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  1.    04 Mar 2017 #141
    Join Date : Oct 2016
    Posts : 398
    Win10 Home x64 - 1703

    Ok ... Here's my observations.

    When the System Restore issue first appeared, renaming/deleting the 'WindowsApps' folder and doing a System Restore before 2-16 was found to fix it (credit to those who discovered this ... ). General consensus is, it's the 'Get Office' app which was updated on 2-16 and it's this update that broke System Restore.
    Note: I don't know of any other apps causing issues with System Restore.
    Note: 2-16 is the date that I think 'Get Office' app was first updated.

    Yes, the rename/delete the 'WindowsApps' folder and System Restore before 2-16 should work. If you go this route, do NOT just delete the 'WindowsApps' folder and reboot. It will NOT be recreated. System Restore is what restores the 'WindowsApps' folder. Disconnect from the internet to make sure the 'Get Office' app does NOT get updated after you do the System Restore. Once you've done the System Restore ... Un-install the 'Get Office' app and/or use the link below to make sure it doesn't get updated.

    This has worked for me and is a bit simplier ... un-install the 'Get Office' app, if the following 2 folders don't get deleted from the 'WindowsApps' folder, YOU have to delete them before System Restore will work.

    'Microsoft.MicrosoftOfficeHub_2017.210.251.0_neutral_~_8wekyb3d8bbwe'
    'Microsoft.MicrosoftOfficeHub_17.7909.7600.0_x64__8wekyb3d8bbwe'

    Note: Deleting those 2 folders can be a PITA.
    Note: I have commands that will remove the 'Get Office' app and delete those 2 folders.
    Note: I'll only post the commands if someone request them.

    Once those 2 folders are deleted, System Restore should work again. You should be able to create restore points and use them going forward. Obviously you won't be able to use any old restore points. At-least the ones from around 2-16, until you've done the fix.

    After you un-install the 'Get Office' app it shouldn't get re-installed automatically. However, since it's a Provisioned App, meaning it gets installed and updated by default on a clean install, when a new user is added to the system and possibly on a CU, but hopefully M$ will fix the issue before the next CU ... lol

    Note: This seems to be the best way to make sure 'Get Office' app doesn't get re-installed.
    A tweak to turn off automatically installing suggested apps in Windows 10 - Winaero
    Last edited by Eagle51; 04 Mar 2017 at 14:45.
      My ComputersSystem Spec
  2.    04 Mar 2017 #142
    Join Date : Jan 2016
    Posts : 109
    WINDOWS 10 PRO

    Quote Originally Posted by SimonFastEddy View Post
    Simon FastEddy says I am listening. Hello SoFine409 and say Meeow to the cat.

    Stick with kitpzyxmsir....Thank you for the clarification.....Yes! From the start of the Windows 10 installation on your computer from the media creation tool, to the end of the installation refinements (to its custom build) was 2 days, was what I had meant to say. I use a printed procedure 20 pages in length.
    SimonFastEddy, Good day,

    Like I said, I can relate. Basically, I also chronologically document my reinstall procedure. Not quite 20 pages. Maybe five. I've done the reinstall so many times I can pretty do much all my personal settings alterations by rote, so the document mainly consists of a sequential history in shorthand of each image backup as it is constructed and saved/backed up. It also includes a kind of "to do" list of things I haven't already accomplished, like workarounds for some of Windows 10 bugs/odd behavior, or questions about things I observe and am curious about improving, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by SimonFastEddy View Post
    As kitpzyxmir says....use an external HDD to save that initial image...34 well spent..I use a Toshiba 500 GB Canvio Basics. It only takes 10 minutes to save the initial image. It takes about 40 minutes for a full build of some 32 Desktop icons to save to Ext HDD and you will be able to save about 8 images
    I have a slightly different approach. with the luxury of two, 1 tb internal SSD's which are mirror images of each other. Each SSD is partitioned. In my case, I find a 50g partition it more that adequate for the operating system by itself. The rest of the SSD is devoted to data storage. I try to use portable applications whenever I can, "installed" (located) as it were on the data partition. This is convenient and efficient for several reasons. IMO, including data in a backup image just doesn't make sense for obvious reasons if you have the option/resources to do otherwise. I use a data backup program (SyncBackFree) to make incremental, easily accessible data backups to my second SSD and elsewhere any time in a matter of seconds.

    It keeps the OS and the OS backup image as small as possible. When you backup/restore an image, the smaller the image, the shorter the time, and it minimizes the necessity to update things before you start to "rebuild" the image.

    I don't install any non portable applications on the OS partition until about my third image, If either of the first 2 images need to be restored, they're pretty much ready to go as-is, unless in the interim I have run across a small tweak I want to add to either one.

