
    Windows 10, Update
       29 Dec 2015 #4

    Hello,

    axe0 said: View Post
    Please remove / disable items from the startup in taskmanager
    These programs could interfere with the boot process giving you trouble and increase the boot time.
    >RF> OK I will take everything out and see if that helps. I get the BSOD going into not coming out of though, never had any boot issues. But I will disable everything and see if that helps.

    How many passes have been completed with the memtest?
    >RF> Actually I don't remember I started it one night and left running until I got home the next day, a little less than 24 hours. Is that long enough?

    What settings have you used for driver verifier?
    >RF> I did all the non-Microsoft and unsigned drivers. I did not do any Microsoft drivers. I did these settings:

    • I/O Verification
    • Force pending I/O requests
    • IRP logging


    Basically I followed the instructions on this tutorial:
    Driver Verifier - Enable and Disable in Windows 10 - Windows 10 Forums

    I never used this tool before, so I wasn't very creative, just followed what it said.
    Thanks very much for the help, will reply back after disabling all the startup programs.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec


  5. Joined : Dec 2015
    Posts : 9
    Windows 10, Update
       29 Dec 2015 #5

    Hello again,

    Ok, interesting results. I started with safe mode, absolute minimum everything, dump called minimal services. Hibernate and shutdown OK. Then I turned off minimal, but stayed in safe mode, so still small list. Hibernate and shutdown OK. dump called SafeModeNotMinimal. Then I turned off safe mode, but manually disabled every service that was not a MS service. So no third party at all, even for track pad etc... Failed on hibernate. Did full capture, Selective startup shows the MS services running and also did a full capture with the collector tool.

    I thought i had the collector tool still on the laptop when I was in safe minimal, but i didn't so I just did an export of the services list.

    So It seems like it is something with one of the MS services. Any way to tell without just turning them on one by one until it fails? I can do that, but with a few minutes per power cycle and lots of services, it would take a pretty long time. Hopefully there is a hint somewhere?

    Also captured a bootlog, but I didn't see anything in there, but I attached it anyway.

    It seems the good news out of this though, is that it is another data point that it is not the HW. Will continue to dig around until I hear back....

    Appreciate your help,
      My System SpecsSystem Spec


  6. Joined : Jun 2015
    Posts : 10,902
    Windows 10 Pro / Windows 10 TP / Windows 8.1 Pro / Windows 7 Pro
       29 Dec 2015 #6

    There is a hell of a list of drivers that need updating/removing/reinstalling.

    Please post a link from your manufacturer to the drivers, bios and software updates, I can't find anything.
    Is according to your manufacturer your laptop ready for Windows 10? I see some drivers dating 2006, 3 years before the release of Windows 7.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec


  7. Joined : Dec 2015
    Posts : 9
    Windows 10, Update
       29 Dec 2015 #7

    axe0 said: View Post
    There is a hell of a list of drivers that need updating/removing/reinstalling.

    Please post a link from your manufacturer to the drivers, bios and software updates, I can't find anything.
    Is according to your manufacturer your laptop ready for Windows 10? I see some drivers dating 2006, 3 years before the release of Windows 7.
    Hello,
    It is an older laptop, Gateway only supported it through W7. The MS checker said it was W10 compatible, and other than this issue, everything seems fine.

    There is no direct link, it is some kind of dynamic page. The drivers there have not been updated there in a while. I am using a program called DriverMax to help identify the latest version of drivers. There are only a few not at the latest according to it, so they may be old, but not sure there will be many newer ones. I don't know how good the tool is, but when I used it the first time during my refresh, it did help me update quiet a few.
    The ones it lists as not updated are as follows:
    Attachment 55990
    So I didn't think they were critical, but I will update them to finish getting everything caught up.

    I can uninstall some probably, but not sure how I know which ones are still used. I use this laptop for a ton of very different things, many of which require some type of large installation that has drivers that I don't follow the details closely. For example the robotics program I am involved with install a ton of National Instruments software, and it includes various updaters and drivers.

    Anyway, the official location is here:
    Drivers & Downloads, then select the Notebooks, P-Series, and P-78 options to get to the doc/downloads.
    Attachment 55992

    Can you tell anything from the logs or minidumps about where the crash is occurring and/or which driver is causing it? I can do additional cleanup, but I was hoping that since it is always in the same place the debugger would give us some direct hint?

    Do you know any better/additional driver management tools?

    Again, thanks!
      My System SpecsSystem Spec


  8. Joined : Jun 2015
    Posts : 10,902
    Windows 10 Pro / Windows 10 TP / Windows 8.1 Pro / Windows 7 Pro
       29 Dec 2015 #8

    The best driver management tool is yourself, do it manually and prevent corrupted drivers/wrong driver installations.
    Manufacturers alter their drivers what forces you to only install their drivers, any other driver will cause you problems.

    I recommend to revert back to Windows 7. Microsoft says your laptop is compatible but the drivers delivered by your manufacturer aren't, because your manufacturer doesn't bring updates. That is the problem for you.
    Microsoft can only check hardware compatibility, but nothing more. Someone shouldn't always do something because someone else tells him to do it.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec


  9. Joined : Dec 2015
    Posts : 9
    Windows 10, Update
       29 Dec 2015 #9

    Hello,
    I agree it would be best to manage each driver individually, but that is difficult as there isn't always a lot of information available about each one and digging takes time and may not reveal anything. I need to be on W10 for other software, so reverting isn't really an option unfortunately. I thought of that too, my month isn't up yet. I have some questions about reverting, but I'll need to see if there is a different forum for that. I am afraid reveting wilnot be a clean process and I end up having to reinstall. I don't have media, had to buy a W7 license just to upgrade to W10. And I would have to get another W10 laptop, which isn't an immediate option.

    Although you haven't explicitly stated it, I'm assuming there is no information to be had from the minidumps or other logs identifying either the line of code (e.g. what it is doing) or which driver/service is causing the issue? I had hoped, but wasn't counting on it. If you have any other debugging tips that would be great. In the meantime I guess I'll have to keep digging into which driver/service it is and hope I can find it, and that it is not critical. Fortunately it is just on sleep/hibernate/poweroff, and the machine is stable while running.

    One other last thought, I haven't seen any signs of any HW issue and you haven't mentioned it. Since it can be modulated by super restricted safe mode and 100% of the time not in that configuration, I am pretty sure this is a software/driver issue of some kind. Just mentioning it in case you did see any signs of HW issue in any of the logs that I might have missed.

    thanks...
      My System SpecsSystem Spec


  10. Joined : Jun 2015
    Posts : 10,902
    Windows 10 Pro / Windows 10 TP / Windows 8.1 Pro / Windows 7 Pro
       29 Dec 2015 #10

    Most likely the main causes are the outdated drivers, some are 9 years old.
    Some you can update by updating programs or reinstalling programs like Malwarebytes, but others are drivers your manufacturer provides.

    You can't really fix the problem for Windows 10 due to outdated drivers, I can show you what drivers are outdated but I can't do much more.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec


 
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