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  1.    12 Feb 2017 #1
    Join Date : Feb 2017
    Posts : 8
    Windows 10 64-bit

    VSS / System Restore Points not working


    I tried to run Casper 10 Backup yesterday and it returned errors about VSS timeouts. Since then, I have been trying everything I can think of to get it working, but nothing has worked. Also, in the process, I discovered that although system protection is switched on for my C drive, if I try to create a restore point, the create dialogue just stays on screen but nothing else happens (I eventually have to use Task Manager to shut it down). Also, VSS says that it is running in the services list, as are the two other services it depends on. This is what I have tried so far:-

    1. Running repairs using the tweaking.com repair tool.
    2. Using DISM.
    3. Tried a different disc image backup program (Active Disk Image) - that also fails.
    4. Tried running a backup in safe mode - that also fails.
    5. Tried running with a clean boot - that also fails.
    6. Tried switching off and on system protection - restore point still fails to create.
    7. Tried turning off my (Webroot) antivirus - backup still fails, as does restore point creation.

    I don't know whether this is just a coincidence or not, but I only noticed these problems after trying the new Acronis True Image 2017 program (but that was backing up to the cloud, so maybe that's why that didn't throw up any errors). I don't know what else to try.
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  2.    12 Feb 2017 #2
    Join Date : Aug 2015
    Posts : 577
    Win10 & Win7

    Hi and welcome to the forum. I had the same problem a few weeks ago. I had Acronis 2015 installed and then I installed Macrium backup as well. Both were working fine. Then I decided to uninstall Acronis using thier Cleanup Tool. That killed VSS. What I ended up doing was restoring my system from a full image backup that I had made before I used the Cleanup Tool. Then I uninstalled Acronis the normal way (without the Cleanup Tool) and that left VSS intact. Do you have a backup that you can use to restore your system to a state where VSS was working? Have you tried uninstalling both Casper and Acronis?
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  3.    12 Feb 2017 #3
    Join Date : Feb 2017
    Posts : 8
    Windows 10 64-bit
    Thread Starter

    Thanks for responding to my message so quick.

    From what you say, it could be that Acronis is the cause of this then as I had to use the cleanup tool as well, after the standard uninstallation failed. I've just put the Acronis program back on to see if it will back up locally, but before I try to unistall it again, I'll check to see if the VSS is working. Interestingly, I had installed the trial version of Acronis a few days earlier and that had unistalled without any error messages.

    Regarding backups, unfortunately I have deleted them all, so I guess I'm stuffed if I can't figure out a way to resolve this problem.
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  4.    12 Feb 2017 #4
    Join Date : Aug 2015
    Posts : 577
    Win10 & Win7

    Sorry to hear that you used the Cleanup Tool. I'm sure that it kills VSS since we have both experience the same issue. Since you don't have a backup from which to restore from I'm thinking that you will need to do an inplace upgrade to restore VSS and possibly other services. An inplace upgrade will keep all of your apps and data in place. There is a tutorial on the forum for that. You should back up all your data just in case. When you get everything working again you need to start making full image backups especially before you make major changes to your system. I suggest Macrium Free. It's reliable and many people here on the forum use it.
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  5.    12 Feb 2017 #5
    Join Date : Jan 2014
    Posts : 1,393
    Windows 10 Pro (32-bit) 16299.15

    There are some registry tweaks suggested on the Macrium site which show how to delete things left behind by Acronis to make Macrium (and also I think System Restore) work - my first question would be whether there is a Registry entry at
    Code:
    HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\VSS\Providers\{24602736-bed9-4619-91b0-243447c6409c}
    VSS fails due to modification by 3rd party software - KnowledgeBase - Macrium Reflect Knowledgebase

    Although I wouldn't go deleting Registry keys just yet.