    The external HDD is stlll a good idea as a first option, and even better as a second or third. Multiple backup options are smart and insure safety against permanent data loss, especially with critical data.

    40 minutes is a long time. Maybe due to the fact it is being backed up to an external device, or the size of the image backup. I just completed the sixth of seven backups I have planned. It's about 15g. Takes 8-10 minutes to backup/restore.

    I believe this type of method may have also contributed to solving your Profile corruption difficulty. Did you uitiilize Macrium boot recovery procedures? Macrium has the option of "Adding recovery boot menu options". As such, when you reboot the computer, you are presented with the extra boot option of choosing to enter the Macrium recovery environment rather than the Windows environment, without the need of a Macrium recovery disk or USB drive (of course, you can also use those options if you like). It's also a faster option that the hard media choices. Even in that scenario, I dont know if the eternal HDD would be recognized, but since I have my images stored on an internal storage device on a partition separate from the OS, the Macrium restore option allows me to navigate to and select the image I prefer, and complete the restore process from there. In a matter of minutes I'm back up and running like nothing ever happened.

    I do use Windows 10 Pro, but under the circumstances, I don't see why you couldn't do the same things with Windows 10 Home.

    Quote Originally Posted by SimonFastEddy View Post
    I use Windows 10 Pro 64 bit...it is a pleasant tool because it networks easily and has a This PC that works and it handles documents well. I hate Home to blazes...I have just ordered Windows 7 Pro 32 bit from ebay as a backup for this difficuly Dell GX620 Windows 10 Home machine.
    For those who can afford it, a wise move IMO. And all the more incentive for a second internal HDD with Win 7 installed and dual boot options (if it won't void your computer warranty). Probably the most ideal setup of all. Windows 10 gets crazy on you (like our current System Restore example), just reboot to Windows 7, the more reliable and by default less intrusive of the two.

    Quote Originally Posted by SimonFastEddy View Post
    If kitpzyxmsir would like to type out a Standard Operating Procedure (SOP) in due course, he will deserve (but not get) a knighthood or a statue in Trafalgar Square
    Put in a good word for me. You never know
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  3.    04 Mar 2017 #143
    Join Date : Jan 2016
    Posts : 109
    WINDOWS 10 PRO

    Quote Originally Posted by Eagle51 View Post
    Ok ... Here's my observations.
    Thanks for the confirmation. All's well that ends well...kinda, no thanks to you know who.
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  4.    04 Mar 2017 #144
    Join Date : Aug 2015
    Posts : 571
    Win10 & Win7

    Quote Originally Posted by Eagle51 View Post
    Ok ... Here's my observations.

    When the System Restore issue first appeared, renaming/deleting the 'WindowsApps' folder and doing a System Restore before 2-16 was found to fix it (credit to those who discovered this ... ). General consensus is, it's the 'Get Office' app which was updated on 2-16 and it's this update that broke System Restore.
    Note: I don't know of any other apps causing issues with System Restore.
    Note: 2-16 is the date that I think 'Get Office' app was first updated.

    Yes, the rename/delete the 'WindowsApps' folder and System Restore before 2-16 should work. If you go this route, do NOT just delete the 'WindowsApps' folder and reboot. It will NOT be recreated. System Restore is what restores the 'WindowsApps' folder. Disconnect from the internet to make sure the 'Get Office' app does NOT get updated after you do the System Restore. Once you've done the System Restore ... Un-install the 'Get Office' app and/or use the link below to make sure it doesn't get updated.

    This has worked for me and is a bit simplier ... un-install the 'Get Office' app, if the following 2 folders don't get deleted from the 'WindowsApps' folder, YOU have to delete them before System Restore will work.

    'Microsoft.MicrosoftOfficeHub_2017.210.251.0_neutral_~_8wekyb3d8bbwe'
    'Microsoft.MicrosoftOfficeHub_17.7909.7600.0_x64__8wekyb3d8bbwe'

    Note: Deleting those 2 folders can be a PITA.
    Note: I have commands that will remove the 'Get Office' app and delete those 2 folders.
    Note: I'll only post the commands if someone request them.

    Once those 2 folders are deleted, System Restore should work again. You should be able to create restore points and use them going forward. Obviously you won't be able to use any old restore points. At-least the ones from around 2-16, until you've done the fix.

    After you un-install the 'Get Office' app it shouldn't get re-installed automatically. However, since it's a Provisioned App, meaning it gets installed and updated by default on a clean install, when a new user is added to the system and possibly on a CU, but hopefully M$ will fix the issue before the next CU ... lol

    Note: This seems to be the best way to make sure 'Get Office' app doesn't get re-installed.
    A tweak to turn off automatically installing suggested apps in Windows 10 - Winaero
    Hi Eagle51, Could you please post your code for deleting:
    'Microsoft.MicrosoftOfficeHub_2017.210.251.0_neutral_~_8wekyb3d8bbwe'
    'Microsoft.MicrosoftOfficeHub_17.7909.7600.0_x64__8wekyb3d8bbwe'
    Its kind of a pain to bust the advanced security settings by taking ownership and control of all the files in WindowsApps just to delete those two packages. Restoring the security settings never restores the TrustedInstaller ownership and that make me very uneasy about possible future problems.

    As far as MS fixing this, it looks like a simple fix for them to get create a patch to take down these two packages. When might be more difficult for them would be to find out why these two packages broke system restore.
    Bob
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  5.    04 Mar 2017 #145
    Join Date : Oct 2016
    Posts : 398
    Win10 Home x64 - 1703

    My 'Get Office" app fix for System Restore ... USE AT YOUR OWN RISK ...

    'Microsoft.MicrosoftOfficeHub_2017.210.251.0_neutral_~_8wekyb3d8bbwe'
    'Microsoft.MicrosoftOfficeHub_17.7909.7600.0_x64__8wekyb3d8bbwe'

    Open Command Prompt as Admin
    Use the commands below to un-install the 'Get Office' app and remove the 2 leftover folders.

    ============================================================

    powershell -Command "Remove-AppxPackage Microsoft.MicrosoftOfficeHub_2017.210.251.0_neutral_~_8wekyb3d8bbwe"

    takeown /f "C:\Program Files\WindowsApps\Microsoft.MicrosoftOfficeHub_2017.210.251.0_neutral_~_8wekyb3d8bbwe" /r

    icacls "C:\Program Files\WindowsApps\Microsoft.MicrosoftOfficeHub_2017.210.251.0_neutral_~_8wekyb3d8bbwe" /grant "%USERNAME%":F /t

    icacls "C:\Program Files\WindowsApps\Microsoft.MicrosoftOfficeHub_2017.210.251.0_neutral_~_8wekyb3d8bbwe" /inheritance:r /t

    rmdir "C:\Program Files\WindowsApps\Microsoft.MicrosoftOfficeHub_2017.210.251.0_neutral_~_8wekyb3d8bbwe" /s /q

    takeown /f "C:\Program Files\WindowsApps\Microsoft.MicrosoftOfficeHub_17.7909.7600.0_x64__8wekyb3d8bbwe" /r

    icacls "C:\Program Files\WindowsApps\Microsoft.MicrosoftOfficeHub_17.7909.7600.0_x64__8wekyb3d8bbwe" /grant "%USERNAME%":F /t

    icacls "C:\Program Files\WindowsApps\Microsoft.MicrosoftOfficeHub_17.7909.7600.0_x64__8wekyb3d8bbwe" /inheritance:r /t

    rmdir "C:\Program Files\WindowsApps\Microsoft.MicrosoftOfficeHub_17.7909.7600.0_x64__8wekyb3d8bbwe" /s /q

    ========================================================================

    Note: Check the 'WindowsApps' folder and make sure those 2 folder are gone, before trying to use System Restore.
      My ComputersSystem Spec
  6.    04 Mar 2017 #146
    Join Date : Aug 2015
    Posts : 571
    Win10 & Win7

    Quote Originally Posted by Eagle51 View Post
    My 'Get Office" app fix for System Restore ... USE AT YOUR OWN RISK ...

    'Microsoft.MicrosoftOfficeHub_2017.210.251.0_neutral_~_8wekyb3d8bbwe'
    'Microsoft.MicrosoftOfficeHub_17.7909.7600.0_x64__8wekyb3d8bbwe'

    Open Command Prompt as Admin
    Use the commands below to un-install the 'Get Office' app and remove the 2 leftover folders.

    ============================================================

    powershell -Command "Remove-AppxPackage Microsoft.MicrosoftOfficeHub_2017.210.251.0_neutral_~_8wekyb3d8bbwe"

    takeown /f "C:\Program Files\WindowsApps\Microsoft.MicrosoftOfficeHub_2017.210.251.0_neutral_~_8wekyb3d8bbwe" /r

    icacls "C:\Program Files\WindowsApps\Microsoft.MicrosoftOfficeHub_2017.210.251.0_neutral_~_8wekyb3d8bbwe" /grant "%USERNAME%":F /t

    icacls "C:\Program Files\WindowsApps\Microsoft.MicrosoftOfficeHub_2017.210.251.0_neutral_~_8wekyb3d8bbwe" /inheritance:r /t

    rmdir "C:\Program Files\WindowsApps\Microsoft.MicrosoftOfficeHub_2017.210.251.0_neutral_~_8wekyb3d8bbwe" /s /q

    takeown /f "C:\Program Files\WindowsApps\Microsoft.MicrosoftOfficeHub_17.7909.7600.0_x64__8wekyb3d8bbwe" /r

    icacls "C:\Program Files\WindowsApps\Microsoft.MicrosoftOfficeHub_17.7909.7600.0_x64__8wekyb3d8bbwe" /grant "%USERNAME%":F /t

    icacls "C:\Program Files\WindowsApps\Microsoft.MicrosoftOfficeHub_17.7909.7600.0_x64__8wekyb3d8bbwe" /inheritance:r /t

    rmdir "C:\Program Files\WindowsApps\Microsoft.MicrosoftOfficeHub_17.7909.7600.0_x64__8wekyb3d8bbwe" /s /q