    Also, does this help? It's about an older version of Acronis but may give you somewhere to look? And it may help to allow Acronis to coexist.
    Acronis Backup: Using Microsoft VSS instead of Acronis VSS | Knowledge Base
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  6.    12 Feb 2017 #6
    Join Date : Feb 2017
    Posts : 8
    Windows 10 64-bit
    Thread Starter

    OK, thanks, I'll have a look at that, possible tomorrow as I'm getting a bit fed up with fighting with my computer today. One interesting thing though, the Acronis program is currently running and seems to be creating a local disc image backup without any problems, so at least I should have some sort of backup if things go pear-shaped later. I'll have a quick look at the registry keys later today and possible check to see if the VSS/system protection restore points thingy is working or not while I have Acronis on my PC. Many thanks for all the help suggestions so far.
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  7.    12 Feb 2017 #7
    Join Date : Feb 2017
    Posts : 8
    Windows 10 64-bit
    Thread Starter

    Well, this is very strange. After uninstalling my Webroot Secure Anywhere Premium in preparation for a Windows inplace upgrade, not only is the Acronis program working properly but I can now create system restore points as well. So it would appear that there was a conflict between Webroot and something else on my system (I have the same Webroot on a Windows 10 Tablet and that hasn't shown the same problems, but I may replace it with something else just in case). Not sure whether to go for Norton or Kaspersky though (I have a little remaining subscription on both of those).
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  8.    12 Feb 2017 #8
    Join Date : Aug 2015
    Posts : 577
    Win10 & Win7

    Quote Originally Posted by TheLyppardMan View Post
    Well, this is very strange. After uninstalling my Webroot Secure Anywhere Premium in preparation for a Windows inplace upgrade, not only is the Acronis program working properly but I can now create system restore points as well. So it would appear that there was a conflict between Webroot and something else on my system (I have the same Webroot on a Windows 10 Tablet and that hasn't shown the same problems, but I may replace it with something else just in case). Not sure whether to go for Norton or Kaspersky though (I have a little remaining subscription on both of those).
    Great news. I'm glad you got it worked out without an in-place upgrade although an in-place upgrade is far less difficult than a fresh install. Be sure to mark this thread as "solved" to help others who might have the same problem.
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  9.    15 Feb 2017 #9

    Hi folks

    This doesn't help your immediate problem but in future when taking Backups / making restores I'd suggest using the bootable standalone version of Macrium -- doesn't need to hose up VSS as there's no need essentially to "Lock partitions".

    IMO it's never a good idea to take full system backups from within a running system. Data is another issue - usually no problem there - but using an OS while backing it up doesn't sound very sensible to me. These days if you've installed the OS on its own SSD / partition (and it's always a good idea to do that) you should be able to back up your whole system in 15 - 30 mins (max) - so go and have a beer / coffee etc etc while backup working.

    I simply use the free version of Macrium to backup Windows -- it can load things like RAID drivers if you need them too --you only need to do that once when creating the stand alone backup tool.

    Cheers
    jimbo
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  10.    15 Feb 2017 #10
    Join Date : Aug 2015
    Posts : 577
    Win10 & Win7

    Quote Originally Posted by jimbo45 View Post
    Hi folks

    This doesn't help your immediate problem but in future when taking Backups / making restores I'd suggest using the bootable standalone version of Macrium -- doesn't need to hose up VSS as there's no need essentially to "Lock partitions".

    IMO it's never a good idea to take full system backups from within a running system. Data is another issue - usually no problem there - but using an OS while backing it up doesn't sound very sensible to me. These days if you've installed the OS on its own SSD / partition (and it's always a good idea to do that) you should be able to back up your whole system in 15 - 30 mins (max) - so go and have a beer / coffee etc etc while backup working.

    I simply use the free version of Macrium to backup Windows -- it can load things like RAID drivers if you need them too --you only need to do that once when creating the stand alone backup tool.

    Cheers
    jimbo
    Hi jimbo45,
    I agree with your advice about separating data from the OS but the vast majority of users will never have a problem backing up from within the OS. Over many years, I've had only one problem with VSS and that was when I used the Acronis Cleanup tool after I'd installed Macrium without first uninstalling Acronis. Clearly not the brightest thing to do and I paid for it.

    I think the bigger issue is that running any backup from a bootable disk tends to result in users running fewer (differential or incremental) backups. Facing the hassle of rebooting to a USB stick just to run a backup at the end of a computing session often results in me putting of the backup until the next session and I bet I'm not alone in wanting to avoid any extra hassles. On the other hand running a quick differential backup at the end of the day is something I can live with. I guess in the end its up to each person to develop a game plan that balances convenience and protection and that they'll stick with.
    Bob
      My ComputerSystem Spec

 
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