    ========================================================================

    Note: Check the 'WindowsApps' folder and make sure those 2 folder are gone, before trying to use System Restore.
    Thanks Eagle51,
    I was using the brute force approach with the Commend Prompt (Admin) from the WindowsApps folder level. Your powershell commends are much more direct and they leave the security permissions of WindowsApps intact. Thanks much for your help.
    Bob
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  7.    04 Mar 2017 #147
    Join Date : Jan 2016
    Posts : 109
    WINDOWS 10 PRO

    After all of this nonsense, and figuring I was home free, I tried a system restore about 1 hour ago.

    It failed. Same error message.

    I had a backup image I made yesterday with System Restore working fine. I had not personally made any OS changes of any kind since the image was created.

    Before restoring, I checked Windows Update. KB3213986 was there, a 1607 cumulative update, which I installed.

    System Restore fixed.

    Out of curiosity, I restored the image from yesterday. System Restore was working,

    Ran wndows update for that image and saved it. Tested System Restore 3 times, no problems so far.

    So what happened between yesterday and today? Maybe some kind of silent update?

    But it looks like KB3213986 is responsible for the repair. Maybe. I think. Who knows. Confused as ever.
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  8.    04 Mar 2017 #148
    Join Date : Oct 2016
    Posts : 398
    Win10 Home x64 - 1703

    Home 10 x64 @ ver. 14393.726

    KB3213986 on 1-10-2017
    KB3211320 on 1-25-2017
    KB3216755 on 1-29-2017

    Didn't realize there was that much difference in Pro and Home, as far updates go. I'm assuming your initial restore wasn't all the way back in Jan ... lol
      My ComputersSystem Spec
  9.    04 Mar 2017 #149
    Join Date : Jan 2016
    Posts : 109
    WINDOWS 10 PRO

    Quote Originally Posted by Eagle51 View Post
    Home 10 x64 @ ver. 14393.726

    KB3213986 on 1-10-2017
    KB3211320 on 1-25-2017
    KB3216755 on 1-29-2017

    Didn't realize there was that much difference in Pro and Home, as far updates go. I'm assuming your initial restore wasn't all the way back in Jan ... lol
    I thought KB3213986 looked familiar.

    Quote Originally Posted by glivo View Post
    At this point I am done with it. My testing shows that:

    It is update KB3213986 that causes the problem to occur in the first instance.
    This is weird. I'm not set up for deferred updates, which would be the only explanation that might explain it (I think?? I dunno). Besides, When that was posted, 3 days ago, I went to look at the update history from my fresh install that was restored from a 2/21 Macrium backup.

    KB3213986 was there, but System restore was working, so I knew KB3213986 was not the cause of the problem.

    The image I saved yesterday is the fifth in a succession of progressively refined/customized images I have created with that fresh install as the foundation. Before every image backup, I make sure windows update is current.

    All I can say for sure is that, for the moment, System Restore is working. Ask me 2 minutes from now I might have another story to tell you
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  10.    04 Mar 2017 #150
    Join Date : Aug 2015
    Posts : 571
    Win10 & Win7

    Quote Originally Posted by kitpzyxmsir View Post
    I thought KB3213986 looked familiar.



    This is weird. I'm not set up for deferred updates, which would be the only explanation that might explain it (I think?? I dunno). Besides, When that was posted, 3 days ago, I went to look at the update history from my fresh install that was restored from a 2/21 Macrium backup.

    KB3213986 was there, but System restore was working, so I knew KB3213986 was not the cause of the problem.

    The image I saved yesterday is the fifth in a succession of progressively refined/customized images I have created with that fresh install as the foundation. Before every image backup, I make sure windows update is current.

    All I can say for sure is that, for the moment, System Restore is working. Ask me 2 minutes from now I might have another story to tell you
    This article says KB3213986 breaks system restore on SOME SYSTEMS. This is an interesting read.
    Windows 10 update KB 3213986 triggers System Restore error 0x80070091 | InfoWorld
    Check out the info in the DETAILED EXPLANATION link in the above post. Any of it sound familiar?
      My ComputerSystem Spec

 
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